House Select Committee Hearings on Jan. 6 (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

Let’s put our discussion in this thread we can use it for all the hearings.

 

[bdb13]

I think there are three different areas of possible charges: (1) acts or conspiracies relating to seditious acts, (2) acts or conspiracies related to mob violence, and (3) miscellaneous failures of federal law related records and whatnot.

Dismissing the third category as too minor, I think Garland will be under a heavy expectation to do something - we can’t know an insurrection when we see it but then fail to take steps to hold the key players accountable while also expecting to just keep our system of government. I think this will be the ultimate beacon and he will act, most likely by convening a grand jury in the District of Columbia and let the people return the charges. But what they put on and what charges are on the table, and against whom . . . and when (!) remain terribly complicated questions.

It definitely needs to happen before the GOP primary schedule gets underway for 2024. It needs to avoid political connections as much as possible - though for some it will always be that.

I haven't thought it until about right now.. but they're going to bring charges against Trump. It's so incredibly obvious (and now mostly on the record) what happened and how heinous it all was that it would now be ridiculous if they don't and they've then basically ceded the ground to him and them to do whatever the fork they want or need to do in the future because they know that they're actually, truly untouchable.

 

[FullMonte]

Here is my take on the events that may or may not have occurred in the car.

First off, I have zero doubt that Ms. Hutchinson told the truth as she believes it to be. What I suspect happened is closer to: The president was argumentative with those in the car, and he probably said something to the extent of "I'll drive myself if I have to," and leaned forward. At that point, the security officer put a hand on the president to try and calm him down, and Trump aggressively pushed his hand away. Engel relayed the information to Ornato, and probably, like all of us, embellished the story a little in the heat of the moment. When Ornato called Hutchinson into his office, and Engel related the story a second time, it got embellished a little more.

Secondly, in hindsight, I wish they would not have brought that matter up in the public forum. Ornato, as unreliable as he is, has given Trump supporters ammo now to use to show that this whole hearing is a farce and that democrats will make up whatever lies they want about Trump to get him. And, in reality, as exciting as it is from an "entertainment" standpoint, it's not that big of a deal in the overall matter. I can't imagine there is someone who has been watching the hearings, and paying attention to the evidence and testimony, and at the moment before she told this thought "Well, Trump's not a good guy, but I don't think that should affect him being re-elected or being charged," and suddenly after hearing about the incident in the car, thought "Arrest him now!!!" I just don't think that moved the needle much, and it overshadowed the much more significant, much more damning testimony she gave earlier.

 

[Incumbent]

Trump's steadfast supporters already aren't going to believe damaging testimony against him, nor believe that he has done anything wrong, or at least not anything unnecessary to fight the liberal socialist deep state blah blah blah.

Hutchinson's testimony can be seen as a challenge to others to testify on the record, under oath. Otherwise, people tweeting and sound-biting against her should be taken with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Guess this can go here
=================
Two top members of former President Donald Trump's personal security detail were "very, very close" to Trump and are "viewed as being aligned" with him, said Carol Leonnig, a long-time investigative reporter at The Washington Post.

Leonnig is the author of the book "Zero Fail: The Rise and Fall of the Secret Service" and co-author of "I Alone Can Fix It," which delves into Trump's final year as president.

Leonnig told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Wednesday evening that many Secret Service agents in Trump's detail were also rooting for President Joe Biden's failure, and used their social media accounts to "cheer on the insurrection" at the Capitol on January 6, 2021..........

Trump's security detail was 'aligned' with him and 'personally cheering for Biden to fail,' says author of book on the Secret Service

 

[MT15]

Okay - this is fascinating. The person in the SUV - is very animated and appears to be very far forward in the seat, leaning toward the front seat. I have heard there are cameras in the limo, don’t know if there are cameras in the SUV.

 

[DaveXA]

Okay - this is fascinating. The person in the SUV - is very animated and appears to be very far forward in the seat, leaning toward the front seat. I have heard there are cameras in the limo, don’t know if there are cameras in the SUV.

Tbh, there's nothing here. You would either need a better view or an agent on record stating what happened in the vehicle. The vehicle was not moving and didn't move at any point in the video.

If something can be gleaned from it, that's fine, but what's more important is the fact that he encouraged a coup attempt and knew armed individuals were on the way to the Capitol and made no effort to dissuade or stop the attack on the Capitol.

 

[MT15]

Tbh, there's nothing here. You would either need a better view or an agent on record stating what happened in the vehicle. The vehicle was not moving and didn't move at any point in the video.

If something can be gleaned from it, that's fine, but what's more important is the fact that he encouraged a coup attempt and knew armed individuals were on the way to the Capitol and made no effort to dissuade or stop the attack on the Capitol.

I don’t think the testimony said the SUV was moving, but I could be wrong.

I can clearly see a figure lunging forward, who knows?

 

[DaveXA]

I don’t think the testimony said the SUV was moving, but I could be wrong.

I can clearly see a figure lunging forward, who knows?

I see a figure moving, but that's really not saying much. Whether the vehicle was moving or not isn't really relevant anyway. I just don't see this video convincing anyone other than people seeing what the want to see. It's a waste of time if that's all they have. If they can find a witness that corroborates what the staffer testified to the other day, that would mean a lot more than the video.

It might help in that it goes to Trump's state of mind. It's already well known that he wanted to go to the Capitol and the SS basically said heck no. So this part isn't surprising.

 

[V Chip]

Those details are about the least important thing that Hutchinson testified to but are getting the bulk of the news now. It's sad how shallow Americans' focus can be on important issues.

 

[superchuck500]

Those details are about the least important thing that Hutchinson testified to but are getting the bulk of the news now. It's sad how shallow Americans' focus can be on important issues.

It also calls into question the calculus on including it in the committee's line of questioning. It's pretty much the one thing she didn't have some kind of first-hand account of - and it has given the opposition, looking for anything to grab on to, a stake in the ground . . . even if it actually happened.

I'm not sure what it really adds. She otherwise clearly testified that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol. Trump thought he was going to the Capitol. Cippoline said it was a terrible idea. Others pushed Meadows to avoid it. And when Trump learned it wasn't happening, he was angry about it. That's all you need.

The whole ordeal with the USSS in the SUV and that account paints a picture but it's not necessary - especially if it comes with its own bag of risk.

 

[V Chip]

It also calls into question the calculus on including it in the committee's line of questioning. It's pretty much the one thing she didn't have some kind of first-hand account of - and it has given the opposition, looking for anything to grab on to, a stake in the ground.

I'm not sure what it really adds. She otherwise clearly testified that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol. Trump thought he was going to the Capitol. Cippoline said it was a terrible idea. Others pushed Meadows to avoid it. And when Trump learned it wasn't happening, he was angry about it. That's all you need.

The whole ordeal with the USSS in the SUV and that account paints a picture but it's not necessary - especially if it comes with its own bag of risk.

My thought is they have other testimony to back it up somehow, but just a guess.

The main thing is Trump wanted people to be armed and then go to the Capitol, and that he was insistent upon it because "They’re not here to hurt *me*."

 

[superchuck500]

My thought is they have other testimony to back it up somehow, but just a guess.

The main thing is Trump wanted people to be armed and then go to the Capitol, and that he was insistent upon it because "They’re not here to hurt *me*."

Yeah, agree. I do think it's part of the context that he also envisioned that he would be there with this armed mob to do something.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So apparently, the story from Hutchison is more true than not...

The sources tell CNN that stories circulated about the incident – including details that are similar to how former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson described it to the House select committee investigating January 6 – in the months immediately afterward the US Capitol attack and before she testified this week.

While the details from those who heard the accounts differ, the Secret Service sources say they were told an angry confrontation did occur. And their accounts align with significant parts of Hutchinson’s testimony, which has been attacked as hearsay by Trump and his allies who also have tried to discredit her overall testimony.

Accounts of Trump angrily demanding to go to the Capitol on January 6 circulated in Secret Service over past year

Then-President Donald Trump angrily demanded to go to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, and berated his protective detail when he didn't get his way, according to two Secret Service sources who say they heard about the incident from multiple agents, including the driver of the presidential SUV...

www.cnn.com

 

[MT15]

Where is the shocked face baby, lol?

 

[Optimus Prime]

More crazy pastors
===============

Trump cultist MAGA pastor calls Cassidy Hutchinson a ‘lying witch’​

Gustaf Kilander - Washington DC


Small town Mississippi preacher turned viral video MAGA pastor Shane Vaughn blasted former Trump staffer Cassidy Hutchinson in an unhinged rant after the ex-aide to then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows shared explosive testimony with the House Select Committee investigating the attack on Congress on January 6 2021.

Mr Vaughn called Ms Hitchinson a “little witch,” among other things, during a video posted on FirstHarvest.tv, which has since made the rounds on Twitter.

“Standing there lying on the President of the United States of America, the only legitimate one, and you’re sitting there lying through your teeth because you are a witch,” he yells in the video. “You are a rebellious Jezebel with your little lezzie spirit.”

“You look like you’re a walking zombie. You lie. You lie. You lie. You lie. We know you lied. You know you lied. You’re a liar,” he added…….

Trump cultist MAGA pastor calls Cassidy Hutchinson a ‘lying witch’

‘You are a rebellious Jezebel with your little lezzie spirit’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Lapaz]

More crazy pastors
===============

Trump cultist MAGA pastor calls Cassidy Hutchinson a ‘lying witch’​

Gustaf Kilander - Washington DC


Small town Mississippi preacher turned viral video MAGA pastor Shane Vaughn blasted former Trump staffer Cassidy Hutchinson in an unhinged rant after the ex-aide to then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows shared explosive testimony with the House Select Committee investigating the attack on Congress on January 6 2021.

Mr Vaughn called Ms Hitchinson a “little witch,” among other things, during a video posted on FirstHarvest.tv, which has since made the rounds on Twitter.

“Standing there lying on the President of the United States of America, the only legitimate one, and you’re sitting there lying through your teeth because you are a witch,” he yells in the video. “You are a rebellious Jezebel with your little lezzie spirit.”

“You look like you’re a walking zombie. You lie. You lie. You lie. You lie. We know you lied. You know you lied. You’re a liar,” he added…….

Trump cultist MAGA pastor calls Cassidy Hutchinson a ‘lying witch’

‘You are a rebellious Jezebel with your little lezzie spirit’

www.independent.co.uk

It's insane how many people are caught up in the Trump cult hysteria! I feel like this country is becoming very dangerous to the world, because there are so many Trumpist people, that I think we are close to becoming a failed democracy, and we have the most powerful military in the world. I imagine that Europeans are having this conversation.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

This could go into numerous threads but I'll put it here. It's a good piece from The Economists that I think most of us know is true but is rarely stated so clearly and unquestionably.
======================================================


"The courage of Cassidy Hutchinson

Even without Donald Trump, says our departing columnist, the Republican Party may be unreformable​

Jun 30th 2022
Americans learned something shocking from Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to the January 6th committee this week, but it was not about Donald Trump. The fact that the 45th president is vile and corrupt was clear long before he won the Republican nomination in 2016. What was more remarkable about the 26-year-old former White House aide’s account of events before and during the Capitol Hill riot was that someone so embedded in Trumpworld had the moral compass to provide it.

Matter-of-factly, Ms Hutchinson described overhearing Mr Trump being informed that the maga crowd had guns and in response suggesting it be allowed to keep them. That was before he instructed its members to go to the Capitol and “fight like hell”. She told the committee that she heard Mr Trump had to be restrained by his security detail after he tried to lead the mob there. No one with her proximity to the president had broken ranks so devastatingly. ....................

...............................

Neither will Mike Pence, whom Mr Trump slammed on Twitter even as the maga mob were baying for him to be hanged. Mr Trump thought he perhaps deserved to be, Ms Hutchinson told the committee, on which just two of the 210 Republican House members are serving. Few of the party’s leaders have to this day denounced Mr Trump. And some of them, including Mitch McConnell and Bill Barr, say they will still vote for him if he is the Republican candidate in 2024. Most Republican voters want him to be.

This embrace of the unconscionable by millions of otherwise reasonable Americans is by far the biggest novelty of the Trump era. By comparison, the paranoia and bigotry of the Capitol Hill rioters was old hat. Around a quarter of Americans have always expressed such sentiments. They represent the “paranoid style” in American politics described by the sociologist Richard Hofstadter, in a famous essay on the populist eruptions inspired by Barry Goldwater, George Wallace and through American history. The current eruption, Mr Trump’s maga base, represents around half the Republican coalition. Yet the real puzzle is why the other half, including amiable conservatives up and down the country, have gone along with it. They are why Mr Trump succeeded where Goldwater failed, why he remains such a threat; and no political question has exercised your columnist more.

Economic privation was an early explanation—which never squared with the gleaming trucks parked outside Mr Trump’s rallies. Disinformation and racism were more convincing suggestions, but insufficient. Many Republicans knew all along what Mr Trump was; many are not racist. The main reason for Republicans’ capitulation to Mr Trump is simpler. They hate their political opponents, who are his main enemy, which made him their friend. Political scientists have a term for such hyper-partisanship, “affective polarisation”, and it is far more pronounced on the right than on the left. Swathes of white America are resentful and fearful of diversity, rampant liberalism and other big ways in which America is changing, which they blame on the left. This cultural outlook has become the main difference between the two parties. Whereas Democrats are positive about America’s multiracial future, most Republicans say the country is “in danger of losing its culture and identity”. Mr Trump agreed, swore to fight back and they loved him for it.

Not all societies undergoing disruptive change succumb to demagogues. And America has unusual defensive strengths, including the vigour of its economy, institutions and civil society. Provided Mr Trump can be stopped, which seems likelier than not, it is in theory easy to think that the right will return to sanity. Yet the reality looks darker, partly because of the structural advantages that are sparing Republicans the electoral reckoning their dalliance with Mr Trump merits. Republicans are getting more power than the Democrats through the electoral college and Senate with fewer votes. And they were successfully compounding that undemocratic edge through all manner of ways to defy the majority, from judicial activism to gerrymandering, even before Mr Trump took it a stage further by trying to steal an election."

https://www.economist.com/united-st...keting-cloud&utm_term=7/1/2022&utm_id=1222418

 

[MT15]

Trump's steadfast supporters already aren't going to believe damaging testimony against him, nor believe that he has done anything wrong, or at least not anything unnecessary to fight the liberal socialist deep state blah blah blah.

Hutchinson's testimony can be seen as a challenge to others to testify on the record, under oath. Otherwise, people tweeting and sound-biting against her should be taken with a giant grain of salt.

And here we go: