SHOULD Biden run for a 2nd term? (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Biden has lost support from many people who voted for him in the past.
He is getting up there in age.
Here are a couple of sites I'd like to share...
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Octogenarian Biden begins new year facing age-old question on 2024 race

In the coming months, Biden faces a simple question: will he seek a second term at the end of which he would be 86?

www.theguardian.com

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Biden 2024? Most Democrats say no thank you: AP-NORC poll

A majority of Democrats now think one term is plenty for President Joe Biden, despite his insistence that he plans to seek reelection in 2024. While Biden has trumpeted his legislative victories and ability to govern, the poll suggests relatively few U.S. adults give him high marks on either...

news.yahoo.com

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WHAT DO ANY OF YOU THINK?
IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BEST SERVED BY HAVING PRESIDENT BIDEN RUN FOR ANOTHER TERM OR WOULD A DIFFERENT CANDIDATE BE BETTER?

 

[Heathen]

They can vote for Joe Biden because he's as good on that question as it's going to get. There is no better.

That’d be valid if I hadn’t already said “outside of voting”

-5 points

 

[SystemShock]

I'm pretty upset by the pop shots I've been reading about that Biden is currently taking from the far left lefties. With friends like them one doesn't need an enemy.

And this is why Trump is going to win the election. Then the far left lefties will cry about abortion, LGBTQ, education, healthcare, etc. wondering how Trump won, how they are going to leave the country...

 

[SystemShock]

Outside of the whole voting / not voting issue..

In your opinion...What could these people do if they wanted to stop things like Israel's US-funded genocide of Gazans from happening?

You know when you are on a plane taking off, the flight attendant is demonstrating the oxygen mask, and the voice says "put on your mask before you tend to others"?

 

[bird]

If you think what’s happened in Gaza is just a “talking point”, and not genocide.. I’ve got some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona as they say.

Guess that’s where repubs and many dems seem oddly united in this pro Israel stance. Israel has held an apartheid state racist regime against the Palestinian people at least since 1948.

There is no “both sides”. Hamas is guilty, but so is Israel.. much more so, if you care about actual lives lost to terrorism per side.

You keep trying to make this simple when it is not. I stated here and elsewhere that I have no use for the Middleeast. I have no use for the Israeli government, no use for Hamas, no use for Hezbollah, no use for the mullah azzhats in Iran, no use for the Saudi government, no use for the Muslim Brotherhood, no use for any religionist bullschlitz. In 1948 the establishment of the state of Israel which was part and parcel with the mess created by the West in general after WW1 caused much anger and yet the Arab world did NOTHING to assist the Palestinian people.

Israel is guilty in this phase of bullschlitz but Hamas most likely knew how the Israeli government would respond because of the criminal Bibi being in power. They engaged as they have since their existence in terrorism. Hamas was never about the Palestinian people. Yes, I am well aware of building schools and hospitals. That was window dressing.

So, you tell me what should be done. Tell me how simple and easy it would be.

 

[SamAndreas]

That’d be valid if I hadn’t already said “outside of voting”

-5 points

You said, "Outside of the whole voting / not voting issue."

That denote's staying home and not voting/ instead of voting because they're so pissed over just one issue.

Voting for Biden is a completely different thing. Not voting is passive response, specifically voting for one candidate over an another is an active response.

Another way what you said could have been phrased is 'outside of doing something/ or not doing anything issue.' The "staying home and not voting" is a common theme I've been seeing everywhere in the news and on the Internet.

Democrats staying home because they are focused on that singe issue, are not taking into account the powers Biden actually has to do what they want him to do. He's got to contend with 70 years of laws and treaties having been passed to militarily support Israel. If he did that for the Palestinians he would be basically guaranteed to lose the next election. Then Trump upon winning the election could overthrow 80 years of similar laws to pull us out of NATO.

Biden has stretched the current political limits all he possibly could do under the laws of our land for Palestinians and not just hand the election in November over to Trump. Think about the balance before you act. He can't be a one issue politician, we cannot afford to have him be a one issue politician who overturns long established laws. And it is not just one law we're contending with here, there are 70 years of laws to be balanced and dealt with.

Do not expect a President to do that what is, and has been the preview of Congress since our founding. Currently it being a Republican Congress.

Do not demand that Biden do, that which we are most upset for Trump having done and is threatening to do a lot more of. Do not ask Biden to become a dictator doing your bidding because you are irrationally emotionally overwrote in seeing only that one issue. Balance the issues, there are many of them, and most of them come a lot closer to home.


So besides voting for Biden, also vote for Democrats in the House and Senate.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

That's valid. But would you have no issue telling this to the face of a voter who refused to vote for Biden because their people were massacred by US bombs via the IDF that they are "choosing not to make things better"?

I just see too many problems with this idea that there aren't single issues you can ever base your vote on.

I realized I never responded to this earlier...

I would of course understand why Arab Americans would be upset with Biden, and their criticism and disappointment are valid. But to answer your question, yes, I would have no issue telling them they should still vote for Biden, and he is better for them than Trump.

Being a single issue voter for big issues I can understand, but if this is your one issue, then shouldn't you vote for the candidate that is better on your single issue?

If Trump is elected, the chances of a Palestinian state drop dramatically. Those chances are on life support, Trump will pull the plug. Gazans seeking asylum in the US? Forget about it. Organizing mass protests for the treatment of Palestinians, high probability he's going to start mobilizing troops against them (he's talked about this in the past). You're going to get a "smarter" Muslim ban.

It's just dumb to assume that if Trump wins there isn't going to be much of a difference on this one issue. And it's woefully optimistic to assume you'll have a better chance in 4 years that will somehow make up for whatever damage happens in the previous 4 years.

Put it this way, I've talked about how I have one transgender child. I think Biden can do more to help out, but he's been way better than Trump. Let's say he does something I disagree with on the issue (like transgender girls in youth sports, or HRT for minors), but maintains a distinct difference than Trump on the issue, both in policy and the way he frames things. Then yes, I'm still voting for him - and I'll try to push more people that align with my issues in Congress, locally and in the next Presidential election.

 

[Heathen]

You know when you are on a plane taking off, the flight attendant is demonstrating the oxygen mask, and the voice says "put on your mask before you tend to others"?

The question has always been “what would you do if (situation I gave)”

Ill repeat—-I ’m not asking about voting. Im not asking for analogies of us taking care of our own first. I’m asking what can be done to stop things like this (US supported terrorism) from happening again.

Maybe for example a possible answer which accomplishes some of both is voting for Biden — but still raking him over the coals on choices we vehemently disagree on, just like any one of us liberal voters would do Trump.

The problem I have is with the perceived widespread irritability of calling out the things that our party does that doesn’t align with our values. That’s ALWAYS how we’ve made the party fit the needs of the people, not the other way around.

 

[Heathen]

You keep trying to make this simple when it is not. I stated here and elsewhere that I have no use for the Middleeast. I have no use for the Israeli government, no use for Hamas, no use for Hezbollah, no use for the mullah azzhats in Iran, no use for the Saudi government, no use for the Muslim Brotherhood, no use for any religionist bullschlitz. In 1948 the establishment of the state of Israel which was part and parcel with the mess created by the West in general after WW1 caused much anger and yet the Arab world did NOTHING to assist the Palestinian people.

Israel is guilty in this phase of bullschlitz but Hamas most likely knew how the Israeli government would respond because of the criminal Bibi being in power. They engaged as they have since their existence in terrorism. Hamas was never about the Palestinian people. Yes, I am well aware of building schools and hospitals. That was window dressing.

So, you tell me what should be done. Tell me how simple and easy it would be.

Do you think that it was fair in any way that 30,000 Palestinian people slaughtered by the IDF in response to October 7th?

Do you think it was fair that the IDF has rendered most of Gaza a wasteland?

I’ll put it to you another way..do you think if Hamas had killed 30,000 Israelis that it would be a horrific case of genocide?

Answer that.

 

[SamAndreas]

And this is why Trump is going to win the election. Then the far left lefties will cry about abortion, LGBTQ, education, healthcare, etc. wondering how Trump won, how they are going to leave the country...

Trump's not going to win the election, but it's too close this time for comfort. Discipline is the key here, and the far left lefties are not at all disciplined in what they do.

-----

I say "far left lefties." Where am I in the scale of that???

I'm a staunch Democrat who also happens to be a long standing member of a collective of people who have built a successful socialist economic system around themselves here in America.

It's called Farmers Union. I'm a second generation socialist in a collective of what are 220,000 socialist Americans. My dad was a Farmers Union organizer during my childhood. He brought three large grain warehouses under out banner during the 60's and 70's

You've seen that banner on signs (COOP) A serendipitous pun off the word coop, "coop is a cage or small enclosure (as for poultry); also : a small building for housing poultry." (COOP) is a socialist enclosure for rural family life which substitutes special socialist programs for farm bureau capitalism. We also brand as (Cenex) in some areas.

The essential elements are, a seat on the commodities exchange, a school lunch program, a rural health system, insurance tailored to socialist needs, a socialist industrial base to manufacture the thing we need, and an educational program to insure that that next generation carries the torch when we're gone.

Yeah,,, as a child I went to socialist camp every year for a few days for my indoctrination as a socialist. Our camp was a real nice place in the mountains near Durango Colorado. I remember coming home from the camp one day and finding that the adults were all sitting around the house in the mornings so they could all watch the Impeachment hearing of Richard Nixon. He was a dire threat to us, so was Reagan.

We're not dreamers dreaming of a socialist form government like Bernie, that would be a mess, socialism is not a form of government it is socially granular in nature, and we have established that granular socialism can exist well under a capitalist government system.

What it can't do is to exist under is a Communist government system, nor will it thrive under a dictatorship.


So see, I'm not a far left lefty even though Republicans would say that I am. Actually they would say, and have, that I'm even worse than a far left lefty.


Here's the official about us page at our web site. I'm still a member despite the fact that I moved away from the family farm years ago, and have not farmed since. There are benefits for non farmers, although not nearly as much as for farmers. I get member savings at the COOP and Cenex stores, and still use the Farmers Union Insurance system.

About Us - National Farmers Union

About NFU Learn more about the history, principles and mission of National Farmers Union. History NFU was founded by ten family farmers in 1902 as the Farmers Educational Cooperative Union of America in Point, Texas. After its founding, NFU advocated for increased co-operative rights, fair...

nfu.org

 

[SamAndreas]

The question has always been “what would you do if (situation I gave)”

Ill repeat—-I ’m not asking about voting. Im not asking for analogies of us taking care of our own first. I’m asking what can be done to stop things like this (US supported terrorism) from happening again.

Maybe for example a possible answer which accomplishes some of both is voting for Biden — but still raking him over the coals on choices we vehemently disagree on, just like any one of us liberal voters would do Trump.

The problem I have is with the perceived widespread irritability of calling out the things that our party does that doesn’t align with our values. That’s ALWAYS how we’ve made the party fit the needs of the people, not the other way around.

I can see no benefit in raking Biden over the coals because you're mad. It undermines his ability to do his best, and it increases the chances that he will not win over Trump in November.

I don't indulge in doing stupid stunts like undermining Biden because I'm angry over a one issue, one issue that is constrained by the laws that Congress have passed.

You're mad at Biden over what is the purview of Congress.

 

[SystemShock]

The question has always been “what would you do if (situation I gave)”

So moot court, ok... unless you are the leader of a country with a large army, or the leader of a country who can offer asylum to all Palestinians, or someone like the leader of Wagner, moot or practically, outside of voting, there is nothing you can do.

Ill repeat—-I ’m not asking about voting. Im not asking for analogies of us taking care of our own first. I’m asking what can be done to stop things like this (US supported terrorism) from happening again.

And I'll repeat, outside of voting, there is nothing you can do. And US supported terrorism? Really?

The problem I have is with the perceived widespread irritability of calling out the things that our party does that doesn’t align with our values. That’s ALWAYS how we’ve made the party fit the needs of the people, not the other way around.

It wasn't the time in 2016, and surely this is not the time for calling out your own party and creating dissent among its members. This is the time to be united in the fight against the party that is against just about everything you stand for.

 

[SystemShock]

Trump's not going to win the election, but it's too close this time for comfort. Discipline is the key here, and the far left lefties are not at all disciplined in what they do.

I hope you are right, but I'm seeing too much internal damage within the Dems, that I think is going to lead to no votes or votes for 3rd party.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I hope you are right, but I'm seeing too much internal damage within the Dems, that I think is going to lead to no votes or votes for 3rd party.

Yeah, I don't think Biden's victory is certain by stretch of the imagination. It's weird to me that the polling is like 45% for Trump and 42% for Biden (or reversed, but all the polls are around that right now)... I'd think it would be lower for both with more undecided/3rd party though.

Fortunately, it's still very early in the election season... Israel will probably finish up their war against Hamas in the next few months, at that point Biden could differentiate himself from Trump more (we'll see if he does it, but what I assess the difference between the two is how to handle Palestinian reconstruction and self governance and the settler policy - which will be more visible after Israel finishes their operations, which neither of them will stop).

There's also going to be a huge difference in fundraising due to Trump's legal fees. This should lead to more ground mobilization.

Plus, right now the focus is mostly on the sitting president, and people can birch and moan about him... as it gets closer, and you just run ads over and over again just highlighting Trump's words. The testimonials from women affected by Roe v Wade. And so on, that should have an effect. At least I hope it does.

 

[Heathen]

I can see no benefit in raking Biden over the coals because you're mad. It undermines his ability to do his best, and it increases the chances that he will not win over Trump in November.

It isn't because i'm mad. It's because he's doing something that I (and millions of others) have a problem with.

The fact that the situation exists isn't my problem. But it is my problem to raise if I'm voting for the guy.

Over and over and over I see this attitude of "don't say anything bad about our guy! it will only hurt him and hurting him is basically the equivalent of being pro-Trump"

How with this attitude does the Democratic party (or any party really) ever need to work for your vote, ever need to care about the issues of their voters?

They don't. That's the problem with this logic. And it's odd to see it parroted over and over here.

I don't indulge in doing stupid stunts like undermining Biden because I'm angry over a one issue, one issue that is constrained by the laws that Congress have passed.

And what issue is this?

You're mad at Biden over what is the purview of Congress.

Biden quite literally did the opposite of what you're suggesting. Do you want to answer again?

The Biden administration once again bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel

For the second time this month, the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel.

apnews.com

 

[Heathen]

So moot court, ok... unless you are the leader of a country with a large army, or the leader of a country who can offer asylum to all Palestinians, or someone like the leader of Wagner, moot or practically, outside of voting, there is nothing you can do.

The situation I gave was always "outside of the youneedtovoteforbidenthisyearorelse" argument, what measures (let's say voting for representatives that will work to cut aid to Israel or any nation - ally or not, that engages in genocide or terrorism of other people), could someone like me and others take for an issue that is clearly against what we believe?

I mean at this point I'm answering the damn question myself..but it was posed to another poster who probably didn't understand it the first time, so, let's move on..

And I'll repeat, outside of voting, there is nothing you can do.

Okay.

I'll give four off the top of my head: Calling out my own party, engaging in inter-party debates and discussions, organizing or participating in rallies / protests, utilizing social media, volunteering..

And US supported terrorism? Really?

Yes, really. I'm surprised you're asking the question.

Do you seriously not see what's happening in Gaza as terrorism from the state of Israel against the Palestinian people?

If I sell guns to domestic terrorists who frequently go into crowds of people and shoot them - and then after they've killed hundreds, say things like "you need to stop doing it in this way" yet still continue to sell guns to them AND have their back if anyone targets them...

Is that not an example of supporting terrorism?

It wasn't the time in 2016, and surely this is not the time for calling out your own party and creating dissent among its members. This is the time to be united in the fight against the party that is against just about everything you stand for.

And just like 2016, regardless of if I vote Biden or not...My party could choke the election away to a fascist.

At some point we have to stop pointing the finger out at everyone else and ask.."Is the reason we're losing because of something WE could've been doing better?"

 

[zztop]

Biden quite literally did the opposite of what you're suggesting. Do you want to answer again?

The Biden administration once again bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel

For the second time this month, the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel.

apnews.com

This was upsetting to me also, and I have nothing invested in that land/people etc, other than it makes him seem in agreement with what IDF is doing.
I think, if he had not bypassed congress, he would have seen to be more neutral vs pro-IDF-actions.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having criticism for the president. If it was a (R) doing this, I would have similar issues. From my understanding encouraging people to vote "uncommitted" is a form of protest, and getting their voices heard. Biden has recently takes some steps to reach out to those in Michigan vs just ignoring it.
In full disclosure, I had some criticisms with some things Obama did too, but I still think he was the best president the country ever had (at least in my lifetime)

Recently Jon Stewart said:

"the stakes of this election does not make Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny..."
“What’s crazy is thinking that we are the ones, as voters, who must silence concerns and criticisms. It is the candidate’s job to assuage concerns, not the voter’s job not to mention them.”

 

[SamAndreas]

It isn't because i'm mad. It's because he's doing something that I (and millions of others) have a problem with.

The fact that the situation exists isn't my problem. But it is my problem to raise if I'm voting for the guy.

Over and over and over I see this attitude of "don't say anything bad about our guy! it will only hurt him and hurting him is basically the equivalent of being pro-Trump"

How with this attitude does the Democratic party (or any party really) ever need to work for your vote, ever need to care about the issues of their voters?

They don't. That's the problem with this logic. And it's odd to see it parroted over and over here.



And what issue is this?



Biden quite literally did the opposite of what you're suggesting. Do you want to answer again?

The Biden administration once again bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel

For the second time this month, the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel.

apnews.com

That issue is arms sales and transfers under previous agreements, in many cases agreements enshrined in law treaty or law.

NO, Biden literally did what I have been saying he has to do. He has a job, he has to do it. It's clear in the wording of that article that Biden is following the law, "making an emergency determination" is clearly literally taken from some law which is specifying what it is that Congress has empowered him to do, and he is required to do it.

He is required to make emergency determinations when the situation warrants it. That is written into the laws he has to follow as much as the usual situation, which is where Congress decides if it's not an emergency situation.

BTW I used to like AP articles, but they used to be very factual briefs without added narrative. But lately AP has been producing these long add narrative screeds, and if possible they have even shortened the amount of factual information in them than they used to have in their classic short wire service articles.

It's not that that article lies, it's mostly added narrative, very biased writing. It ignored information which would have run counter to it's narrative.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

This was upsetting to me also, and I have nothing invested in that land/people etc, other than it makes him seem in agreement with what IDF is doing.
I think, if he had not bypassed congress, he would have seen to be more neutral vs pro-IDF-actions.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having criticism for the president. If it was a (R) doing this, I would have similar issues. From my understanding encouraging people to vote "uncommitted" is a form of protest, and getting their voices heard. Biden has recently takes some steps to reach out to those in Michigan vs just ignoring it.
In full disclosure, I had some criticisms with some things Obama did too, but I still think he was the best president the country ever had (at least in my lifetime)

Recently Jon Stewart said:

"the stakes of this election does not make Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny..."
“What’s crazy is thinking that we are the ones, as voters, who must silence concerns and criticisms. It is the candidate’s job to assuage concerns, not the voter’s job not to mention them.”

If Congress wasn't engaged in a partisan fight with extremist within Congress, would they even blink at approving such aid?

The bypass of Congress happened because of the infighting over the budget, Ukraine, border security, etc. There isn't the political will to turn away from Israel in Congress and if Congress were operating without the extreme infighting we see today, they would have approved full aid to Israel.