First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
=================

NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[MT15]

New polling on Biden, and potential candidates:

Home of the Marist Poll | Polls, Analysis, Learning, and More

The Marist Institute for Public Opinion (MIPO) is a survey research center. MIPO is home to the Marist Poll and conducts polls on politics, the economy, sports, technology and more at the local, state, and national level.

maristpoll.marist.edu

Biden 50% Trump 48%.
Newsom 50% Trump 48%.
Whitmer 49% Trump 49%.
Harris 50% Trump 49%.

Do you think people are responding to Biden getting pummeled by the press and some members of his own party? Or this whole thing has just made people start tuning in to the election for the first time?

I did see this about polling. The cross tabs tell a pretty unbelievable tale according to some folks I am reading. I think polls are broken.

 

[LA - L.A.]

So do you think their opinions don’t have merit because of their race and gender?

Speaking only for myself, it's not an issue of whether or not their opinions have merit. It's an issue of their opinions not having any more merit or importance than anyone else's just because they're well known celebrities.

 

[LA - L.A.]

New polling on Biden, and potential candidates:

Home of the Marist Poll | Polls, Analysis, Learning, and More

The Marist Institute for Public Opinion (MIPO) is a survey research center. MIPO is home to the Marist Poll and conducts polls on politics, the economy, sports, technology and more at the local, state, and national level.

maristpoll.marist.edu

Biden 50% Trump 48%.
Newsom 50% Trump 48%.
Whitmer 49% Trump 49%.
Harris 50% Trump 49%.

What I take from that is, just like in 2020, the Democrats need to stay on the offensive of making this election about Trump. I don't think Trump will be able to hold up to the pressure. I definitely don't think Trump could hold up to the pressure that Biden is under at the moment. I think Trump would have completely lost his shirt if he had been under the pressure Biden has been for the past two weeks. It's just what I think.

 

[DaveXA]

Do you think people are responding to Biden getting pummeled by the press and some members of his own party? Or this whole thing has just made people start tuning in to the election for the first time?

I did see this about polling. The cross tabs tell a pretty unbelievable tale according to some folks I am reading. I think polls are broken.

I wouldn't say polls are broken. I would say that they are limited in their usefulness. They're snapshots in time and poll methodologies varies a ton based on questions asked, the demographics of the people you're asking, numbers, etc, etc.

People are fickle, and some some groups of people are underrepresented or vice versa because they don't trust polling or whatever.

They can maybe indicate some short term trends and maybe you might tweak a strategy because of them, but I wouldn't base choosing or abandoning a candidate strictly on polling, but you definitely can use them to address some of the trends in the polls.

 

[SamAndreas]

So do you think their opinions don’t have merit because of their race and gender?

Laplaz that's a loaded question. I will leave laying there and not touch it.

A reasonable observation would be that others are having their primary votes endangered by these opinions of WASPs being imposed upon them. Rolled right over the top.

This is not a new thing, WASPs tend to sting emigrants from other places, or from here, if they happen to be native Americans.

The deal is Biden is being strong arm pressured to step down by these WASPs.

They are not actually debating the others, the others views are being strong armed, bypassed aside because the WASPs are swarming.

They have not reached an accommodation with these others at all. They're just doing it, that's how they are. That's how they've always been.

I've been stung by these WASPs man.

 

[SamAndreas]

Do you think people are responding to Biden getting pummeled by the press and some members of his own party? Or this whole thing has just made people start tuning in to the election for the first time?

I did see this about polling. The cross tabs tell a pretty unbelievable tale according to some folks I am reading. I think polls are broken.

I like that. it goes hand in hand with my theory that Biden is doing this of a purpose, and it will work.

Yes, this will work like nothing else will. Biden needs an irrational argument to counter the Criminals madness.

No one in American gets away with attacking an elder like Biden is being attacked without it blowing back on them. Folks will rally around Biden and protect him from those swarming media elites.

We'll beat MAGA. But an Irrational argument is necessary to do that.

 

[Lapaz]

I didn’t get to see the Michigan rally, glad to hear Biden seemed fine. I did just see this, the person who replied to her has a point - the press having failed to push Joe out - will probably do a turn and cover his “comeback” some. Also, they hopefully do a turn toward covering Trump now. His rambling mess when he talks is worth some scrutiny.



I don’t know if Rubin is right, but it would be nice to focus on Trump for a while.

Another point made by someone else kind of echoed what SamA said in here. I think the poster was Ron Filipowski, and he said something like - I wondered how Biden was going to get the press to cover his campaign events. Now we know.

That was a great speech, but keep in mind that it was with a teleprompter. Still, these types of performances would help turn things around. There is no doubt that he is doing better since the debate debacle. It seems to have motivated him, which has helped. My concern is that he won’t be able to keep this up in interviews and debates. It still seems like a bad bet.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That was a great speech, but keep in mind that it was with a teleprompter.

I watched every minute of the speech, occasionally rewinding to re-watch parts of it. Biden went off teleprompter and off script several times without any problem. In fact, some of his best moments were when he was off script. He even handled the interruption from the protestor well.

 

[Lapaz]

Laplaz that's a loaded question. I will leave laying there and not touch it.

A reasonable observation would be that others are having their primary votes endangered by these opinions of WASPs being imposed upon them. Rolled right over the top.

This is not a new thing, WASPs tend to sting emigrants from other places, or from here, if they happen to be native Americans.

The deal is Biden is being strong arm pressured to step down by these WASPs.

They are not actually debating the others, the others views are being strong armed, bypassed aside because the WASPs are swarming.

They have not reached an accommodation with these others at all. They're just doing it, that's how they are. That's how they've always been.

I've been stung by these WASPs man.

You answered my question indirectly with your castigation of WASPs. Many of those pictured are not Protestants, and I wouldn’t care if they were. What matters is the substance of what they say, not who’s saying it. In particular people that have been allies for years. These are people that most of us usually agree with, but I even agree with people I usually disagree with occasionally, so unless they have no credibility, I listen. It’s unseemly to minimize these messengers, rather than their message.

 

[SamAndreas]

You answered my question indirectly with your castigation of WASPs. Many of those pictured are not Protestants, and I wouldn’t care if they were. What matters is the substance of what they say, not who’s saying it. In particular people that have been allies for years. These are people that most of us usually agree with, but I even agree with people I usually disagree with occasionally, so unless they have no credibility, I listen. It’s unseemly to minimize these messengers, rather than their message.

Those from that first photo aray, the one from Hollywood, about a third of them were Jews, my own folks.

That dump Biden list of empowered congress critters don't have anyone I recognized from my own folks there. I described that list in detail.

However the supports Biden list seems to have many if not most of the Jews in Congress on it. And the Blacks, Latinos, more Women, even a nice lot of wasps too. And Catholics.

It isn't just Jews who get stung by swarming WASPs. Wasps are not a terrible problem until they swarm. They swarm sometimes, like about every 30 to 50 years.

It grows old. Sometime its not too bad, sometimes it's worse.

The worst was the first time, I was in first grade and the sons of John Birch Society bigots besieged me on the playground all year long. I was miserable that year.

Not only was I a Jew, my dad was a COOP Farmers Union organizer. I learned to fist fight, that helped.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Those from that first photo aray, the one from Hollywood, about a third of them were Jews, my own folks.

That dump Biden list of empowered congress critters don't have anyone I recognized from my own folks there. I described that list in detail.

However the supports Biden list seems to have many if not most of the Jews in Congress on it. And the Blacks, Latinos, more Women, even a nice lot of wasps too. And Catholics.

It isn't just Jews who get stung by swarming WASPs. Wasps are not a terrible problem until they swarm. They swarm sometimes, like about every 30 to 50 years.

It grows old. Sometime its not too bad, sometimes it's worse.

The worst was the first time, I was in first grade and the sons of John Birch Society bigots besieged me on the playground all year long. I was miserable that year.

Not only was I a Jew, my dad was a COOP Farmers Union organizer. I learned to fist fight, that helped.

Let me guess you were either a commie, Marxist, or socialist Jew.

 

[J-DONK]

Do you think people are responding to Biden getting pummeled by the press and some members of his own party? Or this whole thing has just made people start tuning in to the election for the first time?

I did see this about polling. The cross tabs tell a pretty unbelievable tale according to some folks I am reading. I think polls are broken.

Marist is one of the better ranking polls. This election might also be somewhat of a realignment with us being post dobs. The Trump campaign is going after black, and latino men between the ages of 18-34. They know they are going to be losing a certain percentage of women.

The polls are not broken.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Marist is one of the better ranking polls. This election might also be somewhat of a realignment with us being post dobs. The Trump campaign is going after black, and latino men between the ages of 18-34. They know they are going to be losing a certain percentage of women.

The polls are not broken.

People have being saying that for 2 years, but the polls continued to be unreliable.

These poll may be running more accurately than in the previous 2 years, but we won't know if that's the case until after the election.

Just because a campaign goes after a group of voters, it doesn't mean they will successfully get a significant increase in the percentage of that group of voters.

 

[SamAndreas]

Let me guess you were either a commie, Marxist, or socialist Jew.

Farmers Union, raised as a Socialist, went off to Socialist camp once a year when I was a kid.

I was in Socialist camp during the day time Watergate Hearings on black and white TV. That's how my parents, aunts and uncles got to watch it. All the kids were off for a four or five day summer camp, hurray.

The camp was run by Farmers Union, the largest remaining old Socialist organization in the US. We didn't call ourselves Socialists, we had better sense than that. We were a national farm cooperative, and a union you know, a seat on the commodity market. An oil refinery, and a lube oil refinery. A corporation called Farmland Industries which manufactures tractors and such.

A catalog to buy home appliances and such from, kind of like Sears. Had paint and hardware, tires, batteries, everything.

Socialist farmer kind of useful things. An insurance company. My dad was the local insurance agent for that as well.

We had our own economy.

The John Birchers called us commies, we weren't that at all. We were just a local farm cooperative. You've seen the stores, COOP, and Cenex farm stores. In our area it was COOP.

It still exists sort of, but I grew up during the heyday. It's much in declined now. Hardly recognizable. I think it still has over a hundred thousand people, and that's kind of strong.

The socialist part has fallen mostly apart. Farmland industries as it was is gone. No more COOP tractors. They still have a seat on the commodity market, and the oil and lube oil refineries, the insurance company still exists. There are still local grain warehouse operations, although the ones my dad organized are now gone.

Nixon was hard on us. We hated him. Nixon resigned, I saw it happen on TV, so I jumped on my bicycle and rode about 15 miles to where my uncle was, because I knew he was the one person in the whole world who worried about Nixon the most.

He had already heard, but he pretended that he hadn't so he could pretend that I brought him the news. He was that kind.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Farmers Union, raised as a Socialist, went off to Socialist camp once a year when I was a kid.

I was in Socialist camp during the day time Watergate Hearings on black and white TV. That's how my parents, aunts and uncles got to watch it. All the kids were off for a four or five day summer camp, hurray.

The camp was run by Farmers Union, the largest remaining old Socialist organization in the US. We didn't call ourselves Socialists, we had better sense than that. We were a national farm cooperative, and a union you know, a seat on the commodity market. An oil refinery, and a lube oil refinery. A corporation called Farmland Industries which manufactures tractors and such.

A catalog to buy home appliances and such from, kind of like Sears. Had paint and hardware, tires, batteries, everything.

Socialist farmer kind of useful things. An insurance company. My dad was the local insurance agent for that as well.

We had our own economy.

The John Birchers called us commies, we weren't that at all. We were just a local farm cooperative. You've seen the stores, COOP, and Cenex farm stores. In our area it was COOP.

It still exists sort of, but I grew up during the heyday. It's much in declined now. Hardly recognizable. I think it still has over a hundred thousand people, and that's kind of strong.

The socialist part has fallen mostly apart. Farmland industries as it was is gone. No more COOP tractors. They still have a seat on the commodity market, and the oil and lube oil refineries, the insurance company still exists. There are still local grain warehouse operations, although the ones my dad organized are now gone.

Nixon was hard on us. We hated him. Nixon resigned, I saw it happen on TV, so I jumped on my bicycle and rode about 15 miles to where my uncle was, because I knew he was the one person in the whole world who worried about Nixon the most.

He had already heard, but he pretended that he hadn't so he could pretend that I brought him the news. He was that kind.

I didn't make it clear that I was guessing what you were called by the 1st grade bullies, because you were Jewish and your father was in a union.

I really crapped the bed in my first post.

I recognize COOP. In a lot of ways we've come full circle from Nixon to Trump. A lot of the people behind Nixon are behind Trump. I have fuzzy memories of Nixon's resignation. I was at my dad's cousin's house, because they were rebluing their rifles together.

 

[Dragon]

Looking more and more like an attempted coup by a few democrats backed by nolabel

 

[SamAndreas]

I didn't make it clear that I was guessing what you were called by the 1st grade bullies, because you were Jewish and your father was in a union.

I really crapped the bed in my first post.

I recognize COOP. In a lot of ways we've come full circle from Nixon to Trump. A lot of the people behind Nixon are behind Trump. I have fuzzy memories of Nixon's resignation. I was at my dad's cousin's house, because they were rebluing their rifles together.

Don't sweat anything LA. Your post was enjoyable for me to answer. Why I've only been able to tell this story one other time on this board. I don't remember where, or when.

There have been other boards as well. Other times. It's one of my old stories. I was 13 I think when the Watergate hearings on TV happened.

The year before that in the fall I drove a JD 4020 with a five bottom, plowing, plowed about a whole square mile myself. Did it with my cousin, together we plowed about two square miles. He was a year older, he would lead and I would follow.

Two tractors, two 5 bottom plows, in perfect formation, with two kids under 14 driving, driving for 14 days. We were real good at doing that.

There was nothing wrong with that. I would follow him about 45 feet behind, and over two weeks I bet that interval of space between our tractors didn't vary by more than about 5 feet.

We were like Air Force pilots flying in formation. That stuff was fun.

Farm kids got to get out of school in the fall to help their dads. That's not a bad thing either, that's a good thing. I earned a lot doing that instead of being in school.

I also enjoy typing.

 

[samiam5211]

Smerconish is a pretty objective guy.

This is why those of us who want Biden to drop feel the way we do.

3 months of Michigan Joe can be undone by one day of debate Joe. We aren’t talking about it changing any votes if people like us.

Elections are decided by the 5 to 10 percent of people who barely pay attention but end up voting. What they decide in the last few weeks is all that really matters.