Will “mass deportation” actually happen (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[bird]

They aren't going to do anything different than the deportations that already happen, just less humane to give the slobbering neanderthal cult some red meat. That has been their MO on a lot of things regarding immigration, do the same thing but make it less humane.

True. I also meant that farmers who utilize immigrants were told by Trump what he would do and they still voted for him.

 

[CoolBrees]

Well yeah.

See he won't deport "my" workers because he is taking about all of the bad ones. Gang members and the like. Not the good ones - hardworking, tax paying immigrants who raise my kids too.

Because if he was talking about the ones who work for me, that would make me culpable for the very problem I am complaining about.

And I don't like responsibility for my actions. I just want to be told it is going to be taken care of by a tough guy and that it is Mexico's fault. We smooth brained simpletons like nuance even less than we like logic.

 

[bird]

Well yeah.

See he won't deport "my" workers because he is taking about all of the bad ones. Gang members and the like. Not the good ones - hardworking, tax paying immigrants who raise my kids too.

Because if he was talking about the ones who work for me, that would make me culpable for the very problem I am complaining about.

And I don't like responsibility for my actions. I just want to be told it is going to be taken care of by a tough guy and that it is Mexico's fault. We smooth brained simpletons like nuance even less than we like logic.

Your smooth brained comment reminded me of dog videos my wife and I like to watch. When a dog is doing something goofy a voiceover comes on that says “You have a smooth brain. No ridges or lumps or valleys or bumps. All ideas slide off like a water slide.”

 

[Texan1211]

You can answer his post.

Which I did. Or didn't, my choice.

But I guess thinking isn't something you do much of.

You should stop guessing, you are horrible at it.

 

[DaveXA]

Which I did. Or didn't, my choice.

I'm gonna try one more time. No snark, no name calling or whatever. Just gonna ask relevant questions.

...
Trump and the mass deportation advocates are targeting the removal of many, many millions of people from America. The most common number you see is between 8 million and 12 million, although Trump has said it can be as high as 20 million. Currently the US processes about 350,000 deportations per year - and a large number of those are processed at or near the border, where the US immigration resources are concentrated.

If Trump were to attempt to deport the low end of the estimate - 8 million - during his term, you're talking about 2 million people each year. This is almost SIX times the current average. And because the program is going to focus on the interior of the country, it's going to require a realignment and redeployment of immigration agents throughout the country. Trump has said that he would deputize local authorities and certainly in many places they will be happy to help.

So in order to accomplish this very clearly described program, large numbers of federal and deputized local agents will be deployed into the interior with the mission of identifying and arresting illegals. Local jails and courts will be unable to handle these numbers - many are already at capacity on a day to day basis, and this program will see a large, new number of people needing to be processed. So they will have to be transported to detention centers to await their disposition, which will take some time. You cannot avoid this process.

And it's wildly foolish not realize that these newly deployed agents and local deputies will have to make arbitrary decisions about whether a given person has adequately shown enough proof of citizenship to avoid arrest - and certainly mistakes will be made. Identifying these large numbers will require investigations, relying at times on community informants and other local information. Some of the people will be in households where some of the people are undocumented/illegal and others are not. Many of the millions will be children. Many of the millions will be thinking they are going to a country they left when they were children and don't know at all.

There is no way to accomplish the kinds of numbers they're talking about without a massive new, institutionalized program. ...

...

So, legit question @Texan1211 how do propose Trump is going to deport 8 million people in 4 years when we barely have enough manpower to deport the approximately 350k people we are doing per year now? Do you think we have the resources or manpower to come close to 8 million in 4 years?

This is kind of one of those things where the politics of the situation, outstrip the realities.

There was a surge of border crossings early in Biden's presidency. And he did undo Trump's executive orders (i think his orders were illegal or just wrong, but they were aimed at slowing down border crossings). He also made comments that can reasonably be interpreted as more welcoming of asylum seekers (saying that the US could absorb 2 million asylum seekers). It's not unreasonable to assume that some people were motivate to try to exploit the asylum law provision.

However, the US economic recovery was certainly a factor in more people wanting to come here.

Biden also proposed on day 1 a border reform bill that would have improved processing of asylum seekers.

The US has never had an open border, and Biden has been on pace to meet or exceed Trump's deportation record. So, that's all stupid rhetoric.

There's clearly no "open border" as people are being turned away and many more deported throughout the country.

You've said it wouldn't matter if a bill passed. What would you actually propose that point the country of resolving the issues at the border?

 

[Texan1211]

So, legit question @Texan1211 how do propose Trump is going to deport 8 million people in 4 years when we barely have enough manpower to deport the approximately 350k people we are doing per year now? Do you think we have the resources or manpower to come close to 8 million in 4 years?

I never said how it could be done, if it can be done, or anything about Trump deporting millions. I think every single time law enforcement comes in contact with an illegal alien, they should be deported. No, I don't think Trump or anyone is going to go house to house searching for them. But we could do away with giving illegals IDs and drivers' licenses., do away with sanctuaries for illegal aliens, I a all for workplace raids to catch illegal aliens and for the employers to face stiff penalties.

 

[DaveXA]

I never said how it could be done, if it can be done, or anything about Trump deporting millions. I think every single time law enforcement comes in contact with an illegal alien, they should be deported. No, I don't think Trump or anyone is going to go house to house searching for them. But we could do away with giving illegals IDs and drivers' licenses., do away with sanctuaries for illegal aliens, I a all for workplace raids to catch illegal aliens and for the employers to face stiff penalties.

I realize you never said it, which is why I asked the question. It's a central point of the discussion in this thread. I'm interested in solutions and I don't think deporting millions of people is practical or even possible with the resources we have available. I do think the government should certainly deport those who have committed crimes, but I'm not sure deporting those who are productive in society is worth doing because they are actually bringing something to the table. There are jobs many of them are willing to do that many won't or can't do.

That said, I want to take a step back. How do you define an illegal alien? What is it that makes them such?

My wife is an immigrant and it obviously means a lot to me that she was able to come to the US via adoption and I would want others to experience that same opportunity she had. And yes, through the legal immigration process would be ideal, but our immigration system is broken and I believe it needs to be overhauled.

I have a soft spot for those who have face injustices and tragic situations. I've been through my share, although not anywhere near as bad as some. The unexplained hatred some people have really does baffle me.

 

[Texan1211]

How do you define an illegal alien?

A person unlawfully in the United States.
Whether or not the immigration system is 'broken' or not doesn't justify breaking our laws.
I welcome all who come here legally and are self-supporting.

The unexplained hatred some people have really does baffle me.

You should go talk to them and convince them of the error of their ways.

 

[DaveXA]

A person unlawfully in the United States.
Whether or not the immigration system is 'broken' or not doesn't justify breaking our laws.
I welcome all who come here legally and are self-supporting.

You should go talk to them and convince them of the error of their ways.

Been there and done that. It's like beating an iceberg with a toothpick.

It doesn't justify anything. What a broken system does is create chaos and makes it nearly impossible for people who request asylum or entry for legitimate reasons to be able to do so. I would argue that fixing the immigration system will reduce the stress on the system caused by what's happening with border agents being overwhelmed. And clearly, the wall has done little to slow it down. So that's been a huge waste of resources. There are better, more efficient ways to monitor the border.

 

[MT15]

A grown arse adult would already know what I mean by “open borders” assuming said grown arse adult paid attention to the increase of undocumented migrants coming across the border over the past 4 years. Does someone really need to prove to you that for the last three to four years unprecedented numbers of undocumented migrants have streamed across our borders? Does someone have to prove to you that the Biden administration reversed all of the Trump era border policies before he (Biden) had anything in place to deal with all those migrants? Does someone have to prove to you that once those folks set foot in this country it becomes much more laborious and costly to deport them if they even bother to show up for a hearing?

Now I can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that all this was planned but as you put it, if it looks like a duck.

You have mayors and governors and school superintendents and hospital administrators and law enforcement all over this country complaining about the lack of policy from this administration. Some of them are democrats. But you need proof in order to discuss?

Did we have migration problems before? Yes. Nobody said otherwise. But we were making progress. But Biden took what worked and reversed it before he had a policy in place to deal with the problem. He left the plane without a parachute banking on the hope that Republicans would be forced to pass the bill he wanted rather than allow all these undocumented migrants into the country. And Republicans didn’t play along. So he sat on his arse and allowed it to continue for over three years. That’s on him. And Harris.

As for the Republicans, they have been dragging their arse on immigration as long as the Dems. And yes the Langford bill should have been debated and voted upon. But that doesn’t excuse Biden and his crew for their reckless border policy and reversing what was working to a degree and replacing it with a cluster.

Are you talking about asylum seekers when you say undocumented migrants?

 

[MT15]

Of course he will. The for-profit-prison corps are lining up to build these camps. Texas as a state is chomping at the bit to host these camps. They won’t be able to repatriate these people very easily, so I could see these camps being a long-term thing.

It’s just a human rights nightmare.

 

[Texan1211]

Been there and done that. It's like beating an iceberg with a toothpick.

It doesn't justify anything. What a broken system does is create chaos and makes it nearly impossible for people who request asylum or entry for legitimate reasons to be able to do so. I would argue that fixing the immigration system will reduce the stress on the system caused by what's happening with border agents being overwhelmed. And clearly, the wall has done little to slow it down. So that's been a huge waste of resources. There are better, more efficient ways to monitor the border.

Well, I will expect the law to be followed no matter how screwed up some think the system is.

 

[MT15]

A person unlawfully in the United States.
Whether or not the immigration system is 'broken' or not doesn't justify breaking our laws.
I welcome all who come here legally and are self-supporting.

You should go talk to them and convince them of the error of their ways.

What do you think should happen to people who came here illegally, but are self-supporting? That are law-abiding and contribute to society?

 

[MT15]

Well, I will expect the law to be followed no matter how screwed up some think the system is.

Most of the asylum seekers are following the law exactly. The law says they must cross the border and then turn themselves in to make an asylum claim.

The Haitians in Springfield, OH have been following the law exactly. They work hard and are here legally. Trump says he will deport them.

Trump also says he will deport minor US citizens.

 

[Texan1211]

What do you think should happen to people who came here illegally, but are self-supporting? That are law-abiding and contribute to society?

I think everyone who comes here and stays here should do so legally. If they were brought here as children, give them 3 months to register and then confer citizenship 7 years later. They can stay.

 

[Texan1211]

Most of the asylum seekers are following the law exactly. The law says they must cross the border and then turn themselves in to make an asylum claim.

The Haitians in Springfield, OH have been following the law exactly. They work hard and are here legally. Trump says he will deport them.

Trump also says he will deport minor US citizens.

Look, I get that Trump is all important to some folks. Not me, okay, so please leave your Trump crapola elsewhere. More folks are rejected on asylum claims than accepted. I don't see why it should take so long to determine their status. Make a decision, accept or reject and deport immediately.

 

[Texan1211]

Trump also says he will deport minor US citizens

I could be wrong, but pretty sure that would be illegal, so it won't be happening.

 

[MT15]

Look, I get that Trump is all important to some folks. Not me, okay, so please leave your Trump crapola elsewhere. More folks are rejected on asylum claims than accepted. I don't see why it should take so long to determine their status. Make a decision, accept or reject and deport immediately.

That’s something that was trying to be remedied by Biden.

And sorry - you can’t talk about this without talking about the incoming admin. You don’t have a problem discussing Biden, so I can discuss what Trump is promising to do. That’s the entire actual topic of this thread.