The trade and economy mega-thread (8 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Is there a trade deal with China? Is it really a deal or just a pull-back to status quo ante? Is Trump advancing US interests in this well-executed trade battle plan or was this poorly conceived from the start . . . and harmful?

I think the jury's still out, but I haven't seen that the Chinese are offering much in compromise - and it's not even clear if there's going to be an agreement. But it's clear they are working on something and I'm sure Trump will sell it as the greatest trade deal ever. The proof will be in the details.

 

[efil4]

You don’t want to hear them. We have elected officials who enter public service as middle income public servants and accumulate million dollar estates on public servant salaries. Is that a big enough red flag for you? The whole Biden family mess where millions of dollars laundered thru 20 shell companies. The Trump foundation. The Clinton foundation. Millions of dollars from domestic and foreign interest changing hands. It reeks of self dealing to anyone who has ever dealt with conflicts of interest. It is an ethical cesspool.

So if you want to clean it all up. I’m all for it. How far are you prepared to go? Cause if you only want to apply your high moral standards to someone you don’t agree with politically, you are part of the problem.

so start now, right? Start with Trump. Whats wrong with that? or you want to wait til 2028 to start "cleaning up" ?

 

[efil4]

The Russians? The El Salvadorians? What friends exactly?

friends eh?


oh these friends?

 

[TampaJoe]

The Russians? The El Salvadorians? What friends exactly?

you are posting about "dealing with friends" when we are alienating every single one. How does that work exactly?

Trade deficits, as has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, are not bad things. There is a co-existence that happens.

Im not opposed to "lessen our dependence" on China in a long term strategy, but we have apparently a President who said forget long term, this is happening now. In one fell swoop, with absolute disregard for the consequences. Many of which you havent even felt yet, but are to come.

You dont quit your job to take another if you havent secured the other job, do you?

We dont have the infrastructure, the workforce...not even a PLAN on how to onshore mfg for anything that China produces.

So in order to attain independence from China, you are willing to take a back seat on the global economy to others? Because thats precisely what is happening.

I don’t think I implied the Russians were our friends. Nor are the Iranians or the North Koreans.

I didn’t say all trade is bad or all trade deficits are bad. It depends on the deal and who we are dealing with and for what?

Your “don’t quit your job reference” is generally true. It’s good advice. But to be honest I have resigned positions without a job more times than I have quit to take another job. I was lucky in that regard because I had a good network and could always pick up another gig fairly quickly.

But I agree with you in that our current POTUS management style is for crap. Never cared for it. I think some of what he is attempting address is legitimate. I don’t care for his methods.

I agree we need a plan. A good plan. Bipartisan would be nice but I’m afraid working across the aisle only gets you primaried by the extremists in your own party. We used to admire people who played well with others.

 

[efil4]

I don’t think I implied the Russians were our friends. Nor are the Iranians or the North Koreans.

I didn’t say all trade is bad or all trade deficits are bad. It depends on the deal and who we are dealing with and for what?

Your “don’t quit your job reference” is generally true. It’s good advice. But to be honest I have resigned positions without a job more times than I have quit to take another job. I was lucky in that regard because I had a good network and could always pick up another gig fairly quickly.

But I agree with you in that our current POTUS management style is for crap. Never cared for it. I think some of what he is attempting address is legitimate. I don’t care for his methods.

I agree we need a plan. A good plan. Bipartisan would be nice but I’m afraid working across the aisle only gets you primaried by the extremists in your own party. We used to admire people who played well with others.

im asking you - who are our friends?

i just posted 2 additional posts above - one where Hegseth announced US no longer will guarantee EU safety and Moscow tempting Trump with Trump Tower Moscow permit.

so are the EU our friends?

 

[efil4]

Here, the quasi-adult in room speaks to China deal - never was going to be 1 month nor was 245% tariffs going to work- ever.



2-3 years to get any sort of trade deal done with China. And lets be crystal clear- a trade deal that will most likely land EXACTLY where we were prior to all of these performative shenanigans that caused quite some damage.

 

[TampaJoe]

im asking you - who are our friends?

i just posted 2 additional posts above - one where Hegseth announced US no longer will guarantee EU safety and Moscow tempting Trump with Trump Tower Moscow permit.

so are the EU our friends?

I would consider the EU as allies. Wouldn’t you?

 

[efil4]

I would consider the EU as allies. Wouldn’t you?

Me? absolutely.

Trump? no.

just today Trump on EU :



So if our POTUS is identifying an ally as "ripping us off" - how to we maintain that ally status? NATO?

Well....just today



So while YOU may "consider" them allies, your elected officials in DC are painting a much different picture of the EU.

 

[TampaJoe]

Me? absolutely.

Trump? no.

just today Trump on EU :



So if our POTUS is identifying an ally as "ripping us off" - how to we maintain that ally status? NATO?

Well....just today



So while YOU may "consider" them allies, your elected officials in DC are painting a much different picture of the EU.

I get it. You don’t like Trump. You don’t agree with Trump. Okay by me. I didn’t vote for him and he doesn’t call asking for my advice. As I said before, I don’t care for how he manages his business or our affairs.

But he won the election so it is who we got. We should pick better leaders but that isn’t solely up to me.

 

[TampaJoe]

I can see the appeal of this view - but I think it is substantially overly simplistic. If the USA "depends" on China to the extent that it is a national security issue, then the reverse is certainly true: China depends on the USA to the extent that it is a national security issue for China. It is not uncommon in the international relations analysis to see authors contend that the US is more important to China than China is to the US. I think Trump actually believes this to be true, which is why he thought he had leverage in China in a trade war.

I actually think it's a bit overstated. A sudden decoupling would not only cripple both economies but also the global economy - but that isn't the same thing as a genuine national security interest.

I did not suggest a sudden decoupling. It has taken years to get here and it’s reasonable to assume years to reverse the trend. But that doesn’t change my belief that it does need reversing.

 

[bird]

Once we lose our reserve currency status...this 'exorbitant privilege', we are so screwed. China is hell bent on innovations and we are cutting funds out of research. Stanford receives billions from foreign grants for research annually. We lose this and capital flows out.

I'm so sick of these people who receives government aid to support them but are pissed that someone they prejudiced also get help. So tired of this stupidity.

This is the essence of Republican ignorance. The status of the dollar as reserve currency and T-bills as safety is extremely critical. Foreign investment is critical as well. Destruction of basic R&D much of which is done by government particularly biomedical is absolutely psychotic.

 

[bird]

so start now, right? Start with Trump. Whats wrong with that? or you want to wait til 2028 to start "cleaning up" ?

Well, that is traditional. Republicans screw things up, Democrats have to fix them.

 

[TampaJoe]

so start now, right? Start with Trump. Whats wrong with that? or you want to wait til 2028 to start "cleaning up" ?

Nope. I’m waiting on both sides to agree to a standard and commit to holding each other accountable to it without fear or favor.

I don’t want to hear objections during the next Dem administration. I want to see the same independence and courage and commitment to the truth from Democrats that they now demand from Republicans.

I won’t hold my breath.

 

[coldseat]

I get it. You don’t like Trump. You don’t agree with Trump. Okay by me. I didn’t vote for him and he doesn’t call asking for my advice. As I said before, I don’t care for how he manages his business or our affairs.

But he won the election so it is who we got. We should pick better leaders but that isn’t solely up to me.

Why wouldn't you care about this regardless of Trump winning the election? You clearly cared about it with Biden and still have very strong feelings about it even today, even though you didn't vote for Biden. But now that it's Trump, you don't care?

The cognitive dissonance is just striking.

 

[efil4]

Nope. I’m waiting on both sides to agree to a standard and commit to holding each other accountable to it without fear or favor.

I don’t want to hear objections during the next Dem administration. I want to see the same independence and courage and commitment to the truth from Democrats that they now demand from Republicans.

I won’t hold my breath.

keep waiting

 

[efil4]

I get it. You don’t like Trump. You don’t agree with Trump. Okay by me. I didn’t vote for him and he doesn’t call asking for my advice. As I said before, I don’t care for how he manages his business or our affairs.

But he won the election so it is who we got. We should pick better leaders but that isn’t solely up to me.

you like him?

 

[TampaJoe]

you like him?

Not particularly. We have never met.

Professionally, I didn’t vote for him. I have never voted for him. I don’t think he is cut out for that job. I haven’t seen anything in the last 10 years that convinces me otherwise.

Personally I wish he had stuck with television.

 

[TampaJoe]

keep waiting

Sadly. You are correct. It will never happen. DC is indeed a swamp. It looks to stay that way.

 

[TampaJoe]

Why wouldn't you care about this regardless of Trump winning the election? You clearly cared about it with Biden and still have very strong feelings about it even today, even though you didn't vote for Biden. But now that it's Trump, you don't care?

The cognitive dissonance is just striking.

Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. Try reading that again.

The phrase “I don’t care for his leadership style” is the same as saying I don’t like his leadership style.

You appear to have a touch of that cognitive dissonance yourself.