General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (10 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[RobF]

I think today's National Populists are just trying not to become overwhelmed by the huge number of people from other areas of the globe...moving in to their country and severely straining the resources of their government.
I really don't like it when people take something that is contemporary and they throw in Hitler or Nazis to create drama.
Here is a current European example...
The long time native residents....the people of Dublin Ireland for example feel that the number of immigrants that have swelled in their city have created so many problems. They are urging their government to care about them....the Dubliners....We were born here and lived here for decades...can you (the Irish Government)....can you pay attention to us...please?
That's just one example of what many people are feeling in Europe.
Those people are NOT seeking a Hitler or a Nazi party. They aren't!
*
*

That's an example of exactly what you say it isn't.

I'll write more if necessary when I can, but to put it bluntly, "all our problems are because of immigrants" is false, dangerous, and exactly the kind of dehumanising and ultimately hateful rhetoric national populism is built on.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

That's an example of exactly what you say it isn't.

I'll write more if necessary when I can, but to put it bluntly, "all our problems are because of immigrants" is false, dangerous, and exactly the kind of dehumanising and ultimately hateful rhetoric national populism is built on.

The people in the video remember their city "before" and they compare it to "now". "Before" they felt safe....now some of them don't. I think there are people in some USA cities that feel the same way.
In my book that's not "dehumanizing"....those people who want to feel safe are simply looking out for themselves.

 

[coldseat]

I think today's National Populists are just trying not to become overwhelmed by the huge number of people from other areas of the globe...moving in to their country and severely straining the resources of their government.
I really don't like it when people take something that is contemporary and they throw in Hitler or Nazis to create drama.
Here is a current European example...
The long time native residents....the people of Dublin Ireland for example feel that the number of immigrants that have swelled in their city have created so many problems. They are urging their government to care about them....the Dubliners....We were born here and lived here for decades...can you (the Irish Government)....can you pay attention to us...please?
That's just one example of what many people are feeling in Europe.
Those people are NOT seeking a Hitler or a Nazi party. They aren't!
*
*

IDK, that what you say is true. There is a lot of vile and hate behind those movements and they copy a lot of the aspects of Hitler's national populism. Why follow something that has already proven to produce mass atrocities in the wrong hands? As I already noted, those movements already have authoritarians behind them.

BTW, you don't need to be a populist nationalist to speak to or address amnesty and immigration issues in a level headed, non-vitriolic way that actually addresses the problems and brings solution. If anything, those national populist movements make it harder to address this issues (as we've seen here in the US with Trump) in a comprehensive and logical way that achieve lasting solutions because they're often built with so much lies and hatred that it makes rational solutions impossible to reach.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

IDK, that what you say is true. There is a lot of vile and hate behind those movements and they copy a lot of the aspects of Hitler's national populism. Why follow something that has already proven to produce mass atrocities in the wrong hands? As I already noted, those movements already have authoritarians behind them.

BTW, you don't need to be a populist nationalist to speak to or address amnesty and immigration issues in a level headed, non-vitriolic way that actually addresses the problems and brings solution. If anything, those national populist movements make it harder to address this issues (as we've seen here in the US with Trump) in a comprehensive and logical way that achieve lasting solutions because they're often built with so much lies and hatred that it makes rational solutions impossible to reach.

This post seems a little bit more reasonable.
I'll consider what you've said but I wish you would consider that people rising up in the street with picket signs are just feeling frustrated and desperate. They don't want an authoritarian....they just want their own government ...their current government to prioritize THEM and not the newcomers.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I was wanting to learn more about the opening sentence of what I quoted. I googled and received this response: "According to Roger Eatwell and Matthew Goodwin, "NATIONAL POPULISTS prioritize the culture and interests of the nation , and promise to give voice to a people who feel neglected..."
So, if that is true, I would not use the phrase "dark forces" that is part of the opening sentence I quoted.

I’d argue that ‘Dark Forces’ always say they prioritize things like that

“We’re just looking out for the people, the forgotten people” with a healthy dash of “we’re just trying to protect the children”

Innocuous sounding aims that everyone should be able to get behind

“Prioritize the culture of the nation” sounds good

(but in these melting pot multi cultural populations what does ‘prioritize the culture’ really mean)

Protecting children? Who could be against that?

And it’s presented as that black and white you’re either for us and these goals or against

So when the darkness of the ‘dark forces’ appears and gets darker it can be hard to see it or hard to get out

“Oh, so now you’re ok with not for preserving our culture? You’re okay with what’s happening to children?”

 

[Optimus Prime]

Good article
=========
I didn’t get a call from my son on Father’s Day this year. Our political disagreements have made things hard.

I’m a 59-year-old progressive and a special education teacher, and I’m voting for Kamala Harris in November.

Nick* is 21, and he would say that he holds traditional, conservative values – but he’s conflating those values with radical Maga ideas, which correlate the right with patriotism, manhood, intelligence, independence and honesty.

I understand where my son’s vulnerabilities came from, and why this rightwing posturing was able to seep into him. I understand it, but I still regret it.

Nick’s mom and I wanted to teach our son that democracy is an active sport. You don’t just sit back and watch. We lived in Houston, in the belly of the petrochemical beast, and I remember going to a demonstration against Halliburton, the Iraq war, and Dick Cheney’s role in the company.

Groups brought puppets – it was almost like street theater – and we rolled Nick along in his stroller. That was the community we were plugged into: artists, musicians, teachers, writers. That’s how Nick came up.

Nick was a sweet kid. He was really quiet. He’s on the upper end of the autism spectrum, so he can have difficulty interpreting social cues. All he wanted to do was follow whatever the big kids were doing.

Nick never found a person that he could really link or vibe with. He loves animals, though. We let him get a dog when he was young, and that allowed him to be more than a follower.

He was all about serving the dog’s interest. I’ve seen Nick’s heart melt – he can’t tolerate cruelty to animals or people who are vulnerable, which feels ironic, given his politics now.

Some of the older guys at school who Nick was trying to emulate were really into building computers, hacking and the dark web.

He got online as a teen, joined some far-right message boards, and I think that’s where he got massaged into these rightwing positions. He started echoing those points, and then he got praise from whatever knuckleheads posted that crap – it became a spiral.

Nick was kind of lost, but on the internet, he was able to be a different person, to have more confidence and show off how bright he is.

We had moved to the Bay Area in 2017, after Trump won the election. Nick was 15 or 16 when he said that he liked Trump. I can understand how Trump appealed to a childish sensibility: he’s this clownish figure who does whatever he wants.

I also know that when you come of age, you want to reject your parents’ beliefs. My father was a Reagan Republican who was really old school, values wise.

A lot of my political development was a rejection of his values, so I wonder now how much of Nick’s fascination with Maga is a reaction against the way I brought him up……….

My son was struggling – then he fell for Trump’s toxic brand of ‘masculinity’. I’m heartbroken

A progressive father on how Maga drove a wedge between him and his son – and how he’s trying to salvage their relationship

www.theguardian.com

 

[coldseat]

This post seems a little bit more reasonable.
I'll consider what you've said but I wish you would consider that people rising up in the street with picket signs are just feeling frustrated and desperate. They don't want an authoritarian....they just want their own government ...their current government to prioritize THEM and not the newcomers.

I understand people feeling frustrated and desperate. Believe me when I say this isn't a feeling that only belongs to people on the right. This is why Harris's candidacy has really taken off, because she is giving people something else to feel and believe in (i.e. Joy, hope, a future not so consumed with anger, etc.). It's all those feelings that people in this country have been desperate for and that's why its catching on.

Immigration and amnesty has become a world wide problem with people fleeing war torn areas, oppressive/authoritarian regimes, crime and economic disparity, etc. More authoritarian regimes is not going to make this problem any better. It's natural that people living in countries where people are fleeing to are concerned about the influx of people. Immigration and immigrants do bring problems and challenges and it's clear we haven't figured out how to manage those yet. Our immigration system is broken, so it makes sense people feel frustrated. But the denigration and dehumanization of immigrants that often comes out of the right, isn't going to solve anybody's frustrations.

It also helps to consider how immigrants and immigrations help our country so that we can work our way to a solution that helps all of us and doesn't just close up our country and hurt us. For example, there is no way we can logically deport all of the illegal immigrants currently in the country. That would literally destroy this country, so why are so many people hell bent on making that happen? There is a much better solution than that rhetoric.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Ann Coulter doubling down on Trumps comments

Not only is Harris not ‘really’ black what black she is isn’t ’really black’ or foundational black as she calls it

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Tips should be taxed. Base pay for servers should be higher than $2.77/hr.

This is the correct answer. It is income just like anything else. And I say this as someone who worked in the hotel industry throughout college.

 

[bird]

Ann Coulter doubling down on Trumps comments

Not only is Harris not ‘really’ black what black she is isn’t ’really black’ or foundational black as she calls it

Ann Coulter, another talking bobblehead that is past her best by date. Still trying to be relevant. Still failing.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I understand people feeling frustrated and desperate. Believe me when I say this isn't a feeling that only belongs to people on the right. This is why Harris's candidacy has really taken off, because she is giving people something else to feel and believe in (i.e. Joy, hope, a future not so consumed with anger, etc.). It's all those feelings that people in this country have been desperate for and that's why its catching on.

Immigration and amnesty has become a world wide problem with people fleeing war torn areas, oppressive/authoritarian regimes, crime and economic disparity, etc. More authoritarian regimes is not going to make this problem any better. It's natural that people living in countries where people are fleeing to are concerned about the influx of people. Immigration and immigrants do bring problems and challenges and it's clear we haven't figured out how to manage those yet. Our immigration system is broken, so it makes sense people feel frustrated. But the denigration and dehumanization of immigrants that often comes out of the right, isn't going to solve anybody's frustrations.

It also helps to consider how immigrants and immigrations help our country so that we can work our way to a solution that helps all of us and doesn't just close up our country and hurt us. For example, there is no way we can logically deport all of the illegal immigrants currently in the country. That would literally destroy this country, so why are so many people hell bent on making that happen? There is a much better solution than that rhetoric.

I am not for authoritarianism and I recognize that the people who came thru Ellis Island enriched this country and made it the melting pot that it is today. I AM in favor of people today becoming conditional permanent residents...then green card permanent residents....then eventually citizens. That's what my wife did. That's what's called following the law and playing by the rules. I am NOT in favor of people who are smuggled in or swim across the Rio Grande.

 

[SaintForLife]

This is by design. The corporate media is pulling out all the stops to help Harris.

 

[Dragon]

The irony of the whole immigration discussion and maybe also part of why some people are feeling threatned, is that most industrialised nations have a declining population and immigrant could be part of the solution. But immigrants bring new customs, new words and in some cases new religions. In order to make the fusion work it is essential that all sides show mutial respect and uphold the law with strict consequences for lawbreakers. It is also essential that those who immigrate learn about and respect the culture they immigrate into. - Notice I said learn and respect - not asimilate, On the other hand it is also important that immigrants are treated with the same respect because after all it is a way to enrich a culture on multiple fronts.

In Denmark which is a fairly homogeneous population we have still had several immigration groups over the years. Jews and gypsies fleeing procecution in Catholic countries 200 years ago, Polish workes immigrating as farmworkers mostly in the southern part of the country, Yugoslavian and Tyrkish factory workers 60 years ago when I was a kid and most have managed to intergrate in our society -adding their specialty and some traditions, foods and other to our culture,

On the other side is the fact that "others" be it immigrants, LBGT+, or anyone who is different are easy targets for demagogues as a mean to power made a lot worse by social media and AI so I really dont know what the solution is

 

[Saint Jack]

This is by design. The corporate media is pulling out all the stops to help Harris.

That’s not true! The Right has a major celebrity working on debate strategy!

 

[SamAndreas]

This is by design. The corporate media is pulling out all the stops to help Harris.

Yeah!! I'll be able to hear it.

Pulling out all of the stops is good and loud.

 

[SaintForLife]

Yeah!! I'll be able to hear it.

Pulling out all of the stops is good and loud.

You'll admit the media supports Democrats right?

 

[SaintForLife]

That’s not true! The Right has a major celebrity working on debate strategy!

That totally refutes the media not reporting about what Harris would do as President! Look how good a job Time is doing:

 

[Saint Jack]

That totally refutes the media not reporting about what Harris would do as President! Look how good a job Time is doing:

What exactly do you want?
Trump has been acting like a raving lunatic!