First presidential debate (4 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    I seriously doubt George Clooney lied.

    It's obvious that a lot of the party doesn't think Joe can win.

    I still can not get my head around desperately clinging to power at 81.

    Biden is not clinging to power. He won the primary fair and square. Some hollywood celebs wants the Dems to disregard millions of voters voice and a few "no-label" supported Dems try to do the same
     
    I seriously doubt George Clooney lied.

    It's obvious that a lot of the party doesn't think Joe can win.

    I still can not get my head around desperately clinging to power at 81.

    Clooney is angry because Biden said that both Hamas and Israel has committed war crimes.
     
    Clooney is angry because Biden said that both Hamas and Israel has committed war crimes.
    I read that Clooney’s wife might be sanctioned for her legal filings, and George called the WH after the fundraiser, concerned about it and thinking he could get assurances or something. He was refused and got mad. This, of course, is Twitter rumor.
     
    Why do you apply an either / or logic when the situation is that both Biden and Harris campaign together which combines their effectiveness.

    Not doing anything is ideal.
    Why do you think a Biden/Harris campaign would be essentially the same as a Harris/(whoever) campaign? It would not be the same. My concern is that Biden, as the top of the ticket, will be a campaign liability. 85% of voters think Biden is too old, and judging by the debate and how he's appeared in the two or so weeks since, he isn't doing anything between now and November to change that.
     
    Biden is not clinging to power. He won the primary fair and square. Some hollywood celebs wants the Dems to disregard millions of voters voice and a few "no-label" supported Dems try to do the same
    Biden did win the primary fair and square, but let's be honest - no incumbent ever gets seriously challenged and no names floated as a possible replacement now even tried to challenge him in the primary. You think primary voters choosing Biden over Dean Phillips means that Biden somehow has a mandate based on Democratic voters? I'm a registered Democrat, and based on the reality we have now I'm totally open to a Plan B. But my opinion shouldn't count because Biden beat Dean Phillips in the primary? Roughly half or more of registered Democrats think Biden should step down at this moment, but we should disregard that stat to "respect the will of the voters"? This defense of Biden's continued candidacy is a fig leaf.

    And I don't know what Biden's reasons are for refusing to step down, and neither do you. What I would HOPE is that he puts country and party before his own pride and ego, and is looking at the data and making a decision based on that. Am I confident that he's doing that? No.
     
    No. I don't know if we will or won't. You are the one thinks they know the future. I'm not the one fooling myself into thinking absolutely know what the future is.
    Do you think Biden has done anything since the debate to erase the impression he's simply too old? Do you realistically expect Biden to do anything to erase that impression going forward?
     
    Do you think Biden has done anything since the debate to erase the impression he's simply too old? Do you realistically expect Biden to do anything to erase that impression going forward?
    I've never thought he's too old, so I'm not a good person to ask.

    I don't assume one way or another that the majority of the people who will actually vote truly thinks he's too old.

    I don't assume the polls are accurate about that. Most of the people I've heard from directly say that they will vote for Biden, even the ones who are concerned about him being too old. I only know a few people who are concerned Biden is too old.
     
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    Biden did win the primary fair and square, but let's be honest - no incumbent ever gets seriously challenged and no names floated as a possible replacement now even tried to challenge him in the primary. You think primary voters choosing Biden over Dean Phillips means that Biden somehow has a mandate based on Democratic voters? I'm a registered Democrat, and based on the reality we have now I'm totally open to a Plan B. But my opinion shouldn't count because Biden beat Dean Phillips in the primary? Roughly half or more of registered Democrats think Biden should step down at this moment, but we should disregard that stat to "respect the will of the voters"? This defense of Biden's continued candidacy is a fig leaf.

    And I don't know what Biden's reasons are for refusing to step down, and neither do you. What I would HOPE is that he puts country and party before his own pride and ego, and is looking at the data and making a decision based on that. Am I confident that he's doing that? No.

    You and the other democrats did have a chance to run another candidate however. Elections have consequences and if democracy shall prevail it involves respecting the results.

    If Biden is unable to fullfill his job then remove him and put Harris in instead. But to remove him after the primaries due only to polls showing that he may lose, is not the way to do this in a democracy.
     
    You and the other democrats did have a chance to run another candidate however. Elections have consequences and if democracy shall prevail it involves respecting the results.

    If Biden is unable to fullfill his job then remove him and put Harris in instead. But to remove him after the primaries due only to polls showing that he may lose, is not the way to do this in a democracy.

    The most hilarious thing about this argument is that you had party insiders go on tv, and say they rigged the 2020 primary against Sanders.

    You can't have it both ways.

    To put this succinctly: Obama giveth, and Obama taketh away.
     
    The most hilarious thing about this argument is that you had party insiders go on tv, and say they rigged the 2020 primary against Sanders.
    Is Dragon one of those party insiders? No, she's not.

    Was it pro-Sanders insiders who said that? Yes it was.

    Was it just sour grapes, because Sanders didn't win? Yes, it most likely was.

    Did Sanders run against Clinton? Yes he did.

    Were people allowed to rung against Biden? Yes, they were.

    Did people run against Biden? Yes, they did.

    Did any of them get a significant amount of votes? No, none of them did.

    Was there a typical turnout of registered Democrats who voted for Biden? Yes, there was.

    Did Biden win a legitimate primary and the legitimate support of voters? Yes, he did. You'd have to ignore all of the above to think he didn't.
     
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    You and the other democrats did have a chance to run another candidate however. Elections have consequences and if democracy shall prevail it involves respecting the results.

    If Biden is unable to fullfill his job then remove him and put Harris in instead. But to remove him after the primaries due only to polls showing that he may lose, is not the way to do this in a democracy.
    Not only was there a chance for other candidates to run against Biden. Other candidates did choose to run against Biden and the overwhelming majority of voters in every state chose Biden over all of those other candidates.

    The reason so few people chose to run against Biden is they knew they couldn't persuade the voters to vote for them instead of Biden. They sat out, because they didn't want to lose as badly as the people who ran against Biden lost.
     
    Why do you think a Biden/Harris campaign would be essentially the same as a Harris/(whoever) campaign? It would not be the same. My concern is that Biden, as the top of the ticket, will be a campaign liability. 85% of voters think Biden is too old, and judging by the debate and how he's appeared in the two or so weeks since, he isn't doing anything between now and November to change that.
    I think this flap became moot yesterday afternoon.

    We won't be discussing this anymore, because we'll be discussing that hole in the bottom of the sea.

     
    The most hilarious thing about this argument is that you had party insiders go on tv, and say they rigged the 2020 primary against Sanders.

    You can't have it both ways.

    To put this succinctly: Obama giveth, and Obama taketh away.
    You CAN have it both ways.

    :ROFLMAO:

    I'm laughing AT you right now, but if you start laughing as well, then I'll be laughing WITH you.

    That would be fun.
     
    Can we get out of the way what particular group of voters will be the scapegoat if Biden loses in November? Just so we’re all on the same page here.

    I have a not so subtle prediction, but I’m interested to hear the takes.
     
    Can we get out of the way what particular group of voters will be the scapegoat if Biden loses in November? Just so we’re all on the same page here.

    I have a not so subtle prediction, but I’m interested to hear the takes.
    Why? To store up for an “I told you so?”

    People who vote for Trump will be the scapegoats. Full stop.
     
    Why? To store up for an “I told you so?”

    People who vote for Trump will be the scapegoats. Full stop.

    Why?

    Because it’s important we notice patterns about certain behaviors or beliefs so we can go back and analyze them. If one cares truly about making the party better, it’s probably important that we understand and hopefully agree on what our actual problems are.

    That makes it easier to actually have the conversation over what we should do to improve it, thus getting us closer to improving it.
     
    The GOP is definitely going to run on the "if Biden wins, Harris is going to be President" narrative.

    They tried running on this in 2020.....I have a friend who unfortunately is a MAGA (though he claims to not like Trump now) who told me in 6 months they would replace Biden with Harris (that would be summer 2020).....I told him I'll bet you a lunch that doesn't happen....he just kind of looked at me.....total BS.....now? I don't really care, whomever is in the WH it can't be Trump.....
     

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