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First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    The point is to accept election results, both primary and general election results, as final, not to try to overturn them when one doesn't like it.

    This stinks of a January 6th kind of debacle. What the hell did they not learn?

    Democrats didn't run a primary. Maybe, in name, but not in spirit. Joe was the incumbent, and no one wanted to be ostracized over it.

    You also need to remember these words for November, because Joe is lying about one very important thing. He did NOT overperform the polls in 2020. He is very likely going to lose.
     
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    It's a well known "rumor" that Obama did not back Biden in 2016 so he didn't run.

    This article expresses what I remember; that Biden waited too long to make a decision as he and his family were dealing with Beau’s illness and death.

    The thinking was he was too far behind in polling and money, at that point.

    ——————————————————

    Against this backdrop, which had been building for several months as Biden vacillated, Obama was concerned that a Biden entry would be too late, in the face of Clinton's lead, and would be difficult for the grief-stricken candidate to overcome, New York Times correspondent Peter Baker reported.

    "By the time that Mr. Biden began weighing a campaign, the president had long since concluded that Hillary Clinton had the best chance of winning in 2016," Baker wrote in April 2019. "Beyond that, Mr. Biden was awash in grief over the death of his son, hardly the state of mind for a grueling presidential marathon."

     
    This article expresses what I remember; that Biden waited too long to make a decision as he and his family were dealing with Beau’s illness and death.

    The thinking was he was too far behind in polling and money, at that point.

    "By the time that Mr. Biden began weighing a campaign, the president had long since concluded that Hillary Clinton had the best chance of winning in 2016," Baker wrote in April 2019. "Beyond that, Mr. Biden was awash in grief over the death of his son, hardly the state of mind for a grueling presidential marathon."


    That article is probably a response to this one from politico considering they are 3 months apart.

     
    That article is probably a response to this one from politico considering they are 3 months apart.


    That article covers just about every possible angle. Big decisions typically involve a lot of considerations. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that Biden waited too long to make a decision - that much is a fact.

    “I also believe he had concluded that Hillary Clinton was almost certain to be the nominee, which was good by him,” Biden wrote. A campaign spokesperson added that in the meeting, Obama also said, “If I could appoint anyone to be president over the next eight years, Joe, it would be you.”
     
    Democrats didn't run a primary. Maybe, in name, but not in spirit. Joe was the incumbent, and no wanted to be ostracized over it.

    You also need to remember these words for November, because Joe is lying about one very important thing. He did NOT overperform the polls in 2020. He is very likely going to lose.
    I voted in a Democratic Party primary. End of discussion on that.

    And no I don't need to remember that lame BS polling talking point for this morning. Saint For Life already tried to run that by me in another thread. I informed him that Harry Enteen knows better than to compare apples and oranges.

    Here that is, my answer there, is my answer here: https://madaboutpolitics.com/threads/general-election-2024-biden-vs-trump.307243/page-36#post-488448
     
    That article covers just about every possible angle. Big decisions typically involve a lot of considerations. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that Biden waited too long to make a decision - that much is a fact.

    “I also believe he had concluded that Hillary Clinton was almost certain to be the nominee, which was good by him,” Biden wrote. A campaign spokesperson added that in the meeting, Obama also said, “If I could appoint anyone to be president over the next eight years, Joe, it would be you.”

    Well the politco article goes into it, and you have comments like this:

    “It certainly felt like Obama’s world was behind us,” said one former Clinton campaign aide. “It wasn’t just Plouffe, Palmieri and Benenson. From the beginning, a lot of key Obama aides came over and helped stand up our campaign.” It was so blatant that some Clinton aides wondered whether Obama had just wrongly assumed that Biden wasn’t interested in running because of his age.

    Obama pressed the issue in another private meeting. “The president was not encouraging,” Biden recalled.

    A more direct kind of brushback occurred that fall. Plouffe—the Obama strategist who had been quietly advising Clinton since 2013—met with Biden and told him not to end his career in embarrassment with a third place finish in Iowa, according to multiple accounts of the meeting.
     
    Well the politco article goes into it, and you have comments like this:

    I think it was widely known in political circles for years that Hillary was planning to run in 2016, after coming up short in 2008. Obama’s campaign staff would have been looking for somewhere to land. I understand there would have been conversations and he was weighing it, I just don’t remember Biden signaling early that he would run, or reporting that he was planning to. Then his son died. I think if I was going to frame something as a well known rumor, it was that Hillary was running and was the anticipated favorite early on. Sanders ended up providing some actual competition. Biden wouldn’t have had a lane. If Biden wanted to run in 2016, he needed to make an early decision and assemble a team, not take a long time to think about it.
     
    I think it was widely known in political circles for years that Hillary was planning to run in 2016, after coming up short in 2008. Obama’s campaign staff would have been looking for somewhere to land. I understand there would have been conversations and he was weighing it, I just don’t remember Biden signaling early that he would run, or reporting that he was planning to. Then his son died. I think if I was going to frame something as a well known rumor, it was that Hillary was running and was the anticipated favorite early on. Sanders ended up providing some actual competition. Biden wouldn’t have had a lane. If Biden wanted to run in 2016, he needed to make an early decision and assemble a team, not taking a long time to think about it.
    Hillary should never have run to begin with. I wasn't gonna vote for her, and didn't vote for Trump. That said, had Biden run in 2016, I would have voted for him.

    I've said numerous times in the past that Biden should have run. He wins in 2016 and I don't think we ever hear Trump's name again.
     
    I think it was widely known in political circles for years that Hillary was planning to run in 2016, after coming up short in 2008. Obama’s campaign staff would have been looking for somewhere to land. I understand there would have been conversations and he was weighing it, I just don’t remember Biden signaling early that he would run, or reporting that he was planning to. Then his son died. I think if I was going to frame something as a well known rumor, it was that Hillary was running and was the anticipated favorite early on. Sanders ended up providing some actual competition. Biden wouldn’t have had a lane. If Biden wanted to run in 2016, he needed to make an early decision and assemble a team, not take a long time to think about it.

    Well, I took it as HRC campaign was a well oiled machine. Biden was weighing in on running in 2015, and Obama staffers had been joining her campaign since 2013. I have no idea how Biden does in the primaries against HRC. She was much weaker vs Sanders then people thought. I think HRC was comped to she isn't a "performance politician".

    The important part is that he if really wanted to run he should have. That Politico article paints a picture of Obama, and his staffers talking him out of it.
     
    Hillary should never have run to begin with. I wasn't gonna vote for her, and didn't vote for Trump. That said, had Biden run in 2016, I would have voted for him.

    I've said numerous times in the past that Biden should have run. He wins in 2016 and I don't think we ever hear Trump's name again.
    I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Hillary in the general. The whole Hillary thing has been beaten to death, reincarnated and beaten to death again. I knew that she was far and away better prepared and had experience that was an order of magnitude better than the Orange One. That being said, outside of those considerations, my issue was that Hillary and Bill were basically right-centrists. The so-called “Third Way” has done much to damage the Democratic Party branding so to speak.
     
    Well, I took it as HRC campaign was a well oiled machine. Biden was weighing in on running in 2015, and Obama staffers had been joining her campaign since 2013. I have no idea how Biden does in the primaries against HRC. She was much weaker vs Sanders then people thought. I think HRC was comped to she isn't a "performance politician".

    The important part is that he if really wanted to run he should have. That Politico article paints a picture of Obama, and his staffers talking him out of it.
    I think had Beau not died, Joe would have run and likely beat Hillary.
     
    Well, I took it as HRC campaign was a well oiled machine. Biden was weighing in on running in 2015, and Obama staffers had been joining her campaign since 2013. I have no idea how Biden does in the primaries against HRC. She was much weaker vs Sanders then people thought. I think HRC was comped to she isn't a "performance politician".

    The important part is that he if really wanted to run he should have. That Politico article paints a picture of Obama, and his staffers talking him out of it.

    There may have been discouragement, but the article also portrays some of those staffers going over to Clinton very early on. Hard to say when those conversations started between Obama and Biden, but Hillary had the jump on everybody, which I think was always her plan. When she stepped down as Secretary of State in early 2013, I believe she was getting her campaign together, which fits the Politico reporting. Biden was a few months into a second term as VP.
     
    When she stepped down as Secretary of State in early 2013, I believe she was getting her campaign together, which fits the Politico reporting. Biden was a few months into a second term as VP.
    Agreed. She wanted to get the jump on Joe more than anything and anyone else considering. The fact that Bernie gave her the fits in the primary should have been a red flag.
     

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