General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (11 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Optimus Prime]

When Emerald Medrano learned Joe Biden was dropping out of the 2024 presidential election and endorsing Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee, Medrano knew he had to speak now – as his favorite artist, Taylor Swift, would say.

“I feel like us US Swifties should mass organize and help campaign for Kamala Harris and spread how horrendous Project 2025 would be to help get people’s butts down to the polls in November,” the 22-year-old posted to his 70,000 followers. He added a sobbing emoji. “Like if we don’t want democracy to end we really need to move and push blue votes.”

Fourteen thousand likes later, the coalition Swifties4Kamala was born. Dozens of people signed up to help and run accounts on X, Instagram and TikTok, as well as strategize activities and communications. Within three weeks, Swifties4Kamala amassed more than 180,000 followers across its social media platforms.


Twenty-four hours after Swifties4Kamala announced its kick-off Zoom call, scheduled for 27 August, more than 5,000 people had signed up to join, according to April Glick Pulito, the coalition’s political director.……

Getting back together: Swifties mobilize to support Kamala Harris

Swifties4Kamala has 180,000 followers as fans of world’s most famous ‘childless cat lady’ emerge as political force

www.theguardian.com

 

[Taurus]

That is not realistic nor something I want. I'm not happy he will be on the ballot this November. Same old same old. Nothing new from me. I thought I had something useful to contribute here today but I guess I should have just stayed away.

That's the thing about these kinds of movements, whether they call themselves National Socialists, National Chauvinists, Peasant Populists or whatever. Whenever the government sets up an "Us and a Them" within the country, the Us gets smaller and smaller, the Them gets bigger and bigger and it's not long before the Us start killing Them in order to "Keep the peace" or "Purge the impure" or whatever they call it.

 

[LA - L.A.]

..........Trump's campaign managers surely know that the more voters see Trump, the more they hate him. Trump's team didn't go after President Joe Biden on the age issue just because it was low-hanging fruit. It was also a way to distract from the fact that their own candidate, who was never that cogent to begin with, is rapidly decompensating from age and the stress of being convicted of 34 felonies. Now Biden's out, and the "Is the candidate too old?" spotlight is on Trump.

Republicans won't be following Democrats by changing their candidate, however. Unlike Biden, Trump is a narcissist who will never accept the truth about his decline. And unlike Democrats, Republicans are too afraid of their leader to tell him the truth. But it's also clear that the GOP wishes they could do a switcharoo. Right now, the Trump campaign is acting like their candidate is not the ranting orange degenerate at all, but his much younger — though still quite weird — running mate, Sen. JD Vance of Ohio.

Vance has been tailing Harris across her swing state tour. On their own, his events have been failures, with crowds "generally in the dozens or low hundreds," Dana Milbank of the Washington Post reported. But, because reporters are already in town to cover the overflowing Harris rallies, Vance has been able to get press attention. So with Trump hiding out at Mar-a-Lago, Vance is the face representing the campaign.

Someone casually tuning in would possibly think that the Republicans, following the Democrats' lead, had dumped their elderly candidate for someone younger. On Sunday, for example, Vance appeared on three — ABC News’ “This Week,” CBS News’ “Face the Nation,” and CNN’s “State of the Union” — out of five major Sunday political news shows.

At first blush, this would seem like a poor idea. Vance lacks charisma, isn't half as clever as he thinks, and has spent so much time marinating in the world of extremely online fascism that he just seems weird. He's a bearded doppelganger for the equally charmless Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, who Republican voters couldn't reject fast enough during the presidential primary. Running a carbon copy of a guy who couldn't beat Trump in a primary seems, on paper, to be a uniquely stupid campaign strategy.

Under the circumstances, however, it makes sense. Vance is annoying, but he can speak in complete sentences, largely avoiding all talk of electrocution sharks and Hannibal Lecter.

There are fewer logistical issues in a Vance-centric campaign, as well. He's decades younger than Trump, and so has the energy to travel. Even if the rumors that he wears eyeliner are true, Vance cannot need the hours Trump must spend in hair and makeup just to be seen in public. No doubt the campaign wishes they had a substitute candidate who was less aggravating, but Vance surely looks better than their alternative: an ever-nuttier Donald Trump...........

The GOP hasn't replaced their nominee, but they're pretending they did

Donald Trump's running mate weirds voters out, but at least he's not an incoherent mess like his boss

www.salon.com

MSN

www.msn.com

The moment Trump sees Vance as stealing his spotlight, Trump will start attacking his own VP. I think that would be the final nail in the coffin for Trump-Vance. Other things may lead to dirt being thrown on the nailed shut coffin, but Trump turning on Vance would be what seals the deal.

 

[Lapaz]

If you or others think that the Irish people in my video want an authoritarian leader you are wrong. If you think the many people in America who have similar beliefs as I do...if you think we want an authoritarian government then you are wrong. We want our current government system to enforce the law...and we support our police department too.

You may not want an authoritarian leader, but Trump admires authoritarians, and denigrates democratic countries. There are Republicans that don't want authoritarianism, but the party has chosen the authoritarian wanna-be, and are eliminating the checks and balances to facilitate it. Project 2025 is part of the plan, because professionals that serve many administrations won't break the law for Trump the way his vetted acolytes will. If he somehow wins, I can see the dumb comments coming from his voters that they didn't think he was serious. That they thought it couldn't happen in America. His intentions are so easily foreseeable to even casual observers, but it's willful ignorance and cognitive dissonance. But we're Amurica, and Trump is owning the libs, so who cares what he intends to do. /s

 

[LA - L.A.]

That's an example of exactly what you say it isn't.

I'll write more if necessary when I can, but to put it bluntly, "all our problems are because of immigrants" is false, dangerous, and exactly the kind of dehumanising and ultimately hateful rhetoric national populism is built on.

Fascists rarely see the fascism in the fascist things they believe. Most of them believe they are just protecting and preserving themselves, without realizing that "themselves" is a specific looking type from a specific place with specific religious beliefs. They think that only "themselves" are decent and safe neighbors, everyone else is criminal, foreign, vermin that destroy all of their stuff and make them unsafe. But sure, there's no dark bigotry in any of that, it's just people wanting to be safe.

 

[LA - L.A.]

If you or others think that the Irish people in my video want an authoritarian leader you are wrong. If you think the many people in America who have similar beliefs as I do...if you think we want an authoritarian government then you are wrong. We want our current government system to enforce the law...and we support our police department too.

An authoritarian government that shares one's beliefs doesn't seem like an authoritarian government.

 

[not2rich]

An authoritarian government that shares one's beliefs doesn't seem like an authoritarian government.

Yeah. Some of these 2A types that like to think they’re anti-tyranny would totally support tyranny as long as it’s their flavor.

 

[SamAndreas]

Former Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has said she would serve a second term under Donald Trump if he wins in November, despite previously resigning from his administration after the attack on the U.S. capitol on Jan. 6, The Detroit News reported.

DeVos resigned in 2021, the day after the attack, calling it “unconscionable for our country” and directly blaming Trump’s rhetoric for inciting violence.

The Michigan billionaire told The Detroit News she would resume her post only under certain conditions, though she was doubtful Trump would bring her back on.

"I don't think President Trump would ask me to again. But if he did, I would want to do so only if it was with the goal of phasing out the Department of Education as we tried to do through budgetary process in the first administration," Devos said. "And also getting a commitment to passing a major education freedom bill in the form of a tax credit mechanism at the Department of Treasury."

While she was secretary of Education, DeVos, who had no prior experience working in the field, foughtfor the privatization of public schools, rolled back protections for transgender students and advocated for guns in schools.

In her 2021 resignation letter, DeVos wrote that her tenure gave her the opportunity to advocate for “the forgotten students the traditional system leaves behind,” particularly throughout the global pandemic.

Despite her previous misgivings, DeVos last week said she is “definitely supporting the Republican ticket,” The Detroit News reported.…….

Betsy DeVos would work for Trump again if he agreed to "phasing out" the Department of Education

The former secretary of Education resigned after the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol

www.salon.com

So basically she comes through as a nothing.

Why are we talking about her?


This is interesting:

 

[Optimus Prime]

Nearly three dozen officials who have refused to certify elections since 2020 remain in office and will play a role in certifying the presidential vote in nearly every battleground state this fall, according to a new report by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew), a watchdog group.

The report underscores the concerns that Donald Trump and allies will attack the certification process at the local level as part of any possible effort to contest a loss in the election.

In a presidential election, there are tight deadlines at the local, state and federal levels to certify the vote. Delaying the vote at the local level could cause states to miss deadlines and open up protracted court battles and give oxygen to conspiracy theories.

Concerns about certification also escalated this month when the state board of election in Georgia passed a new rule that allows local election officials to conduct a “reasonable inquiry” if they believe there is a discrepancy in the results.

“The legal ground game that was brought to bear against certifying the election in 2020 was junior varsity compared to what we are going to see this year,” said Joshua Matz, a lawyer on the board of Crew.

“There is now a much better organized, much more sophisticated, far better funded and far more intentional effort to thwart the smooth and steady certification of election results required by the law.”……

Nearly 36 officials who refused to certify 2020 election result still in office – report

Watchdog group’s finding underscores concerns Trump and allies will attack in election certification in swing states

www.theguardian.com

 

[RobF]

We want our current government system to enforce the law...and we support our police department too.

That stance isn't separate from authoritarianism, as authoritarians are generally quite big on enforcing the law against others and using the police to do it.

That is not realistic nor something I want.

Right. So you're going to need to think about and elaborate on what you mean by 'the law' it is that you want enforced, what that would mean in practice, and how, exactly, it would solve the problems you're ostensibly concerned about.

National populism typically relies on you not doing that. Because what they're typically proposing, in practice, is not what you think it is, and it won't solve any problems, except the one problem their leaders are actually concerned about (i.e. how to get themselves in power).

 

[Taurus]

Yeah. Some of these 2A types that like to think they’re anti-tyranny would totally support tyranny as long as it’s their flavor.

We saw them do it in 2020.

 

[SaintForLife]

We really need a better breed of Republican's on this board to discuss topics with.

Someone link a how a bill is passed for SFL. You know the cartoon version we all watched as kids.

Your pattern is so well known by now and transparent. You always move to the insults when the discussion isn't going your way.

 

[SaintForLife]

I think today's National Populists are just trying not to become overwhelmed by the huge number of people from other areas of the globe...moving in to their country and severely straining the resources of their government.
I really don't like it when people take something that is contemporary and they throw in Hitler or Nazis to create drama.
Here is a current European example...
The long time native residents....the people of Dublin Ireland for example feel that the number of immigrants that have swelled in their city have created so many problems. They are urging their government to care about them....the Dubliners....We were born here and lived here for decades...can you (the Irish Government)....can you pay attention to us...please?
That's just one example of what many people are feeling in Europe.
Those people are NOT seeking a Hitler or a Nazi party. They aren't!
*
*

They have been trained by the corporate media to smear anyone who is in or supports a populist movement by comparing the movement to Hitler.

Current populist movements are endangering the elites running the countries into the ground on the backs of the citizens. Populist movements want to put the power back in the hands of the citizens and that's why there is an effort by the elites world wide to try to smear and stop any populist movements.

 

[efil4]

Your pattern is so well known by now and transparent. You always move to the insults when the discussion isn't going your way.

it wasnt an insult

it was educational for you since you really dont know how a bill moves thru Congress. ( among many other things )

( as evidenced by your "defensive" reply about being insulted )

 

[coldseat]

They have been trained by the corporate media to smear anyone who is in or supports a populist movement by comparing the movement to Hitler.

Current populist movements are endangering the elites running the countries into the ground on the backs of the citizens. Populist movements want to put the power back in the hands of the citizens and that's why there is an effort by the elites world wide to try to smear and stop any populist movements.

Yep, all us here are in it for the elites. Go ahead and vote for Trump, he's totally a regular dude.

 

[RobF]

I think today's National Populists are just trying not to become overwhelmed by the huge number of people from other areas of the globe...moving in to their country and severely straining the resources of their government.
I really don't like it when people take something that is contemporary and they throw in Hitler or Nazis to create drama.
Here is a current European example...
The long time native residents....the people of Dublin Ireland for example feel that the number of immigrants that have swelled in their city have created so many problems. They are urging their government to care about them....the Dubliners....We were born here and lived here for decades...can you (the Irish Government)....can you pay attention to us...please?
That's just one example of what many people are feeling in Europe.
Those people are NOT seeking a Hitler or a Nazi party. They aren't!
*
*

OK, I've got a minute, so let's briefly go over this.

So right here, what's being used is rhetoric, not facts. First, let's take it phrase by phrase and see what's actually been said:

"the people of Dublin Ireland for example feel that the number of immigrants that have swelled in their city have created so many problems"

So here, rhetoric is being used to get across - at best misleadingly and at worst outright wrongly, as I'll come to in a moment - some of the classic national populist tropes: vague allusions to 'so many problems', blaming immigrants for those problems, and literally appealing to populism by implying that this is a view held by everyone.

"They are urging their government to care about them....the Dubliners....We were born here and lived here for decades...can you (the Irish Government)....can you pay attention to us...please?"

And this is more rhetoric, again used to convey some of the national populist tropes: that the government doesn't care about them (with the implication that it does care about immigrants, as is further suggested in another post ("they just want their own government ... to prioritize THEM and not the newcomers.")), and the notion that the lives of people born somewhere matter more than the lives of people born somewhere else.

Putting that together, what we have is the premise that people born locally matter most, that what they think should be acted upon, and what they think is that immigrants are the cause of "so many problems".

Now I suspect that @SteveSBrickNJ is just repeating rhetoric here and hasn't necessarily thought about what it means, but what it clearly means is an attack on immigrants; it simultaneously seeks to smear them as responsible for 'so many problems' and devalue their lives and contributions as less than those 'born here'. @SteveSBrickNJ doesn't want people to throw in 'Nazis' or 'Hitler' to create drama, but, honestly, if you start repeating the rhetoric from Nazism 101, you can't be surprised if people are going to mention it. If you do find yourself doing that without realising it, people pointing it out should prompt you to question the rhetoric; not the response.

So that's the rhetoric. Now let's hit up the reality.

So first, problems. What problems? Well, there are problems in Dublin, and vulnerable people are being attacked. Specifically, immigrants. Immigrants, including refugees are being attacked. Because of rhetoric like the above, and worse:

Protesters attack police and set fires outside Dublin asylum seeker site

Irish PM Simon Harris called the violence "reprehensible" after a crowd gathered outside a site designated to house asylum seekers and began attacking police officers.

news.sky.com

Asylum seekers in Dublin reportedly attacked by people with knives

Fifteen people forced to flee hours after erecting makeshift camp as tents reportedly slashed and thrown in river

www.theguardian.com

Ireland is turning violently against migrants - Tortoise

A housing shortage is being used to radicalise anti-migrant opinion in the land of a “hundred thousand welcomes”

www.tortoisemedia.com

(Edit to emphasise; that is violence, criminal violence, targeted at the most vulnerable, driven by false rhetoric. It is not, as some claim elsewhere, 'people expressing legitimate concerns'. That's not how you express concerns, and they're not legitimate.).

And as mentioned in those articles, there are also the same problems in Dublin as there are in many other places, in particular, cost of living increases, and housing shortages.

So we have some problems. So, second, who created those problems? Now those are obviously complex issues. But some of the background to that is that Ireland, and Dublin in particular, managed to rapidly grow their economy through attracting foreign investment massively from the late 90s through to today, aside from economic downturns around 2008-2012, and in 2023. Through being in the EU and low corporate tax rates, they attracted multinational companies to establish their headquarters there.

At the start of that period, the 1990s, Ireland had high poverty, unemployment, and inflation. But this growth took them to one of the wealthiest; in 2023, Ireland had the second highest level of GDP per person in the EU (source). Unemployment went down, disposable incomes increased, life expectancy and quality of life went up.

This also came with rising inequality, as with everywhere else (Ireland is close to the EU average).

And with that economic boom came immigration. Ireland had a trend of emigration, but this reversed naturally, as growth creates jobs. Without those jobs being filled, including by migrants, you don't get the investment, you don't get the growth, etc.

So what we have is a background of things greatly improving for the population of Ireland overall, over the last couple of decades, significantly because of foreign investment, and immigration, driving it.

But - again, as in many other places - we have some people being left behind. I mentioned inequality. House prices have shot up and it's harder to get on the housing ladder. Homelessness in Ireland disproportionately impacts groups including the young, the disabled, and non-EU migrants. Property is seen, too frequently, as source of wealth rather than of human necessity, with construction and property responsible for the wealth of a quarter of Ireland's 100 wealthiest people by 2017.

So what cause that inequality and housing shortages? Some big factors there are a lack of adequate regulation, taxation, and, to put it bluntly, capitalist greed. The private housing sector left to its own devices has repeatedly shown that, in seeking profit, it fails to provide suitable accommodation to meet demand.

But we're not looking to show what the causes are here, we're looking to show what they're not. Specifically, they're not caused by immigrants. A simplistic - and wrong - view would try to blame it on immigrants on the basis that "they drive up demand for it", but that ignores the fact that immigrants also provide labour to construct it as well. That is, immigrants bring supply and demand, as does everyone else. Additionally, the immigrants actually being targeted are typically the poorest, who, as mentioned, are more likely to be homeless than they are to be outbidding other people on housing. To put it simply, immigrants aren't generally responsible for taxation policies, addressing inequality, or housing construction. Those are the main underlying causes of the problems.

So what we have is the typical situation where some people are struggling, and, since the people actually responsible tend to be those in government who failed to regulate the appropriate sectors and address the underlying problems as they developed, and those in business who profited from them doing so, the wrong people being blamed.

And then we have national populists, seeking power, all too ready to take full advantage of that situation through the kind of misleading rhetoric I've addressed above, similar rhetoric (e.g. claiming that the existing population aren't able to get more support in terms of income support, housing, etc., than immigrants can, which is always false), and worse; such as (often falsely, as recently in the UK) blaming refugees for crimes, which in itself is harmful rhetoric (as it makes no more sense to take a single refugee's criminal action as representative of all refugees, than it would make sense to take a single citizen's criminal action as representative of all citizens; anyone doing so is already displaying disturbing prejudice, particular as, typically, the reality shows immigrants and refugees tend to be less likely to commit crimes).

So I'll leave it there. Hope that helps.

 

[SaintForLife]

Yep, all us here are in it for the elites. Go ahead and vote for Trump, he's totally a regular dude.

Who do you think the corporate media serves?

 

[efil4]

I sure hope you made some moves on Aug 4 to take advantage of the buying opportunities.

Thanks Biden/Harris