Will “mass deportation” actually happen (6 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[TampaJoe]

What you are describing is sort of extreme isn’t it? Doesn’t the Bill of Rights guarantee you protection from unreasonable search and seizure? Are you advocating for what ICE has been doing? Since forever, BTW, not just under Trump.

Police do not have the right to demand ID from someone unless they are suspected of committing a crime. That’s a right everyone in the US is supposed to enjoy. We don’t have police demanding to see the “papers” of people without cause. The edit below is mine. Also bolding in second paragraph is mine.

“Though immigration enforcement gets more attention under Trump, ICE, since its modern creation after 9/11, has mistakenly detained, and sometimes deported, thousands of U.S. citizens under presidents of both parties. What has changed under Trump is the government’s (this should read unwillingness) willingness to admit, and correct, its errors. In March, the administration rushed some 278 deportees to CECOT, the supermax hellhole of a prison in El Salvador, in violation of a court order. One of these deportations was, by the government’s own admission in court, a mistake: Kilmer Abrego Garcia should not have been deported. But when a judge demanded the administration return him, it shrugged: He was in El Salvador; it was too late now.

Trump has repeatedly floated the idea of sending citizens to El Salvador, and the government making this sort of “error” with a citizen in ICE custody would be one way to accomplish that before the courts intervene. It’s getting easier to see that day coming. In his pursuit of millions of deportations, Trump and his crew of true believers have argued it’s time to remove the safeguards and put the deportation machine into overdrive. “The right of ‘due process’ is to protect citizens from their government, not to protect foreign trespassers from removal,” White House adviser Stephen Miller posted online in May. “Due process guarantees the rights of a criminal defendant facing prosecution, not an illegal alien facing deportation.” (Last week, the government blamed “a confluence of administrative errors” for deporting another man in violation of a court order.) Miller’s reading of the Constitution wasn’t particularly impressive — the Fifth Amendment states that “no person” shall be deprived of due process, not “no citizen.” His logic, though, was even more suspect: What do the protections of citizenship mean without due process? If you have no chance to argue your case in court, how will you convince anyone you’re a citizen if you’re arrested by mistake?”

Could You Prove You’re a Citizen?

For Americans wrongfully detained by ICE, it can be nearly impossible to escape.

nymag.com

What I believe we should be doing is to first control our borders and to stop a problem from getting worse. Next I believe we should pass legislation that provides for border security, fixes immigration and provides a reasonable feasible solution for the millions of undocumented migrants currently within our borders.

When you allow this many people to move across the border inverted you are going to have all kinds of problems. That as you point out is nothing new. That is why it was reckless to allow it to happen in the first place. To expect this problem to be addressed or solved perfectly is unreasonable. To also expect citizens to do little or nothing while we take another 10 or 20 years to figure it out it unacceptable. So if all this concerns you, write or call your congressman critters and ask them to make another attempt at actually solving the problem thru legislation. Beats whining about the symptoms.

 

[Incumbent]

I intend to go this Saturday for the No Kings march locally. I hope there is a huge turnout.

My wife and I are planning to, also. It is not a decision without trepidation. Officials used tear gas a few days ago at the ICE protest in our downtown. State officials are unsympathetic and heavy-handed. City police engaged in the use of excessive force during BLM protests, costing the city nearly $30 million in injury settlements. We both think it's important to go but it is with a fear that we haven't felt in the past when attending protests and rallies.

 

[coldseat]

When he tried to de-escalate tensions between federal agents and protesters, he said, a group of officers took him to the ground, held him in a chokehold and pushed him into the pavement, causing a large contusion on his nose and bruises all over his body. His lawyer provided cellphone footage that partially captured the scuffle.

“We are not the violent ones. They escalated it. They are chasing down innocent people,” said Mojica, who lifted his shirt to show the bruises on his ribs. “There was a different way to handle the situation than to beat me.”

It's obvious that ICE and federal officials are under orders to intentionally escalate the violence on all Americans protesting so that Trump and Republicans have their pretext to increase the Republican authoritarianism and control over Democratic states and city. People need to fight back because it's becoming an all out civil war for our freedoms.

Trump has succeeded in turning our country into an authoritarian third world dictatorship. Thanks, Republicans!

 

[MT15]

You are right. I stand corrected.

But if you are being detained as a citizen or as a legal resident, having a valid government id is the first step. LEO have other resources available to them to help determine status if they know definitively who you are.

This is also from the article I linked. It tells the story of a man who was flagged erroneously as a deportable alien and held for over 1,000 days, even though he was a US citizen.

“There’s no master list of U.S. citizens, no single reliable dataset immigration agents can refer to when they want to determine who is a citizen and who isn’t. Citizenship, as it exists on paper, is a conglomeration of documents: of birth certificates, Social Security cards, and naturalization papers. And it’s not simple. Even if you were born in the U.S., clerical errors can get you on record as a noncitizen. It’s even more difficult to prove citizenship for immigrants like Watson, who was born in Jamaica. He immigrated, with a visa, to New York when he was 13 to live as a legal permanent resident with his father, also a legal permanent resident. A few years later, before Watson’s 18th birthday, his father became a naturalized citizen, which meant that, legally, Watson became a citizen as well.”

 

[MT15]

What I believe we should be doing is to first control our borders and to stop a problem from getting worse.

Our borders have never been “out of control”. It’s a shirtty process, and that is Congress’ fault, but there has always been a process. It’s never been “open” or “lawless”. This is the GOP propaganda we keep pointing out to you.

The border wasn’t open under Obama or under Biden. Trump saw roughly the same number of migrants in his first term (with the exception of Covid) as the other two. The excess that Biden saw during the first part of his term was mostly a buildup that was stymied under Covid. By the end of Biden’s term, he had fewer illegal crossings than Trump ever did, IIRC. Because he set about to fix it and worked on it during his entire term. They did a few things in Central America that helped. The bipartisan bill was the end of the process - until Trump blew it up.

Nobody is whining. Pointing out the facts and being dismayed about GOP hypocrisy and your willingness to believe their lies isn’t whining.

Tell me this: how is arresting and deporting farm workers, cooks and busboys helping our border situation right now? What is being accomplished by these draconian arrests and ignoring due process?

 

[Optimus Prime]

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — The owner of an Omaha food packaging company says his business has been unfairly hamstrung by federal immigration officials, who raided the plant and arrested more than half its workforce.

The raid took place despite the company meticulously following the government's own system for verifying the workers were in the country legally, owner Gary Rohwer said Wednesday.

Glenn Valley Foods now is operating at about 30% of capacity as the business scrambles to hire more workers, Rohwer said as he stood outside the plant.

Asked how upsetting the raid was, Rohwer replied, “I was very upset, ma’am, because we were told to e-verify, and we e-verified all these years, so I was shocked.”

“We did everything we could possibly do," he said.

E-Verify is an online U.S. Department of Homeland Security system launched in the late 1990s that allows employers to quickly check if potential employees can work legally in the U.S., often by using Social Security numbers.

Some of America’s largest employers use it, including Starbucks and Walmart, but the vast majority of employers do not. Critics say the system is fairly easy to cheat, particularly with false documents.

Rohwer noted that federal officials have said his company was a victim of those using stolen identities or fake IDs to get around the E-Verify system, which lead agents conducting the raid described as “broken” and “flawed” to Glenn Valley executives.

But that does nothing to repair the company’s bottom line, Rohwer said.

“I’d like to see the United States government ... come up with a program that they can communicate to the companies as to how to hire legitimate help. Period,” he said.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement confirmed that more than 70 people were arrested during the Glenn Valley Foods raid on Tuesday. It also said one of the workers, described as a Honduras national, assaulted federal agents as he was being detained.............

An Omaha food plant owner says he followed the rules for hiring immigrants. It was raided anyway.

The owner of an Omaha food packaging company says his business has been unfairly hamstrung by Tuesday's raid carried out by federal immigration officials.

apnews.com

 

[TampaJoe]

Our borders have never been “out of control”. It’s a shirtty process, and that is Congress’ fault, but there has always been a process. It’s never been “open” or “lawless”. This is the GOP propaganda we keep pointing out to you.

The border wasn’t open under Obama or under Biden. Trump saw roughly the same number of migrants in his first term (with the exception of Covid) as the other two. The excess that Biden saw during the first part of his term was mostly a buildup that was stymied under Covid. By the end of Biden’s term, he had fewer illegal crossings than Trump ever did, IIRC. Because he set about to fix it and worked on it during his entire term. They did a few things in Central America that helped. The bipartisan bill was the end of the process - until Trump blew it up.

Nobody is whining. Pointing out the facts and being dismayed about GOP hypocrisy and your willingness to believe their lies isn’t whining.

Tell me this: how is arresting and deporting farm workers, cooks and busboys helping our border situation right now? What is being accomplished by these draconian arrests and ignoring due process?

I work in controls all day every day. Have been for years. Just because there is a “process” doesn’t mean there is adequate control. To assume the existence of a process means there is control is faulty logic. But that’s is the rhetoric you have been fed. So you believe it.

We can go back and forth for days and nothing will change. The question is where to go from here. I told you where I believe we should focus our efforts.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Vincent Scardina supported Donald Trump’s tough stance on immigration at the ballot box. But that decision came back to bite the roofing boss when ICE detained a third of his workforce.

Let's get the world's tiniest violin out and the stupid stamp.

 

[SFIDC3]

This is happening everywhere in CA right now also. Who does MAGA think are going to do these jobs!?!? Trump and his followers seem to love $, well let them prepare for what’s coming….except we all know those costs increases will be passed right on and paid by all of our wallets.

I think in their twisted fever dream oligarchy kingdom, US citizens will do those jobs, at a wage that our billionaire overlords deem should be "livable".....

They want less folks educated at a level that would question their fascist policies and more that will just fall in line with them.....I believe that is the end goal....

 

[MT15]

I work in controls all day every day. Have been for years. Just because there is a “process” doesn’t mean there is adequate control. To assume the existence of a process means there is control is faulty logic. But that’s is the rhetoric you have been fed. So you believe it.

We can go back and forth for days and nothing will change. The question is where to go from here. I told you where I believe we should focus our efforts.

Just to be fair - you are now qualifying your statement. You have previously blamed Biden and stated there was no control. You’ve gone as far as to imply a purposeful aim. Which are simply poppycock extremist talking points.

We can both agree there isn’t an adequate process in place. And that is the fault of Congress and Trump and the GOP that killed the best border bill in decades.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[cuddlemonkey]

A drivers license would probably work. ESP if it was a real id.

Non-citizens can get driver's licenses. Why not a birth certificate, Joe? Is it because even that doesn't work, as we have already seen? So transparent, you are.

 

[TampaJoe]

Just to be fair - you are now qualifying your statement. You have previously blamed Biden and stated there was no control. You’ve gone as far as to imply a purposeful aim. Which are simply poppycock extremist talking points.

We can both agree there isn’t an adequate process in place. And that is the fault of Congress and Trump and the GOP that killed the best border bill in decades.

Yeah well since we are about parsing words. Biden and his admin knew that once all these folks were in country that it would be difficult and costly to deport them. Mayorkas admitted as much under oath. And yet they continued to implement a weak policy anyway. Further, when migrants began to stream across the border by the thousands they stood by and claimed their hands were tied. Claimed they could do nothing without Congress. A claim that was refuted within days once he was out of office.

So the question still remains. Where do we go from here?

 

[MT15]

Yeah well since we are about parsing words. Biden and his admin knew that once all these folks were in country that it would be difficult and costly to deport them. Mayorkas admitted as much under oath. And yet they continued to implement a weak policy anyway. Further, when migrants began to stream across the border by the thousands they stood by and claimed their hands were tied. Claimed they could do nothing without Congress. A claim that was refuted within days once he was out of office.

So the question still remains. Where do we go from here?

Trump is willing to do away with due process - a right that everyone in the US is entitled to have. You seem to think this is correct and proper, and you blame Biden for not doing it. That’s messed up.

It’s a sad, sad day for America when its citizens side with a would-be king rather than our Founding Fathers.

 

[TampaJoe]

Non-citizens can get driver's licenses. Why not a birth certificate, Joe? Is it because even that doesn't work, as we have already seen? So transparent, you are.

People who come to this country as legal immigrants and go thru the system have records which LEO can access. Folks who were born here can get birth certificates. Is it perfect? No. Is the process error free? No. So let’s improve the process. What is your solution? Do nothing?

 

[TampaJoe]

Trump is willing to do away with due process - a right that everyone in the US is entitled to have. You seem to think this is correct and proper, and you blame Biden for not doing it. That’s messed up.

It’s a sad, sad day for America when its citizens side with a would-be king rather than our Founding Fathers.

I didn’t say it was correct and proper. You assume too much. I blame Biden for a lax ineffective policy that allowed millions of undocumented migrants to come across the border unvetted. I blame Biden for doing nothing about it for years and claiming there wasn’t a problem. I expect LEO to act according to the law. I expect folks who have been deported and subsequently reentered the country illegally to be deported. They already had due process.

So keep whining. That is messed up. You got no plan. You have no answers.

There are no kings in this country. Just bad leaders.

 

[J-DONK]

I didn’t say it was correct and proper. You assume too much. I blame Biden for a lax ineffective policy that allowed millions of undocumented migrants to come across the border unvetted. I blame Biden for doing nothing about it for years and claiming there wasn’t a problem. I expect LEO to act according to the law. I expect folks who have been deported and subsequently reentered the country illegally to be deported. They already had due process.

So keep whining. That is messed up. You got no plan. You have no answers.

There are no kings in this country. Just bad leaders.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A 23-year-old electrician from Brentwood is speaking out after a disturbing encounter with federal immigration agents left him handcuffed and shaken, despite being a U.S. citizen.

Elzon Lemus says he was on the job, driving in a work van with his co-worker in Westbury when they were pulled over by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents. The incident was recorded on Lemus’ phone.

“What’s up, guys? Can I see your ID, please?” an agent asks in the video.

When Lemus questions why they’re being stopped, the agent replies vaguely, "Cause you look like someone I’m looking for. Can I see your ID?"

Lemus continues, “Who are you looking for exactly? Because it’s definitely not me.”

The agent then warns him, “This is going to go one of two ways here. I need to see your ID — if you’re not the guy I’m looking for, you’re not the guy I’m looking for. But we need your ID.”

When Lemus continues to question why he’s being stopped the agent escalates and says "If we don’t get your ID we are going to need to figure out another way to ID you and that may not work out well for you."

At that point, the ICE agent forcefully opens the van door and tells Lemus to stop recording him.

"I felt like my rights were just out the window,” Lemus recalled during an interview. "It felt like I couldn’t do much now."

Lemus was pulled out of the van, placed in handcuffs, and detained for about 25 minutes while the agent searched him. When they finally found his ID confirming his citizenship, the agents let him go — without offering any explanation or apology. Lemus also asked them for their names and badge numbers and they refused.

“Without saying anything, they just left,” Lemus said. “They were pretty upset because they couldn’t take us — me and my coworker — we were fine.”

The incident comes amid increased ICE enforcement efforts across the country, but civil rights experts say this stop may have violated constitutional protections.

“They can’t randomly, on a hunch, stop people,” said Fred Brewington, a civil rights attorney representing Lemus. “That’s contrary to the Constitution.”

Brewington argues this was a clear case of racial profiling.………

A Long Island man driving to work gets handcuffed by ICE — despite being U.S. citizen

A 23-year-old electrician from Brentwood is speaking out after a disturbing encounter with federal immigration agents left him handcuffed and shaken, despite being a U.S. citizen. Elzon Lemus says he was on the job, driving in a work van with his co-worker in Westbury when they were pulled over...

www.nbcnewyork.com