Trump Election Interference / Falsification of Business Records Criminal Trial (Trump guilty on all 34 Counts) (5 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

What will happen now that former President Donald Trump was found guilty (in 34 counts) by the jury?
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Speculation on the judge relating to sentencing?
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Appeals?
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Political Damage?
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Trump found guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records. Here's a breakdown.

A New York jury unanimously found Donald Trump guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, a stunning conclusion to the historic trial of the former president.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Saintman2884]

First suggestion I’ve seen from a GOP person that the party has a decision to make.

Brooks was echoing the same idiotic rhetorical shrill Trump was spouting off and looking just as ridiculous until he lost his re-election bid in 2022 and lost the Republican primary for Senator to Katie Britt in 2022, IIRC. Trump didnt decisively support his campaign and Brooks has had in for him ever since. Not saying Brooks' doesn't have a point here, but he was Trump's boy for years and would still be if he had supported him two years ago. His motives and reasons aren't at honest or as altruistic or hardly honorable as Cheney's or Kinzinger's.

Brooks is still a MAGA, at heart if Trump were to start supporting his political ambitions again and give some "half-arse" apology tomorrow.

 

[Saintman2884]

Mo Brooks has mostly been an embarrassment, so I'm shocked to see him making sense. Biden is my man, but Republicans would be wise to heed this recommendation.

Lapaz, Brooks is and always will be an unprincipled opportunist. He's only pissed off here because Trump didnt support his re-election campaign two years ago. For most of his career under Trump, he was retorting and echoing Agent Orange's inane, pointless, clueless policies until Trump chose to back somebody else who was younger to take Shelby's absent Senate seat after he retired, IIRC, in 2022. His motivations are more centered around sour grapes then real, genuine convictions like Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

If Trump were to call him tomorrow and offer to support him politically in the future and maybe offer some, half-arse, BS "apology", he'd be singing his praises.

He's an unprincipled opportunist.

 

[Saintman2884]

There's a lot more political websites on the Internet then just MAD. Besides, quite a few non-MAGA Republicans like Jonah Goldberg agree with this verdict because Trump isn't really a conservative nor really a Republican. He was a pro-choice Democrat as recently as 2010 but his version of the DNC left him behind 60-70 years ago or he realized he only win if he ran as a Republican. He said as much as far back in a 1998 interview.

15-20 years ago, Trump was lecturing CNN panelists and interviewers how much he hated Bush, GOP and his administration on Iraq, and 80-90% of his policies. And most Americans, 20 years ago, likely agreed with him and saw him as being on "their side". Same thing applies for Trump acolytes Peter Navarro, Roger Stone.

 

[Saintman2884]

Oh you know the scurrying happening right now across all social media to try and find one or two things that they can latch on to, coalesce around, and start amplifying.

It's coming. Belee dat.

It likely already has happened on YT, NYT, WP message boards.

 

[Saintman2884]

that would be great. then maybe they will scurry off to their crashed careers. cant imagine how much they screwed up their futures.

If those contractual agreements they signed outline they get paid, win or lose, Trump will likely get sued if he doesn't end up paying some of his attorneys.

More then likely, Trump isn't paying his attorneys like Blanche, RNC or some big-dollar donors are.

Blanche can always say he once defended a former U.S. President in a hush-money, campaign finance violation trial. Sure, some may avoid him or not like him for defending a guy like Trump, and perhaps they’ll be a short-term backlash, but again, I say, somebody had to defend him in a criminal trial even if his arguments werent valid or weak.

That's another major reason why our legal system in this case worked wonders.

 

[superchuck500]

Found this...only if he has completed his sentence and/or paid fines and owes no more money.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/donald-trump-vote-2024-election-00160430

I saw that too but it appears to be incorrect.

 

[Optimus Prime]

In 2016 I was visiting at my father's house, and a Hillary Clinton commercial came on. My father scoffed, "Hillary Clinton, a criminal?"

How ironic.

On CNN last night someone pointed out that while Trump was committing these coverup crimes he was leading crowds in chants of ‘Lock her up!’

 

[Optimus Prime]

Donald Trump’s conviction on all 34 felony counts on Thursday marked a full-blown victory for Alvin Bragg, the first-term Manhattan district attorney who was criticized for using a novel legal strategy to bring a historic criminal case against a former president.

The decision to convict Trump on all 34 counts is significant. Jurors could have acquitted him on some and convicted on others. But the fact that they went all-in, and relatively quickly, suggests they believed the wider story prosecutors told at trial. It is a full-throated win for Bragg and the worst possible outcome for Trump.

Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in New York state. In order to elevate it to a felony, Bragg had to show that Trump did it with the intent to commit another crime.

Bragg argued that Trump had falsified the records with the intent to violate a New York state law that says it is illegal for “any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means”.

The statute has rarely been used to prosecute. The prosecutors offered a range of what the “unlawful means” were, including violating campaign finance and tax laws. Some legal observerssaid Bragg was stretching to bring the case. A little over a month ago, one law professor called the case a “historic mistake”.

But over the last several weeks, prosecutors transformed a complex legal case into a carefully constructed narrative that was easy for jurors to understand. They took a case that was fundamentally about boring paper crimes and turned it into one that was about something simple: lying.…..

Trump’s conviction on all 34 counts is a full-blown victory for DA Alvin Bragg

Prosecutors took a case that was about boring paper crimes and successfully turned it into one that was about something simple: lying

www.theguardian.com

 

[MT15]

I cannot tell you how many posts like these there are. Personally I think they see the threat is to their own gravy train.

 

[FullMonte]

I saw that too but it appears to be incorrect.

Yeah, the board of elections website states the qualifications to vote in New York as “not be in prison for a felony conviction.”

Voter Qualifications | NYC Board of Elections

To register to vote in the City of New York, you must: Be a citizen of the United States (includes those persons born in Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands). Be a New York City resident for at least 30 days. Be 18 years old on or before Election Day.

vote.nyc

So, if you are not currently in prison, you can vote.

 

[MT15]

I saw an analyst on tv make the argument against any prison time for Trump because there were no losses because of his fraud. I could not disagree with him more strongly than I do. Everyone paid dearly for that fraud. People died because Trump won the election (hundreds of thousands of them) when he botched the pandemic. Trump’s presidency costs us still today when he attacks the rule of law and says we are in horrible shape as a country because he is being held accountable for his crimes.

He has launched personal attacks against the judge, his family, the prosecutors, the witnesses. The jurors are undoubtedly next. He uses violent imagery to whip up hatred in his base. He has expressed no remorse, taken no personal accountability. Why should he be shown mercy by the court?

 

[MT15]

 

[Optimus Prime]

Full text
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“If you don't want to be found guilty of falsifying business records as a felony, don't sleep with the porn star, don't lie about it, don't pay her off, don't cover up the payoff, don't cover up the payoff in the middle of a presidential campaign ….

“If you don’t want to be held liable
for rape, as Donald Trump has, don’t grab the woman’s genitalia. If you don’t want to be held liable for defaming the woman you raped, don’t keep lying about what you did and calling her a nut job.

“If you don't want to be indicted for overthrowing the Constitution, don't start a self-coup. If you don't want to be indicted for stealing classified documents and obstructing justice, don't take the classified documents.

When the government asks for them back, give them back. If the FBI serves you with a search warrant, don't hide the documents and don't lie about it and don't have your lawyers lie about it.

“This isn't that hard. Donald Trump is not the victim here.”

 

[superchuck500]

I saw an analyst on tv make the argument against any prison time for Trump because there were no losses because of his fraud. I could not disagree with him more strongly than I do. Everyone paid dearly for that fraud. People died because Trump won the election (hundreds of thousands of them) when he botched the pandemic. Trump’s presidency costs us still today when he attacks the rule of law and says we are in horrible shape as a country because he is being held accountable for his crimes.

He has launched personal attacks against the judge, his family, the prosecutors, the witnesses. The jurors are undoubtedly next. He uses violent imagery to whip up hatred in his base. He has expressed no remorse, taken no personal accountability. Why should he be shown mercy by the court?

I think the sentencing should be based on how this number of convictions on this specific crime are typically sentenced - perhaps with some recognition of the patent and daily disrespect the defendant showed the court, the jurors, and the judicial system of the state of New York. If these crimes never get actual incarceration, I don't think Trump should get incarceration because he's Trump. But if they do get it, particularly when there are 34 counts, then he should get it.

I'm not sure what the sentencing data show. I know that the typical conviction for this charge does not - but I think you would have to look at cases where a single defendant was convicted for dozens of violations.

If Judge Merchan decides that prison time is simply not appropriate for these convictions, I would love to see him address Trump directly and say something like "For weeks leading up to your trial and on a daily basis after it began, you showed nothing but contempt for this court, these jurors, the system of justice, and the people of New York. You are a petty, vindictive, hollow man who cares for nothing but his own gratification - traits that appear to have brought this judgment by 12 jurors of this community upon you. You insulted me on a daily basis. I, however, am not sitting on this bench in my personal capacity but as a judge bound to apply the law objectively and consistently. Based on the law of New York and the manner in which the crimes you committed have been sentenced, I hereby sentence you to the following . . ."

If, however, there is clearly established precedent for jail time in cases like this, I don't see how Trump can make a case for leniency. I certainly think the judge would be well within his unquestioned discretion to take a harder line with Trump based purely on his contempt for the system, shown on a daily basis. I just don't think it should be out of line with the precedent - this isn't about "getting Trump". It's about holding Trump accountable in the same system everyone else has to operate in.

 

[Heathen]

If he wants to continue the "unfair/witch hunt" narrative, getting tossed in jail ( or home detention/removal of ability to post to social media as @superchuck500 mentioned on the NY case thread ) he will absolutely do it. If it stirs up his supporters and makes him look like a martyr, he all about self-promotion. Consequences be damned.

*Opens FanDuel acct to check odds

That’s what I’m thinking. He probably wants to get tossed in jail for a photo op. Not only the martyr complex-which will totally work..But A high amount of governmental instability in November 2024 much like January 2021 helps him and his cronies expedite far right policies.

In either case, a trump win or loss, things are going to get wild this fall.

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah, the board of elections website states the qualifications to vote in New York as “not be in prison for a felony conviction.”

Voter Qualifications | NYC Board of Elections

To register to vote in the City of New York, you must: Be a citizen of the United States (includes those persons born in Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands). Be a New York City resident for at least 30 days. Be 18 years old on or before Election Day.

vote.nyc

So, if you are not currently in prison, you can vote.

Yeah - it appears that Florida law provides that if you are convicted in another state, the rules for that state apply as to your voting eligibility. The two exceptions are murder and sex crimes, in which case Florida law applies.

The Politico article has a quote from a Florida official that says that if Florida recognizes the crime, then Florida law applies, not the law of the state where the conviction occurred. But that is how the exception for murder and sex crimes is worded - that's not the general rule.

 

[bird]

There's a lot more political websites on the Internet then just MAD. Besides, quite a few non-MAGA Republicans like Jonah Goldberg agree with this verdict because Trump isn't really a conservative nor really a Republican. He was a pro-choice Democrat as recently as 2010 but his version of the DNC left him behind 60-70 years ago or he realized he only win if he ran as a Republican. He said as much as far back in a 1998 interview.

15-20 years ago, Trump was lecturing CNN panelists and interviewers how much he hated Bush, GOP and his administration on Iraq, and 80-90% of his policies. And most Americans, 20 years ago, likely agreed with him and saw him as being on "their side". Same thing applies for Trump acolytes Peter Navarro, Roger Stone.

Poor Jonah Goldberg. Much like George Will his “best by” date has come and gone. The problem with guys like that is that they have nothing to offer. They are stuck in time. It is nice that Goldberg agrees with the verdict but his rationale is faulty. I also heard George Will say that the rest of the world will view this as putting a political opponent in jail. He is completely wrong.

 

[MT15]

I think the sentencing should be based on how this number of convictions on this specific crime are typically sentenced - perhaps with some recognition of the patent and daily disrespect the defendant showed the court, the jurors, and the judicial system of the state of New York. If these crimes never get actual incarceration, I don't think Trump should get incarceration because he's Trump. But if they do get it, particularly when there are 34 counts, then he should get it.

I'm not sure what the sentencing data show. I know that the typical conviction for this charge does not - but I think you would have to look at cases where a single defendant was convicted for dozens of violations.

If Judge Merchan decides that prison time is simply not appropriate for these convictions, I would love to see him address Trump directly and say something like "For weeks leading up to your trial and on a daily basis after it began, you showed nothing but contempt for this court, these jurors, the system of justice, and the people of New York. You are a petty, vindictive, hollow man who cares for nothing but his own gratification - traits that appear to have brought this judgment by 12 jurors of this community upon you. You insulted me on a daily basis. I, however, am not sitting on this bench in my personal capacity but as a judge bound to apply the law objectively and consistently. Based on the law of New York and the manner in which the crimes you committed have been sentenced, I hereby sentence you to the following . . ."

If, however, there is clearly established precedent for jail time in cases like this, I don't see how Trump can make a case for leniency. I certainly think the judge would be well within his unquestioned discretion to take a harder line with Trump based purely on his contempt for the system, shown on a daily basis. I just don't think it should be out of line with the precedent - this isn't about "getting Trump". It's about holding Trump accountable in the same system everyone else has to operate in.

Yeah I agree with you completely. My issue was the analyst saying there were no losses due to his fraud, unlike when someone cheats someone else out of some money. We do have losses due to his fraud, and they are worse than monetary. Our loss is that 20-25% of the population believes his fraud. And our loss is that he was elected in the first place. We will never know, but you can make the case (pretty strongly) that had the entire Stormy Daniels story come out right on the heels of the Access Hollywood scandal - we wouldn’t have had his presidency at all.