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First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    Agreed. She wanted to get the jump on Joe more than anything and anyone else considering. The fact that Bernie gave her the fits in the primary should have been a red flag.

    If we are taking a trip down memory lane, the Republican propaganda was amazing. Does anyone remember when they propped up the Clintons as the good Democrats vs Obama. A few years later, and she has been thoroughly demonized. I fully bought into the emails back then. Poor, Colin Powell got caught in the crossfire of that scandal.

    P.S. I don't know if it's me getting older, or the internet has made me hyperaware. It is much easier to spot a influence campaign now.
     
    I saw a specialist because I was concerned about a possible neurological issue. It turned out there was no problem.

    Fercryinoutloud, do you understand nothing?
    The NYT has an extremely stupid article out about this non-issue. This exact same physician was at the WH 10 times on one year during the Obama Admin, then fewer visits after that, but at least some visits every year. He’s been there about once a month this year so far.

    Also, this physician could possibly be seeing any of the thousand people who work at the WH and who are in the military, he practices at Walter Reed. Why do they assume he was there to see Biden?

    Oh, and we don’t know if he was there during Trump, because Trump made the WH stop reporting these visits, which is voluntary.

    Why make this into a controversy? Just why? If Biden had Parkinson’s it would become obvious.
     
    LOL

    You're engaging in an influence campaign now. Did you spot that one?

    I made this statement in this very thread:

    "Conservatives have been running a multi-year campaign to question Biden's senility, and age. Biden's debate performance was supposed to dispel these right wing talking points, and instead confirmed them. This has turned into a fever pitch call for Biden to be replaced."

    I'll even add another nugget to this. Trump, and the boys started trying to prop up Biden's debate expectations. Does everyone remember them talking about how Biden was going to be "enhanced" for the debate? That was because the smearing campaign had worked so well they were worried that the bar for Biden was to low, and would be easily cleared.

    I can know all those things, and still think Biden wet the bed during the debate. I have eyes. I saw his performance, and I see his poll numbers.
     
    For those who are sure that Biden should step aside, please read this fairly short thread and explain how it would really work. It’s about 8 tweets or so.



    I find it a bit ironic that people who once thought that Hillary was anointed by the DNC, now want to throw out the primary votes and go with some sort of nebulous process to choose the candidate. A process that isn’t written down anywhere and hasn’t been certified by the party. How do you think a GOP appointed judge might view that?

    If we had a crisis where Biden was unable to do the job, then let’s deal with that with existing parameters. Like Sam said- if he’s unable to run, he’s probably unable to do the job currently. IMO we don’t have that level of crisis. I’m also trusting that Lichtman knows what he is talking about when he says debate performance has zero influence on election results.
     
    For those who are sure that Biden should step aside, please read this fairly short thread and explain how it would really work. It’s about 8 tweets or so.



    I find it a bit ironic that people who once thought that Hillary was anointed by the DNC, now want to throw out the primary votes and go with some sort of nebulous process to choose the candidate. A process that isn’t written down anywhere and hasn’t been certified by the party. How do you think a GOP appointed judge might view that?

    If we had a crisis where Biden was unable to do the job, then let’s deal with that with existing parameters. Like Sam said- if he’s unable to run, he’s probably unable to do the job currently. IMO we don’t have that level of crisis. I’m also trusting that Lichtman knows what he is talking about when he says debate performance has zero influence on election results.


    How do these people make sense of major party players like Adam Schiff asking Biden to consider stepping down? Do they just assume Schiff doesn't understand this process better then they do?

    My spidey senses tingle at propaganda. This argument should be coming from within the party if it's true.
     
    How do these people make sense of major party players like Adam Schiff asking Biden to consider stepping down? Do they just assume Schiff doesn't understand this process better then they do?
    I think what you see is political posturing. Schiff was being mealy-mouthed, and a lot of people asked him to “consider” it. Hell, I was in favor of him considering it, immediately after the debate. It seems that he has and has said he is staying in at this point. He’s been out in public every day since. He seems the same as he was before the debate, at least to me.

    If he says he’s staying in, that’s it. There’s no way to remove him against his will unless his cabinet goes that route and removes him from the presidency. I don’t think we are at that level of concern.

    At the risk of being considered Trumpish, the press coverage has been a bit ridiculous. The NYT actually ran with a story on the front page of their site, I just read it, where they uncovered that a doctor who has visited the WH regularly since at least Obama’s first term, has visited regularly during Biden’s term. His specialty is Parkinson’s. So they are now demanding to know if he is treating Biden for Parkinson’s. Even though Biden’s medical info has always reported that he has no symptoms of that disease. Even though this doctor could be seeing any number of WH employees, and it would violate HIPAA to tell them anything except what the WH has told them - Biden has no symptoms, isn’t being treated for, and doesn’t take meds for Parkinson’s. Yet, the press corps is fanning those particular flames right now.

    I get the idea of an antagonistic press, except for the fact that they never seem to go after Trump that hard. Hell, it took them years to finally quit with the euphemisms for “lying” and say “lying” when he was clearly lying. I also think over 190 stories about Biden’s fitness for office compared to less than 10 about Trump’s clear multitude of issues that make him unfit is completely crazy.

    I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy. But they need to try to achieve a better balance.
     
    This is where we are. Unless Biden changes his mind, he’s the nominee. Publicly calling for him to step down just aids Trump at this point, IMO. Calling people who disagree with your opinion names, and I’ve seen that from both sides at this point is worse than useless. I got this from a political staffer who posts on Twitter.

    “I think everyone needs to take a step back, breathe, and think about the reality we’re in.

    We’re all on the same side here. We all have the same goal. Yes, we may have different ideas for how to get there, but we all want the same thing.

    Trumpism has to be defeated; Project 2025 can’t be allowed anywhere near the corridors of power.

    We have to stop fighting amongst ourselves and keep our eyes on the prize.

    If Biden stays in the race — as it appears he will — he can, and will beat Donald Trump again with our help.

    If Biden decides to leave the race, Kamala Harris can, and will beat Donald Trump with our help.

    The situation is politically complicated, but it’s also fundamentally very easy. Our job doesn’t change. Our goals don’t change.

    We’re going to follow the UK. We’re going to follow France.

    We’re going to defeat authoritarianism.”
     
    The NYT has an extremely stupid article out about this non-issue. This exact same physician was at the WH 10 times on one year during the Obama Admin, then fewer visits after that, but at least some visits every year. He’s been there about once a month this year so far.

    Also, this physician could possibly be seeing any of the thousand people who work at the WH and who are in the military, he practices at Walter Reed. Why do they assume he was there to see Biden?

    Oh, and we don’t know if he was there during Trump, because Trump made the WH stop reporting these visits, which is voluntary.

    Why make this into a controversy? Just why? If Biden had Parkinson’s it would become obvious.

    NBC evening news just reported on this btw.
     
    I think what you see is political posturing. Schiff was being mealy-mouthed, and a lot of people asked him to “consider” it. Hell, I was in favor of him considering it, immediately after the debate. It seems that he has and has said he is staying in at this point. He’s been out in public every day since. He seems the same as he was before the debate, at least to me.

    If he says he’s staying in, that’s it. There’s no way to remove him against his will unless his cabinet goes that route and removes him from the presidency. I don’t think we are at that level of concern.

    At the risk of being considered Trumpish, the press coverage has been a bit ridiculous. The NYT actually ran with a story on the front page of their site, I just read it, where they uncovered that a doctor who has visited the WH regularly since at least Obama’s first term, has visited regularly during Biden’s term. His specialty is Parkinson’s. So they are now demanding to know if he is treating Biden for Parkinson’s. Even though Biden’s medical info has always reported that he has no symptoms of that disease. Even though this doctor could be seeing any number of WH employees, and it would violate HIPAA to tell them anything except what the WH has told them - Biden has no symptoms, isn’t being treated for, and doesn’t take meds for Parkinson’s. Yet, the press corps is fanning those particular flames right now.

    I get the idea of an antagonistic press, except for the fact that they never seem to go after Trump that hard. Hell, it took them years to finally quit with the euphemisms for “lying” and say “lying” when he was clearly lying. I also think over 190 stories about Biden’s fitness for office compared to less than 10 about Trump’s clear multitude of issues that make him unfit is completely crazy.

    I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy. But they need to try to achieve a better balance.

    Schiff has zero motive for political posturing. He is running for a senate seat in California. Schiff is up 20 points in that race.

    Biden's campaign would very much like for all of us to believe it's to late for him to be replaced.
     
    Schiff has zero motive for political posturing. He is running for a senate seat in California. Schiff is up 20 points in that race.

    Biden's campaign would very much like for all of us to believe it's to late for him to be replaced.

    Nobody has come up with a very compelling scenario that it isn’t too late.

    My concern is that we’ll take this to a contested convention, fight it out to pick a winner in front of America, missing completely on the biggest event to contrast Trump and MAGA and to showcase a nominee and their accomplishments and platform, emerge splintered, and then scramble to unify and regain ground over four months.

    Starting to think MT15 was right; if they have to go in a different direction, it’s probably best for Biden to step down, let Harris assume the presidency, and hope all the competing interests within the Democratic ranks don’t object to her and **** this up.
     
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    Nobody has come up with a very compelling scenario that it isn’t too late.

    My concern is that we’ll take this to a contested convention, fight it out to pick a winner in front of America, missing completely on the biggest event to contrast Trump and MAGA and to showcase a nominee and their accomplishments and platform, emerge splintered, and then scramble to unify and regain ground over four months.

    Starting to think Mt15 was right, if they have to go in a different direction, it’s probably best for Biden to step down, let Harris assume the presidency, and hope all the competing interests within the Democratic ranks don’t object to her and **** this up.
    Yes, that’s the only scenario that I think makes sense. If he’s too feeble-minded to run for office, (which I don’t really believe at this point) he needs to step down now and let Harris take over. She would get the incumbent advantage and the convention can be what it should be: a celebration of the candidate and contrast with what Trump would do to America.
     

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