House Select Committee Hearings on Jan. 6 (1 Viewer)

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    This is how Ruby Freeman became a target: People were obsessively watching the feed from the Georgia voting process because Trump told them to do so and to discover the fraud.



     
    BullSheetBuddha said:
    From the above article:

    "Cheney implored people watching at home to "focus on the evidence. Don't be distracted by politics. This is serious. We can't allow America to become a nation of conspiracies and thug violence."

    But there's little evidence any of this will change most conservatives' minds. Trump supporters have long been selling themselves a narrative of Trump that they have internalized. That has become nearly impossible to pierce, especially with facts.

    Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling got to this point well. He noted that he argued with family members who were believing what Trump was telling them about a stolen election that wasn't.

    "The problem you have is you're getting into people's hearts," Sterling said.

    He relayed a story about a lawyer he knew sympathetic to Trump. Sterling took him through allegations they investigated and showed him, one by one, that they didn't stand up to scrutiny.

    "I just know in my heart that they cheated," Sterling said was the lawyer's response. "And so, once you get past the heart, the facts don't matter as much."

    When facts don't matter, that's a scary place to be."


    Yes, we're in a scary place.
    Click to expand...

    How many voting laws have been passed or changed because some people feel there’s massive fraud?
    ========================


    …….Another kind of the ongoing threat to democracy comes from New Mexico, where the state Supreme Court was compelled to order county commissioners in rural Otero County to certify their June 7 primary election.

    Commissioner Couy Griffin, a Republican who was sentenced last week for trespassing at the Capitol on Jan. 6, refused to certify the results not because of evidence of fraud but because of “gut feeling and intuition.”

    This is the Trump standard: It doesn’t matter if there is zero evidence of fraud. Sheer delusion is sufficient to violate election laws……

     
    BullSheetBuddha said:
    From the above article:

    "Cheney implored people watching at home to "focus on the evidence. Don't be distracted by politics. This is serious. We can't allow America to become a nation of conspiracies and thug violence."

    But there's little evidence any of this will change most conservatives' minds. Trump supporters have long been selling themselves a narrative of Trump that they have internalized. That has become nearly impossible to pierce, especially with facts.

    Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling got to this point well. He noted that he argued with family members who were believing what Trump was telling them about a stolen election that wasn't.

    "The problem you have is you're getting into people's hearts," Sterling said.

    He relayed a story about a lawyer he knew sympathetic to Trump. Sterling took him through allegations they investigated and showed him, one by one, that they didn't stand up to scrutiny.

    "I just know in my heart that they cheated," Sterling said was the lawyer's response. "And so, once you get past the heart, the facts don't matter as much."

    When facts don't matter, that's a scary place to be."


    Yes, we're in a scary place.
    Click to expand...

    I have to disagree with Sterling here. This isn't about people's "heart" and we shouldn't be coddling people who "sincerely believe in the the election fraud" by claiming that it's because of their heart.

    This is about mass delusion and/or people following a megalomaniac to force a specific world view on the rest of society. That is how it should be framed, not the sympathetic "it's about the heart". That's BS and continuing to coddle these people with soft language so that they don't feel so bad and we don't ostracize them is only making things worse. We need to ostracize the fork out of this mindset to eventually get back to where more people on the right are living in reality and listening to facts to form their opinions.

    We also need to stop treating right wing "news" as news. It's not news whether it's from Fox, Newsmax, OWN, NY Post or conservative radio, it's all propaganda. Propaganda is destroying our country and it needs to be treated as an enemy.
     
    Last edited:
    GrandAdmiral said:
    That testimony was tough to watch. Pisses me off Americans were put through this crap. This is far worse than Watergate and that is why the DOJ has to get Trump indicted.
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    Saintamaniac said:
    Trump and every government official who helped or participated in this coup MUST go to jail for the good of this country now and for its future. If violence erupts as a result of Trump being indicted, it should be met with force and extreme prejudice.
    Click to expand...

    Anything short of above and we have failed as a nation….IMO…..
     
    coldseat said:
    I have to disagree with Sterling here. This isn't about people's "heart" and we shouldn't be coddling people who "sincerely believe in the the election fraud" by claiming that it's because of their heart.

    This is about mass delusion and/or people following a megalomaniac to force a specific world view on the rest of society. That is how it should be framed, not the sympathetic "it's about the heart". That's BS and continuing to coddle these people with soft language so that they don't feel so bad and we don't ostracize them is only making things worse. We need to ostracize the fork out of this mindset to eventually get back to where more people on the right are living in reality and listening to facts to form their opinions.

    We also need to stop treating right wing "news" as news. It's not news whether it's from Fox, Newsmax, OWN, NY Post or conservative radio, it's all propaganda. Propaganda is destroying our country and it needs to be treated as an enemy.
    Click to expand...
    I agree with your take, but I don't agree with how you framed Sterling's response. He wasn't coddling at all. What he was saying is this is what he faced when talking with family members and a fellow attorney. He's simply pointing out the cognitive dissonance of an attorney who admitted the evidence was clear, but his heart/feelings wouldn't be changed. He wasn't excusing it, he was illustrating how effective the Trumpian messaging was because they make sheet up then say well, regardless of the evidence Trump has a right to dispute the election regardless and so they agree with Trump because they can't live with the alternative of believing Democrats because the messaging that Democrats are "evil" started decades ago and a lot of people are still stuck on that.

    It's legitimately hard to talk to a family member who can't see past their hatred for the other party. That's why their hearts are where they are. We should fight that, yes, but easier said than done.
     
    DaveXA said:
    I agree with your take, but I don't agree with how you framed Sterling's response. He wasn't coddling at all. What he was saying is this is what he faced when talking with family members and a fellow attorney. He's simply pointing out the cognitive dissonance of an attorney who admitted the evidence was clear, but his heart/feelings wouldn't be changed. He wasn't excusing it, he was illustrating how effective the Trumpian messaging was because they make sheet up then say well, regardless of the evidence Trump has a right to dispute the election regardless and so they agree with Trump because they can't live with the alternative of believing Democrats because the messaging that Democrats are "evil" started decades ago and a lot of people are still stuck on that.

    It's legitimately hard to talk to a family member who can't see past their hatred for the other party. That's why their hearts are where they are. We should fight that, yes, but easier said than done.
    Click to expand...

    That is fair. I just think the framing of "that's what they truly believe" or "that's what's in their hearts" is really damaging because it almost justifies the resulting actions, even if that is not what is intended. I mean, if someone "truly" believes something, their actions might be wrong, but I can they be "guilty of being wrong". I'm not sure if I'm really making my point clearly but it's almost a tacit acceptance of the persons actions because of how truly they believe them. I hear many in the media apply this framing to both the Republican voters and politicians, and I hear many people apply to family and friends.
     
    GrandAdmiral said:
    In the story on CNN itself, they said he was being pushed to run as an independent. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
    Click to expand...

    Wood also clerked for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Most recently, Wood was general counsel for US Chamber of Commerce.
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    I wonder if he was getting all of those emails from Ginni Thomas on the stolen election that she was sending out to her husbands law clerks?
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    How many voting laws have been passed or changed because some people feel there’s massive fraud?
    Click to expand...

    I can answer that

    www.brennancenter.org

    Voting Laws Roundup: May 2022

    This year, state lawmakers have focused on enacting election interference legislation, with six states already passing nine laws that threaten to undermine voters' confidence in the security of elections.
    www.brennancenter.org www.brennancenter.org

    As of May 4, at least 34 bills with restrictive provisions are moving through 11 state legislatures. Overall, lawmakers in 39 states have considered at least 393 restrictive bills for the 2022 legislative session. Since the beginning of 2021, 18 states have passed 34 restrictive voting laws, which can disproportionately affect voters of color.

    At the same time, Arizona, Connecticut, New York, and Oregon enacted five laws that expand access to the vote. Legislation is categorized as expansive if it would make it easier for eligible Americans to register, stay on the rolls, and/or vote as compared to existing state law. As of May 4, at least 48 bills with expansive provisions are moving through 16 state legislatures and the DC City Council. Overall, lawmakers in 44 states and Washington, DC, have considered at least 596 expansive bills for the 2022 legislative session.
     
    coldseat said:
    That is fair. I just think the framing of "that's what they truly believe" or "that's what's in their hearts" is really damaging because it almost justifies the resulting actions, even if that is not what is intended. I mean, if someone "truly" believes something, their actions might be wrong, but I can they be "guilty of being wrong". I'm not sure if I'm really making my point clearly but it's almost a tacit acceptance of the persons actions because of how truly they believe them. I hear many in the media apply this framing to both the Republican voters and politicians, and I hear many people apply to family and friends.
    Click to expand...

    Or just call them what they are….willfully ignorant idiots that are easily duped into cults and cult like behavior….and idiots come in all colors and work places….it’s not acceptable and if it isn’t Trump then it will be the next “great man sent by god” or some other such nonsense….
     
    On day three of the Jan. 6 select committee’s hearings into former president Donald Trump’s attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election, the committee continued inflicting heavy damage on Trump’s credibility.

    With three hearings down and about four to go, it’s now becoming easier to imagine that, at the end of these hearings, Trump might be reduced to a mere laughingstock, the emperor’s clothes having totally vanished.

    We are beginning to see why it’s not a good idea to mess with a 500-pound gorilla made up of 14 former federal prosecutors and nine lawmakers with a singular purpose and a united mission.

    After Thursday’s hearing, a clearer picture is developing about the flimsiness of the false election fraud scheme. No longer is it plausible that Trump might have believed that he won the election, nor that the “election fraud” claim was legitimate. The combination of evidence and sworn testimony from the last two hearings has sharply helped develop that picture.

    The most damning testimony has all come from inside the Trump campaign and the Trump White House: Trump’s own people. It makes a difference when people are under oath...........


     
    I have not heard any of this, about right wing praise of the movie
    =====================

    There’s a good reason “Top Gun: Maverick” has soared past $800 million in box-office receipts: It has Tom Cruise, mind-blowing aerial sequences and a rousing storyline.

    But according to many right-wing commentators, the actual reason it’s so popular is that it’s so conservative.

    Breitbart celebrated it as “a masculine, pro-American, stridently non-woke blockbuster.” The Daily Caller gushed: “‘Top Gun: Maverick’ Crushes The Box Office As Americans Crave Non-Woke Content.”

    Ben Shapiro praised the film for being patriotic and not “treating the military as either victims of mental health problems or people who are victimized by the evil American regime, or as imperialists themselves.”


    If you want more evidence that the right has lost the plot, this is it.

    For starters, while the hero of “Top Gun: Maverick” is an old, straight White guy doing patriotic deeds, his co-pilots reflect the diversity of the armed forces.

    By my count, they include two women, a Latino American, three Asian Americans (one of them a woman) and two African Americans.

    Black actors also portray a chief warrant officer and an admiral, among other characters.

    That’s a lot more diversity than in the original “Top Gun,” reflecting the changes in U.S. society and the U.S. military since 1986…..


     

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