Will “mass deportation” actually happen (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[SystemShock]

I agree with this. That's what's really at the heart of the overuse of H1B visas.

Not from my perspective. Even if education was free in the U.S., a U.S. corporation would prefer hiring someone on the other side of the world who's going to work for 1/4 of the salary a U.S. engineer would make and a sack of rice, on whatever days and hours of the week, and then maybe bring that person over for 1/2 the salary and not complain about the work schedule.

BTW, the sack of rice comment is not meant to be condescending... I don't know if they still do it, but Hewlett Packard used to give its Philippine employees sacks of rice for Christmas, and those were valued by the employees. Give a U.S. engineer a sack of rice for Christmas, or tell a U.S. NOC tech to work 11pm to 7am on New Year's Eve for the same hourly rate as 9-5 M-F, see what happens.

There are many other perks of hiring off-shore or near-shore... for example, in the U.S., when you leave your job, you usually give 15 days notice, even though you really don't have to; in India, you have to give 2 month's notice.

Of course, when you bring people over who are used to work in those conditions, by U.S. law you can't make them work in some of those conditions in the U.S., but you certainly get a much more flexible employee, who can be discarded when you are done with him without the HR hassle a U.S. citizen/resident would bring, as they usually (in my experience) they come as contractors. My last employer, by law (I was told this by HR) being a financial institution, contracts could not extend past 18 months... so disposable engineers.

Not long after the tech bubble burst and through the mortgage crisis, I saw many colleagues get laid off, and be given a choice: leave now, or leave in 2 months while you train your replacement in India/Singapore/Philippines. If someone is thinking of going into STEM, one has to take into consideration that you are competing with people around the world who are willing to work for much less than you and in less favorable conditions. For many, depending on the field they are considering, it may not be worth their while.

And one last thing: an H1B visa isn't really a substitute for immigration It's just a temporary permit to work somewhere. You can be kicked out when your job ends.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Rod Cross, the mayor of Toledo, Oregon, paused to pick up his mail in early December as he usually does while backing out of his driveway, but a hand-addressed envelope stopped him in his tracks.

The anonymous letter, titled “The brown roundup, part one,” warned that come January, the country would “commence the largest roundup of brown illegals in our history.”

It later detailed ways to help the deportation of “folks who you suspect are here in our country on an illegal basis” — including by taking down license plate numbers and sharing it with authorities, according to Cross, who read from the letter during a Toledo city council meeting Wednesday.

“I’m livid because I don’t know if history is just not getting taught anymore or if the memories of my father and his generation have just been wiped out of existence,” he said at the meeting. “But this is not America.”

The letter had also been sent to officials of other Oregon cities, including Coos Bay, North Bend and Lincoln City, all along the state’s coast, Cross said. In the days since, state and local officials have condemned the letter’s content, calling it a racist and offensive attempt to intimidate Oregon residents.

The state has joined the list of communities in the United States that in recent months have been the subject of anti-immigrant messaging, sometimes amplified by President-elect Donald Trump and his allies. Trump has pledged to carry out mass deportations after his January inauguration.

In a statement Friday, Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum (D) said “racist letter writing campaigns” had “no place” in the state.

“It is time to rise above these despicable tactics and demonstrate the true spirit of inclusivity and compassion that defines the Oregon way,” Rosenblum said……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/12/22/oregon-racist-letters-immigrants/

 

[Dragon]

The final part of the letter is particularly appalling. It essentially implies that people should be deported so their homes can be taken for little or no cost. Adding to the outrage, the letters are being sent anonymously, which only highlights the cowardice behind these actions.

 

[Lapaz]

I support legal immigration, not open borders that people can run across at will. What do you people not understand there are over 4 billion people in this world that can claim they are in hardship because 4,000,000,000+ people live in poverty and oppression if we took them all in we’d be a Third World country overnight like I said, I support legal immigration and those that look like Salma Hayek.

What border is open? You're repeating a talking point. The Biden administration is following the law, and added some restrictions via executive action, but those can be overturned by the courts. Legislation is what we "people" have said is needed, like the conservative legislation that was proposed by Lankford which would restrict LEGAL asylum claims. Republicans have sold the idea that there is an open border, but that isn't true, or at best very disengenous. It is a restrictive border, but the restrictions on asylum are too lenient. The alternatives available to the president without legislation are all bad. Congress needs to act.

 

[coldseat]

Not from my perspective. Even if education was free in the U.S., a U.S. corporation would prefer hiring someone on the other side of the world who's going to work for 1/4 of the salary a U.S. engineer would make and a sack of rice, on whatever days and hours of the week, and then maybe bring that person over for 1/2 the salary and not complain about the work schedule.

BTW, the sack of rice comment is not meant to be condescending... I don't know if they still do it, but Hewlett Packard used to give its Philippine employees sacks of rice for Christmas, and those were valued by the employees. Give a U.S. engineer a sack of rice for Christmas, or tell a U.S. NOC tech to work 11pm to 7am on New Year's Eve for the same hourly rate as 9-5 M-F, see what happens.

There are many other perks of hiring off-shore or near-shore... for example, in the U.S., when you leave your job, you usually give 15 days notice, even though you really don't have to; in India, you have to give 2 month's notice.

Of course, when you bring people over who are used to work in those conditions, by U.S. law you can't make them work in some of those conditions in the U.S., but you certainly get a much more flexible employee, who can be discarded when you are done with him without the HR hassle a U.S. citizen/resident would bring, as they usually (in my experience) they come as contractors. My last employer, by law (I was told this by HR) being a financial institution, contracts could not extend past 18 months... so disposable engineers.

Not long after the tech bubble burst and through the mortgage crisis, I saw many colleagues get laid off, and be given a choice: leave now, or leave in 2 months while you train your replacement in India/Singapore/Philippines. If someone is thinking of going into STEM, one has to take into consideration that you are competing with people around the world who are willing to work for much less than you and in less favorable conditions. For many, depending on the field they are considering, it may not be worth their while.

And one last thing: an H1B visa isn't really a substitute for immigration It's just a temporary permit to work somewhere. You can be kicked out when your job ends.

I have no doubt that your perspective is valid and true to some extent. There are certainly sectors in STEM careers where this is the case, but I don't believe it's like that universally. The overall unemployment rate for people with STEM degrees is something like 2% here in the US. So clearly there aren't engineers that are US citizens just sitting around not getting jobs because of H1B visas. Something like 20% of college graduates graduate with degrees in STEM fields here in the US, which is well below many Asian countries. If that number were something like 30% -35%, you would probably see a lot less use of H1B visas to find candidates to fill jobs.

They can't offshore all or even most engineering careers. It also takes a lot of money and company resources to train up an engineer (especially a new one out of college), so we are not as easily disposable or replaceable as workers in some other fields. Employees with H1B visas have to be trained up in the same way, there's no shortcut for experience and working knowledge in engineering. But if worker's in STEM fields are laid off or otherwise find themselves unemployed, I'm also going to guess that the amount of time required to find a replacement job is a lot less than in other fields.

 

[Dragon]

I have worked in STEM for 40 years, and in my opinion, the developments over the past decade show that, in some ways, you are both correct.

It is indeed more challenging for individuals working in the U.S. on a visa to change jobs compared to U.S. citizen engineers. While the high demand for skilled STEM professionals has led companies to actively recruit talent globally, the process is far more straightforward for U.S. citizens to switch to better opportunities. For immigrant workers on visas, the hiring company must first navigate the complexities of the work visa process, which can be time-consuming and costly. This added hurdle makes employees on visas less vulnerable to aggressive poaching by competitors.