An Amicable Separation/Decentralization/Secession (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

https://nationalfile.com/why-dont-w...d-divide-up-into-like-two-or-three-countries/

I find myself never agreeing with this looney tune but I think she is might be on to something. At the very minimum for a conversation. I heard this yesterday evening and have been thinking about a lot last night and today. Curious on others thoughts.
Why do we all have to share a federal government. The 2 sides are not just politically apart, but are different in their core values. I think this needs to be discussed before conflict actually boils to the top.
If we are honest, it is already simmering. This should be a like a divorce only with vast population migration to different areas.
We remain allies with defensive pacts and trade pacts but share not common government.
I get the first reaction is horror but if you think about it, it might be the only way...

What would it look like? What regions/states would go where?

 

[Farb]

This is utter demonization of “others”. It’s un-American, full stop. It’s not coming from both sides.

I am unvaxed and don't plan to be. Can I catch a flight? Should I have access to all the available medical services in regards to covid? Can I grab a meal in a restaurant in NYC?

I also love to wear red. Especially a red a ball cap. I wonder what how I am thought of.

To act like only side is playing this game it truly have your head in the sand and to actually live a echo chamber.

 

[Goatman saint]

I think it will happen. I think it needs to happen. If we embrace decentralization then we are not just talking about states going their own way, we are talking about new nations states forming. When those form they will be ruled by how they were created in a sense. So yes, you will see new states/countries formed with a backbone of Christianity and those will be set into law. You will see 'inclusive' and states based on equity and those ideas will be written into law.
There won't or doesn't have to be a lottery of citizens between states. If you don't want to live a country that is run under Christian law or Inclusivity then you will move to the new region/state that fits your values. Right now, we don't share basic core values any longer and we are in a loveless and abusive relationship. You are inviting real conflict if this continues, IMO.
As far as 'poor' states making it, I think it will be a drastic reshift of resources and services once the federal government is removed. Now, granted, this will only work if the new states adopt some type of guardrails to ensure that we will not be run into the ground by a bureaucratic dictatorship. Or, if they do, they are on their own. And we should never be tempted to form a quasi federal government like the EU.

Ooo betray American founding principals break up and turn to Christian taliban. Oooooo sign me up for that

 

[Farb]

Ooo betray American founding principals break up and turn to Christian taliban. Oooooo sign me up for that

Betray or embrace....it is embracing? That is the disconnect.

And nothing says serious discussion like using the newly equipped and weaponized 'taliban' when describing fellow citizens that you don't agree with their religious stance.

 

[coldseat]

Ooo betray American founding principals break up and turn to Christian taliban. Oooooo sign me up for that

I say this repeatedly, but it's amazing how far the right wing has fallen off the cliff of religious extremism. But, I think Farb has and exaggerated sense of what percentage of the population would want to live in a theocratic state if there is a true choice. Maybe 20% at best. That new country would fail so miserably.

I'm not actually opposed, because it would leave what's left of our country in a much more stable place to get that part of the population separated and out of our government, but it will never happen. It would also allow us to finally modernize the constitution and reform the Supreme Court, which would really make things so much better. So while it's a pipe dream, I kind wish it were possible. I'd get up and move out of Texas for that!

 

[Goatman saint]

The untied states was founded on religious freedom and separation of church and state. So yes, if you created a Christian based society, under Christian law, it would be something that would not embrace all. And the world had tried that. It was called the dark ages

 

[Farb]

Cool. I think it worth exploring, despite the hyperbole about a creating a theocracy, which if that was the way it came out, I apologize, not intended.
I would like to see a society where the central government stays out of peoples lives and wallets except for those necessary for a functioning government and built on western ideals and values.
You guys could have the all the empathy, diversity and inclusion you could stand. And we can have a society that is built on self accountability, family and freedom. It could work I think.

 

[CoolBrees]

Cool. I think it worth exploring, despite the hyperbole about a creating a theocracy, which if that was the way it came out, I apologize, not intended.
I would like to see a society where the central government stays out of peoples lives and wallets except for those necessary for a functioning government and built on western ideals and values.
You guys could have the all the empathy, diversity and inclusion you could stand. And we can have a society that is built on self accountability, family and freedom. It could work I think.

Except economically. Your state and those around you would not be able to survive without the federal government. You put in less than you take out. By a lot. You know who pays your bill? California. You have no industry, and those tech headquarters that moved to Texas would promptly leave because you are going to have to makeup the trillons of federal dollars somewhere.

Face it. If there was ever a secession, The South wouldn’t secede. It would get left behind by the West Coast. This then would cause a split of the rest of the nation, how I have no idea but I don’t think it would be hard to speculate on the lines.

It’s all talk anyways. Last time we had a secession it was deemed illegal, so precedent is set as far as I am concerned.

You said it was like and abusive relationship? Nah, more like a life sentence without the possibility of parole.

 

[Farb]

I think every state can exist without federal government help. This notion that we need the federal government is false and is pushed by the federal government.
If each state stayed the same (meaning, state governments decentralized as well, that would almost have to happen in order to get the current bunch out of power, and not form new larger states) then, sure some would be less wealthy than than other areas, but maybe for a short time. People would move, and with those people, their wealth, values and work ethic. Not to mention without the federal government, the states would keep more of their wealth instead of sending to a the feds to completely mismanage it.
The more I think on it, the more I like it. Who knew Sarah Silverman would be the new Ben Franklin!

 

[coldseat]

I would definitely be interested to see what would happen to Texas when all of the population centers in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin, that are Democrat and liberal, has mass migration out of the state and Business and Industry followed. The state would run into a rural dust bowl.

 

[JRad]

I would like to see a society where the central government stays out of peoples lives and wallets except for those necessary for a functioning government and built on western ideals and values.

Are there any countries that currently have something resembling what you're describing here? (That's not meant to be a backhanded "well then move")

 

[Goatman saint]

I think every state can exist without federal government help. This notion that we need the federal government is false and is pushed by the federal government.
If each state stayed the same (meaning, state governments decentralized as well, that would almost have to happen in order to get the current bunch out of power, and not form new larger states) then, sure some would be less wealthy than than other areas, but maybe for a short time. People would move, and with those people, their wealth, values and work ethic. Not to mention without the federal government, the states would keep more of their wealth instead of sending to a the feds to completely mismanage it.
The more I think on it, the more I like it. Who knew Sarah Silverman would be the new Ben Franklin!

But, people move to where there are resources, opportunities, culture and education. Take out federal money from the south, take out the money that states like California put into those areas and what is left to build your economy. I’m not kidding or being a butthead. I come from Montana. Beautiful state, but what is there to drive the economy? Tourism and wheat. Well, and maybe meth. But it’s not going to become anything more. As soon as federal Highway dollars dry up the roads will fall apart. As soon as federal funding to help get rural hospitals and medical dries up, people will leave. As soon as federal money for law enforcement is gone meth becomes the dominant economy. You can’t tell me a lot of the south is very similar.

What would happen in a few years without federal funding for the levees and flood control in Louisiana? How y’all going to rebuild on the state dime? That’s the huge federal money pot.

As a matter of fact this does sound pretty good. When can we in California leave? Give Northern California to the state of Jefferson, same is some money there, and and let Frisco through SoCal be itself

 

[MT15]

Well, this is certainly a recipe for disaster. I wonder how you would feel, Farb, if you ended up in a “blue” state? Would you just be fine with picking up and moving away from friends and family? Screw that. It’s a horrible idea, it would just ruin everything economically and socially.

 

[CoolBrees]

It’s just not thought out. Alabama would survive without federal dollars?!? How?

In 2019 Alabama gave $34 billion in taxes.
In 2019 Alabama received $74 billion.
In other words, for every dollar Alabama paid to US government, they received back $2.17 in federal dollars.

Contrast that with New York who sent in $265 billion and got back $241 billion. Or for every dollar NY spent it received $.91.

So what exactly is Alabama going to do to make $40billion? That’s more than they generate now by 6 billion. So again how to does one go about increasing Alabama’s GDP by over 200% with zero investment?

That is one impactful prayer group.

 

[Goatman saint]

11 states pay more in federal taxes than they get back — here's how every state fares

Are you paying more in federal taxes than what you receive back in federal benefits? We took a look.

www.businessinsider.com

13.7 billion in the hole for California. Dang…….

21.2 billion given in excess to Louisiana for about 4500 per resident. Jeez.

 

[xpuma20x]

11 states pay more in federal taxes than they get back — here's how every state fares

Are you paying more in federal taxes than what you receive back in federal benefits? We took a look.

www.businessinsider.com

13.7 billion in the hole for California. Dang…….

21.2 billion given in excess to Louisiana for about 4500 per resident. Jeez.

That seems to contradict this article:

Most & Least Federally Dependent States in 2023

wallethub.com

I suppose it all depends on how they look at their data.

 

[CoolBrees]

@xpuma20x -

Your second one is for Covid federal spending, not general spending

 

[xpuma20x]

@xpuma20x -

Your second one is for Covid federal spending, not general spending

I guess it would help if I did a better job reading the entire article and not just jump to reading the state info.

 

[MT15]

Hey, it’s late and we’re all sick of this shirt.