An Amicable Separation/Decentralization/Secession (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

https://nationalfile.com/why-dont-w...d-divide-up-into-like-two-or-three-countries/

I find myself never agreeing with this looney tune but I think she is might be on to something. At the very minimum for a conversation. I heard this yesterday evening and have been thinking about a lot last night and today. Curious on others thoughts.
Why do we all have to share a federal government. The 2 sides are not just politically apart, but are different in their core values. I think this needs to be discussed before conflict actually boils to the top.
If we are honest, it is already simmering. This should be a like a divorce only with vast population migration to different areas.
We remain allies with defensive pacts and trade pacts but share not common government.
I get the first reaction is horror but if you think about it, it might be the only way...

What would it look like? What regions/states would go where?

 

[MT15]

Are you familiar with the term “Balkanization”? If by decentralization you mean breaking up into smaller nations, that’s a really bad idea.

If you mean just let states do their own thing to a certain extent, then that might have some merit. To a limited extent.

 

[Farb]

Are you familiar with the term “Balkanization”? If by decentralization you mean breaking up into smaller nations, that’s a really bad idea.

If you mean just let states do their own thing to a certain extent, then that might have some merit. To a limited extent.

I say let the states do their own thing completely with a very limited federal goverment, as intended. This cabal of bureaucrats running the show that we have now is not a good thing and citizens are finally waking up.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

This cabal of bureaucrats running the show that we have now is not a good thing and citizens are finally waking up.

And you don't think this will happen at the state level if we were decentalized?

 

[Farb]

And you don't think this will happen at the state level if we were decentalized?

It very well could, but we could also restructure our political system to avoid the know pitfalls of corruption. For example, on state and whatever union you may have (I think the founding documents are a great place to start) at the federal level, have safe guards where the elected don't become millionaires due to insider trading, single bill/budgets vote, term limits, actual jail time for any crime and if in public office, that would be double the penalty than that of a normal citizen. Those are just starters.
We can't do any worse than with the total and complete corruption and perversion of our federal government that we have now. With their greed, corruption and lust for money and power, they have ruined this country. Can it be save, I honestly don't know. Nothing short of a complete sweep of those in power will stop a split, IMO.

 

[MT15]

Farb, to sort of reinforce your point about greed, more information has come out about Senator Burr. I don’t believe the Senate even censured him over this. It seems to me that he and his brother should be prosecuted, but I am not a lawyer and don’t know how likely that is.

Congress should pass the bill that would prevent MOC from trading stocks during the time they are in Congress. They should also reform campaign finance to get the dark money out of politics. It may be Sheldon Whitehouse’s bill, I know he is a strong champion of reform for the way money corrupts our politicians.

Burr’s Brother-in-Law Called Stock Broker, One Minute After Getting Off Phone With Senator

According to the SEC, Sen. Richard Burr of North Carolina, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, had material nonpublic information about coronavirus impact. He and his brother-in-law dumped stock before the market dropped in March 2020.

www.propublica.org

I don’t think splitting into more than one country will ever happen. There’s no state that is 100% toward one side or the other. And the logistics would become a nightmare. You would also suffer immensely from having to duplicate in several new areas the functions of government that are now performed at a federal level. It just moves the location for the corruption, is all. And multiplies the opportunities for grifters.

I’d rather work on the problem at the federal level than split the problem up into multiple locations.

 

[samiam5211]

Farb, to sort of reinforce your point about greed, more information has come out about Senator Burr. I don’t believe the Senate even censured him over this. It seems to me that he and his brother should be prosecuted, but I am not a lawyer and don’t know how likely that is.

Congress should pass the bill that would prevent MOC from trading stocks during the time they are in Congress. They should also reform campaign finance to get the dark money out of politics. It may be Sheldon Whitehouse’s bill, I know he is a strong champion of reform for the way money corrupts our politicians.

Burr’s Brother-in-Law Called Stock Broker, One Minute After Getting Off Phone With Senator

According to the SEC, Sen. Richard Burr of North Carolina, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, had material nonpublic information about coronavirus impact. He and his brother-in-law dumped stock before the market dropped in March 2020.

www.propublica.org

I think all elected federal and state officials should have to liquidate all of there investments and put it in a savings account until they are no longer in office.

 

[MT15]

I’m not sure it’s fair to ask them to liquidate into a savings account. They should have to put all of their equity into mutual funds though. And be prohibited from trading any individual stocks.

 

[Farb]

Farb, to sort of reinforce your point about greed, more information has come out about Senator Burr. I don’t believe the Senate even censured him over this. It seems to me that he and his brother should be prosecuted, but I am not a lawyer and don’t know how likely that is.

Congress should pass the bill that would prevent MOC from trading stocks during the time they are in Congress. They should also reform campaign finance to get the dark money out of politics. It may be Sheldon Whitehouse’s bill, I know he is a strong champion of reform for the way money corrupts our politicians.

Burr’s Brother-in-Law Called Stock Broker, One Minute After Getting Off Phone With Senator

According to the SEC, Sen. Richard Burr of North Carolina, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, had material nonpublic information about coronavirus impact. He and his brother-in-law dumped stock before the market dropped in March 2020.

www.propublica.org

I don’t think splitting into more than one country will ever happen. There’s no state that is 100% toward one side or the other. And the logistics would become a nightmare. You would also suffer immensely from having to duplicate in several new areas the functions of government that are now performed at a federal level. It just moves the location for the corruption, is all. And multiplies the opportunities for grifters.

I’d rather work on the problem at the federal level than split the problem up into multiple locations.

I was reading an article about a bi partisan group trying to make that happen and I hope they do, but I don't think they have a snowballs chance in hell to get it passed. To many are making too much money.
I hope Burr goes down for that too, but you know he won't. He is protected. They are all protected from any law they pass it seems. Good ole boy system at work.

I get what your saying but if you looked at it as I do, you would still only be focusing on changing one location's government. The location you belong. For example, no one in Maine would care what the State of Nevada is doing because it would have zero direct effect on them, just like Alabama does not really care what Mexico does with its federal government. Obviously there will be overlap and indirect effects like trade, migration ect, but that is going to happen regardless.

 

[samiam5211]

I get what your saying but if you looked at it as I do, you would still only be focusing on changing one location's government. The location you belong. For example, no one in Maine would care what the State of Nevada is doing because it would have zero direct effect on them, just like Alabama does not really care what Mexico does with its federal government. Obviously there will be overlap and indirect effects like trade, migration ect, but that is going to happen regardless.

Based on how much attention we're giving to local school board meetings, i think that people in Maine might care about what happens in Nebraska a little more than you suspect.

 

[Farb]

This is what MT and I were discussing. This is Pelosi but not meant to be a tribal hit, I was just reading about this last night. These folks are making a killing watching what stock information is being disclosed from Pelosi (her husband apparently is a stock market savant )

Make no mistake there Repubs doing this too. I think I remember a senator in Georgia selling hospitality stocks just before they shut the economy and travel down. Linsey Graham has a special place of hate in my heart along with McConnell.

 

[Farb]

Based on how much attention we're giving to local school board meetings, i think that people in Maine might care about what happens in Nebraska a little more than you suspect.

Not if we were not forced to 'live together'.

 

[samiam5211]

Not if we were not forced to 'live together'.

The media will still run stories designed to enrage people. for the click$.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

This is what MT and I were discussing. This is Pelosi but not meant to be a tribal hit, I was just reading about this last night. These folks are making a killing watching what stock information is being disclosed from Pelosi (her husband apparently is a stock market savant )

Make no mistake there Repubs doing this too. I think I remember a senator in Georgia selling hospitality stocks just before they shut the economy and travel down. Linsey Graham has a special place of hate in my heart along with McConnell.

Kelly Loeffler, I think. She also bought stocks in teleconferencing companies.

 

[Farb]

I’m not sure it’s fair to ask them to liquidate into a savings account. They should have to put all of their equity into mutual funds though. And be prohibited from trading any individual stocks.

and family members.
Although then it seems we will have no one who volunteers to run for public office except those that crave power and that might be worse than what we currently have.

Maybe up the pay to make it worth wild to run and win but severely limit their ability to turn their positions into money makers.

Much fiscally smarter people than me can figure that out, but I think most agree something has to be done and done quickly if this republic will hold together.

 

[Farb]

The media will still run stories designed to enrage people. for the click$.

Sure they would. But honestly, if you read something that would enrage you if it happened here but you notice it happened in Turkey....doesn't it lose a lot of the outrage?

 

[samiam5211]

Sure they would. But honestly, if you read something that would enrage you if it happened here but you notice it happened in Turkey....doesn't it lose a lot of the outrage?

I suppose it depends on what it is.

I don't care what happens at school board meetings anywhere other than where i live though, so maybe i'm not the best person to ask.

 

[MT15]

This is what MT and I were discussing. This is Pelosi but not meant to be a tribal hit, I was just reading about this last night. These folks are making a killing watching what stock information is being disclosed from Pelosi (her husband apparently is a stock market savant )

Make no mistake there Repubs doing this too. I think I remember a senator in Georgia selling hospitality stocks just before they shut the economy and travel down. Linsey Graham has a special place of hate in my heart along with McConnell.

I’m not sure how often MOC have to disclose trades, I thought it was only quarterly or some such. It doesn’t seem all that realistic that people on Tic Tok could know what they are trading in time to profit from it. That confuses me.

 

[JRad]

I was reading an article about a bi partisan group trying to make that happen and I hope they do, but I don't think they have a snowballs chance in hell to get it passed. To many are making too much money.
I hope Burr goes down for that too, but you know he won't. He is protected. They are all protected from any law they pass it seems. Good ole boy system at work.

I get what your saying but if you looked at it as I do, you would still only be focusing on changing one location's government. The location you belong. For example, no one in Maine would care what the State of Nevada is doing because it would have zero direct effect on them, just like Alabama does not really care what Mexico does with its federal government. Obviously there will be overlap and indirect effects like trade, migration ect, but that is going to happen regardless.

There is a lot that should happen, but the people who can make it happen are the ones who would end up jobless as a result.

and family members.
Although then it seems we will have no one who volunteers to run for public office except those that crave power and that might be worse than what we currently have.

Maybe up the pay to make it worth wild to run and win but severely limit their ability to turn their positions into money makers.

Much fiscally smarter people than me can figure that out, but I think most agree something has to be done and done quickly if this republic will hold together.

I dunno, I think someone who takes the job (so to speak) without financial gain is more invested in actually serving the public interest.