Will “mass deportation” actually happen (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

It's because you are a woman that he does the fevered mind bit to you. My new friend Gemini at Google (https://gemini.google.com/app ) says:

Did you pull all of those quotes yourself directly from the original sources. If you didn't, then there's no doubt there's false information in those quotes.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

But you haven't.

So either you wouldn't say it about a guy saying the same things

or

You are implying her opinions are that much different from the rest of us "guys"

So which is it?

Sendai hasn't learned that the more Sendai talks, the more Sendai belies himself.

 

[TampaJoe]

Typical victim mentality. You are cagey about what you believe, refusing to spell it out in a great many cases. Your post to Optimus was very pointed, inferring he was okay with people lying about their citizenship process. It seemed to piggyback on the Trump admin assertions that they have the right to denaturalize people just by saying they lied, or that they somehow support gangs, terrorism or even just criminal activity.

So my advice to you would be that if you don’t want people to infer what your beliefs are, then maybe you should spell them out.

You still haven’t commented on the article I posted showing that Trump is making up new reasons not contained in the statute to denaturalize citizens. One could infer that silence is assent to that behavior.

So do you care to share your thoughts, or just want to wait in the weeds to pounce on people who go by what we can see and infer so you can play the victim?

I implied nothing. My advice to you is not to infer when nothing, absolutely nothing was implied in the first place. As I said, Sam was able to respond respectfully and intelligently whereas you weren’t. That is your problem.

As for my thoughts since you ask. If someone lies or misrepresents a material fact on their visa application or on an asylum application, in my view that is grounds to deport. If they lie or misrepresent a material fact on an application for citizenship or in an interview with an immigration official, that is grounds to deny citizenship to that individual. If such an issue is detected after they have been naturalized, that is grounds in my view, to revoke their citizenship.

I expect law enforcement and the administration to faithfully execute the laws of the UNited States and to protect and defend the Constitution. If they breach that duty, then they should be called to account in court.

As far as playing the victim, you are the one whining about respect. Or LA is whining about it. I wasn’t complaining at all.

 

[TampaJoe]

This is what I'm talking about, TampaJoe. MT15 has been as intelligent in her responses to you as anyone else has, yet here you are saying her responses to you are unintelligent.

By the way, pot and kettle and all that.

Not really. She talks as if she knows that which she has never bothered to ask. Then she claims I support things I have never opined upon. She doesn’t know anything about me and she doesn’t bother to ask. At least I asked the question of another poster. She interjected herself in a conversation I was having with that poster and then accuses me of lying in the weeds to pounce on her.

I have no feelings about her one way or the other. If she wants to have civil respectful conversations with me, then I am happy to treat her in kind. If she wants to go a different route, I can do that as well.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Not really. She talks as if she knows that which she has never bothered to ask. Then she claims I support things I have never opined upon.

What I've seen her point out is that you don't answer straight questions with straight answers. I've seen that from you too. You are evasively ambiguous, move the goalposts, do a lot of circular reasoning, and say inconsistent things.

She doesn’t know anything about me and she doesn’t bother to ask.

She's asked. Many of us have asked. Instead of giving clear and forthright answers, you do what I just mentioned above.

If you act like you're hiding something, don't be surprised when people think you're hiding something.

 

[SamAndreas]

Did you pull all of those quotes yourself directly from the original sources. If you didn't, then there's no doubt there's false information in those quotes.

Oh good grief, more projection. And face palms, about 6 of them on my post's today. I gave you at least 6 likes likes today on your posts, when I've liked what you say, and you give me back facepalms.

It's a projection because you're saying I'm posting false AI information with no standing to make that charge. What you are doing is posting false information of the the type which extruders from the rectal valves on bottoms. A 94% failure rate for questions asked of an AI was one of your linked source was spouting through their blowhole. That's what is fake news.

It's the kind of information which demands belief because it's opinion and narrative disguised as being fact, the sources you use in addition to that are awful largely opinion pieces which make grand pronouncement of doom and disaster coming soon to the conspiracy theory site of your choosing.

One can tell by the reading of what Gemini found and reported on that good sources were used and the report about them was very well written. I know it's real because It's something I've researched myself in the past. I knew what the results were going to be before I asked the AI.

I'm experimenting with AI's to find out for myself about how reasonable the results are, that's the best way to query the AI for information when I already know the correct outcome for that query.

BTW I'll inform you now so that you do not waste your time that I'm not interested in a collage of shrill sources which make claims and spout sistices which present numbers like 94% failure rate for AI's. A 94% failure rate is implausible because a coin toss is 50 50. Ridiculous.

Speaking of ridiculous, the Ridiculous 6 hanging scene for everyone reading this for entertainment:

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I'm intentionally leaving out the personal accusations you keep making against me, because they are nothing but a useless distraction.

...you're saying I'm posting false AI information with no standing to make that charge.

This is false. This is what I said that you just responded to:

"Did you pull all of those quotes yourself directly from the original sources. If you didn't, then there's no doubt there's false information in those quotes."​

​

The first sentence is a question, which you didn't answer. I asked you if you did something, I did not say you did something.

Based on your reaction to the question, it appears that you quoted directly from AI what it said that the sources said without reading the sources for yourself to verify the accuracy of what the AI said the sources said.

​

A 94% failure rate for questions asked of an AI was one of your linked source was spouting through their blowhole. That's what is fake news.

It was not fake news. The analysis was conducted by the Tow Center for Columbia Journalism Review. These are the credentials of the people you are saying "spouted through their blowholes" and are "fake news."

"The Tow Center for Digital Journalism, established in 2010, provides journalists with the skills and knowledge to lead the future of digital journalism and serves as a research and development center for the profession as a whole. Operating as an institute within Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism..."​

https://towcenter.columbia.edu/content/about-tow-center

"The Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) is a biannual magazine for professional journalists that has been published by the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism since 1961. Its original purpose was "to assess the performance of journalism in all its forms, to call attention to its shortcomings and strengths, and to help define—or redefine—standards of honest, responsible service."[2] Its contents include news and media industry trends, analysis, professional ethics, and stories behind news."​

​

Columbia Journalism Review - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These guys are not "fake news," they're the guys who point out fake news.

It's the kind of information which demands belief because it's opinion and narrative disguised as being fact,...

You just described AI chat responses which you keep vehemently and wrongly defending as factually accurate and factually trustworthy. They are not.

...the sources you use in addition to that are awful largely opinion pieces...

I just showed you, for a second time, that the people who found that Grok was 94% inaccurate are highly credible people with a high level of expertise who did actual research.

They also found that the most accurate chat AI was factually inaccurate 37% of the time. That level of inaccuracy makes them a poor and unreliable tool for getting accurate information.

One can tell by the reading of what Gemini found and reported on that good sources were used and the report about them was very well written.

Chat AI can give a list of good sources and write a very good report that is still full of factual inaccuracies.

I know it's real because It's something I've researched myself in the past. I knew what the results were going to be before I asked the AI.

Google owns Gemini and it's their search engine with AI augmentation. Google intentionally confirms people's biases. It shows them what it thinks they want to see, based on their internet activity.

Google describes Gemini as "your personal, proactive, and powerful AI assistant." The keyword is proactive. That means it actively tries to show you what it thinks you want to see. If you use google regularly, then it has a good idea of what you already believe, so of course it's going to show you things that support what it thinks you already believe. That's its primary function.

That's one of the major issue with chat AI responses. Unless you are using an AI anonymously, then it has data on you that gives it an idea of what you want to hear. If you are using Grok, it knows what you want, because it has your twitter data and more. If you use Gemini, it knows because google knows. If you use Chat GPT, it knows too, especially if you are signing in with your google account to access it. Two people can ask the same exact question of the same chat AI app and get very different "facts" and opinions as a result, because it tailors it's results to what it knows about the person asking.

If two different people read the same encyclopedia entry, then they both read the exact same thing.

I'm experimenting with AI's to find out for myself about how reasonable the results are, that's the best way to query the AI for information when I already know the correct outcome for that query.

You're assuming you are correct about everything you think you are correct about. Have you never been factually incorrect about anything? I have no doubt you are factually incorrect about some things, because we all are. The approach you're taking does not follow a scientific approach or an objective approach.

A 94% failure rate is implausible because a coin toss is 50 50.

Chat AI is in no way comparable to a coin toss. This is a completely illogical train of thought used to try to dismiss credible results of credible research conducted by a group of credible experts.

 

[TampaJoe]

What I've seen her point out is that you don't answer straight questions with straight answers. I've seen that from you too. You are evasively ambiguous, move the goalposts, do a lot of circular reasoning, and say inconsistent things.


She's asked. Many of us have asked. Instead of giving clear and forthright answers, you do what I just mentioned above.

If you act like you're hiding something, don't be surprised when people think you're hiding something.

So you think if you don’t get the answer you want, you can make it up? Is that what I am hearing. Perhaps that is one reason you get the answers you get. What she has shown is that she thinks in stereotypes. Not good logic if you ask me.

I try to be careful in how I answer questions. It is a result of years working with auditors and lawyers. I tend to explain my views and stay away from yes or no questions. Few things in life are yes and no.

That aside. I will treat her and you as you treat me. That seems fair.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So you think if you don’t get the answer you want, you can make it up? Is that what I am hearing. Perhaps that is one reason you get the answers you get. What she has shown is that she thinks in stereotypes. Not good logic if you ask me.

I try to be careful in how I answer questions. It is a result of years working with auditors and lawyers. I tend to explain my views and stay away from yes or no questions. Few things in life are yes and no.

That aside. I will treat her and you as you treat me. That seems fair.

That's not what you are hearing. You don't give straight answers, so people are left with no choice but to infer your meaning. If I had to guess, I would say that it's because you want to be able to crawfish your way out of a position because you know your positions are terrible.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Curious if they were horrified and regretted supporting Trump when they read about others in the wife’s exact situation being deported of if they only did when it personally affected their family
===================


The family of a Canadian national who supported Donald Trump’s plans for mass deportations of immigrants say they are feeling betrayed after federal agents recently detained the woman in California while she interviewed for permanent US residency – and began working to expel her from the country.

“We feel totally blindsided,” Cynthia Olivera’s husband – US citizen and self-identified Trump voter Francisco Olivera – told the California news station KGTV. “I want my vote back.”

Cynthia Olivera, a 45-year-old mother of three US-born children, thus joined a growing list of examples contradicting the Trump administration’s claims that the immigrationcrackdown it has spearheaded since the president’s return to the Oval Office in January has prioritized targeting dangerous criminals.…….

In 2024, toward the end of his presidency, Joe Biden’s administration granted her a permit allowing her to work legally in the US. She had also been navigating the process to obtain legal permanent US residency – colloquially referred to as a green card – for years.

Nonetheless, instead of supporting the candidate Biden endorsed to succeed him, then vice-president Kamala Harris, Olivera’s husband supported Trump in November’s White House election.

He told KGTV that Trump’s promises to deport criminals en masse – despite his own May 2024 conviction of felony falsification of business records – appealed to both Francisco and Cynthia.

And, echoing other mixed immigration status families who have had members affected by Trump’s policies, the Oliveras did not believe she would be hurt by her lack of legal US residency.

They learned she would in fact be affected by her immigration status when she went for a green card interview in Chatsworth, California, on 13 June.

She was detained there by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents, according to a change.org petition pleading for compassion on behalf of Cynthia.

Olivera has since been transferred to an Ice detention center in El Paso, Texas, to await being deported.

Speaking to KGTV over a video call from the El Paso facility, Olivera suggested her treatment was undeserved.

“The US is my country,” Olivera remarked to the station in an interview published on 3 July. “That’s where I met my husband. That’s where I went to high school, junior high, elementary [school]. That’s where I had my kids.”

But the Trump administration had little sympathy for Olivera, despite her husband’s support of the president, with a spokesperson saying in a statement that Cynthia was “an illegal alien from Canada”.

Olivera had been “previously deported and chose to ignore our law and again illegally entered the country”, said the spokesperson’s statement, as reported by Newsweek. The statement noted that re-entering the US without permission after being deported is a felony, and it said Olivera would remain in Ice’s custody “pending removal to Canada”.


Canada’s government commented to KGTV that it was aware of Olivera’s detention but could not intervene on her behalf because “every country or territory decides who can enter or exit through its borders”.

Francisco Olivera, for his part, summed up his and his wife’s disillusion by saying: “My wife … up until [a couple of weeks] ago, was a strong believer in what was going to happen the next four years.”………

‘I want my vote back’: Trump-voting family stunned after Canadian mother detained over immigration status

Family of Cynthia Olivera reconsiders support for president after Ice detained her at green card interview

www.theguardian.com

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

So you think if you don’t get the answer you want, you can make it up?

If I repeatedly don't get an answer that directly and clearly answers the question I asked, then it appears that the person is avoiding answering the question. If it appears a person is avoiding answering the question, then the natural response is to suspect that a person is hiding something.

That natural response is correct more often than it is not. People who seem to be hiding something are almost hiding something.

What she has shown is that she thinks in stereotypes. Not good logic if you ask me.

Pot meet kettle.

I try to be careful in how I answer questions.

Yes, that's obvious. The thing is that you seem to be very careful in how you answer questions to avoid giving straight forward and clear answers. That's exactly why it seems like you are hiding what you honestly think and believe.

I tend to explain my views and stay away from yes or no questions. Few things in life are yes and no.

This is a false framing. A lot of the questions you have been asked are not simple yes or no questions, yet you are still evasive in your answers.

Some questions are a simple yes or no. For instance, do you think what ICE is doing is morally the right thing to do? You either do or you don't.

My answer is an emphatic no, what ICE is doing is not at all moral in anyway. See how easy that is?

That aside. I will treat her and you as you treat me. That seems fair.

You do realize I've never treated you the way you have treated her and others? If you do in fact treat her the way I treat you, then that will be an improvement in how you treat her. Let's see if you actually do that.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Curious if they were horrified and regretted supporting Trump when they read about others in the wife’s exact situation being deported of if they only did when it personally affected their family
===================

The answer is probably not, because there's too much "us and them" mentality in our society and in the rest of the world.

The family of a Canadian national who supported Donald Trump’s plans for mass deportations of immigrants say they are feeling betrayed after federal agents recently detained the woman in California while she interviewed for permanent US residency – and began working to expel her from the country.

“We feel totally blindsided,” Cynthia Olivera’s husband – US citizen and self-identified Trump voter Francisco Olivera – told the California news station KGTV. “I want my vote back.”

Cynthia Olivera, a 45-year-old mother of three US-born children, thus joined a growing list of examples contradicting the Trump administration’s claims that the immigrationcrackdown it has spearheaded since the president’s return to the Oval Office in January has prioritized targeting dangerous criminals.…….

In 2024, toward the end of his presidency, Joe Biden’s administration granted her a permit allowing her to work legally in the US. She had also been navigating the process to obtain legal permanent US residency – colloquially referred to as a green card – for years.

Nonetheless, instead of supporting the candidate Biden endorsed to succeed him, then vice-president Kamala Harris, Olivera’s husband supported Trump in November’s White House election.

He told KGTV that Trump’s promises to deport criminals en masse – despite his own May 2024 conviction of felony falsification of business records – appealed to both Francisco and Cynthia.

And, echoing other mixed immigration status families who have had members affected by Trump’s policies, the Oliveras did not believe she would be hurt by her lack of legal US residency.

They learned she would in fact be affected by her immigration status when she went for a green card interview in Chatsworth, California, on 13 June.

She was detained there by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents, according to a change.org petition pleading for compassion on behalf of Cynthia.

Olivera has since been transferred to an Ice detention center in El Paso, Texas, to await being deported.

Speaking to KGTV over a video call from the El Paso facility, Olivera suggested her treatment was undeserved.

“The US is my country,” Olivera remarked to the station in an interview published on 3 July. “That’s where I met my husband. That’s where I went to high school, junior high, elementary [school]. That’s where I had my kids.”

But the Trump administration had little sympathy for Olivera, despite her husband’s support of the president, with a spokesperson saying in a statement that Cynthia was “an illegal alien from Canada”.

Olivera had been “previously deported and chose to ignore our law and again illegally entered the country”, said the spokesperson’s statement, as reported by Newsweek. The statement noted that re-entering the US without permission after being deported is a felony, and it said Olivera would remain in Ice’s custody “pending removal to Canada”.


Canada’s government commented to KGTV that it was aware of Olivera’s detention but could not intervene on her behalf because “every country or territory decides who can enter or exit through its borders”.

Francisco Olivera, for his part, summed up his and his wife’s disillusion by saying: “My wife … up until [a couple of weeks] ago, was a strong believer in what was going to happen the next four years.”………

‘I want my vote back’: Trump-voting family stunned after Canadian mother detained over immigration status

Family of Cynthia Olivera reconsiders support for president after Ice detained her at green card interview

www.theguardian.com

 

[SamAndreas]

Curious if they were horrified and regretted supporting Trump when they read about others in the wife’s exact situation being deported of if they only did when it personally affected their family
===================


The family of a Canadian national who supported Donald Trump’s plans for mass deportations of immigrants say they are feeling betrayed after federal agents recently detained the woman in California while she interviewed for permanent US residency – and began working to expel her from the country.

“We feel totally blindsided,” Cynthia Olivera’s husband – US citizen and self-identified Trump voter Francisco Olivera – told the California news station KGTV. “I want my vote back.”

Cynthia Olivera, a 45-year-old mother of three US-born children, thus joined a growing list of examples contradicting the Trump administration’s claims that the immigrationcrackdown it has spearheaded since the president’s return to the Oval Office in January has prioritized targeting dangerous criminals.…….

In 2024, toward the end of his presidency, Joe Biden’s administration granted her a permit allowing her to work legally in the US. She had also been navigating the process to obtain legal permanent US residency – colloquially referred to as a green card – for years.

Nonetheless, instead of supporting the candidate Biden endorsed to succeed him, then vice-president Kamala Harris, Olivera’s husband supported Trump in November’s White House election.

He told KGTV that Trump’s promises to deport criminals en masse – despite his own May 2024 conviction of felony falsification of business records – appealed to both Francisco and Cynthia.

And, echoing other mixed immigration status families who have had members affected by Trump’s policies, the Oliveras did not believe she would be hurt by her lack of legal US residency.

They learned she would in fact be affected by her immigration status when she went for a green card interview in Chatsworth, California, on 13 June.

She was detained there by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents, according to a change.org petition pleading for compassion on behalf of Cynthia.

Olivera has since been transferred to an Ice detention center in El Paso, Texas, to await being deported.

Speaking to KGTV over a video call from the El Paso facility, Olivera suggested her treatment was undeserved.

“The US is my country,” Olivera remarked to the station in an interview published on 3 July. “That’s where I met my husband. That’s where I went to high school, junior high, elementary [school]. That’s where I had my kids.”

But the Trump administration had little sympathy for Olivera, despite her husband’s support of the president, with a spokesperson saying in a statement that Cynthia was “an illegal alien from Canada”.

Olivera had been “previously deported and chose to ignore our law and again illegally entered the country”, said the spokesperson’s statement, as reported by Newsweek. The statement noted that re-entering the US without permission after being deported is a felony, and it said Olivera would remain in Ice’s custody “pending removal to Canada”.

I read that and I immediately thought of a violin about the size of a single grain of sand.

I can't help but chuckle. They should let her go.

 

[SystemShock]

I'm experimenting with AI's

Really? I don't think anyone noticed

A 94% failure rate is implausible because a coin toss is 50 50. Ridiculous.

I'd love to hear the explanation to that one.

Rate implies multiple events or a quantity, not just one event, as a single coin toss would be. ( Even if you take a coin and you start flipping it multiple times, the equation changes between 1 coin toss and the results of multiple coin tosses) And results from a web search, they are not binary, like a coin toss.

As for the "shrill" comment, The CJR conducted a fairly comprehensive review... the scope of the review was much larger and much more detailed than just right or wrong answers. If you are that interested in AI chatbots, perhaps you should read it.

Oh, and one more thing: did you know that a coin toss isn't truly 50|50, like hindsight? Ask Gemini if you don't believe me.

 

[Heathen]

Trump deploying Marines to Florida - where they will be under the instruction of ICE.

It’s happening

The acceleration of America into an authoritarian state

Never thought I’d see it in my lifetime

 

[Heathen]

To answer your question. I don’t 100 percent trust anyone in government anymore than I 100 percent trust anyone in industry. That is why we have oversight in government and regulatory authority in industry. It is behind the whole concept of checks and balances. It is also a very good argument for the concept of a limited federal government.

Who’s going to tell him

 

[SamAndreas]

Who’s going to tell him

Heathen Joe isn't a Trumpet or a MAGA horn.

 

[SamAndreas]

It’s happening

The acceleration of America into an authoritarian state

Never thought I’d see it in my lifetime

I'm sure worried about that. As it stands at this moment it does appear to headed that way.

I hope for a backlash which swings us back to the left as fast as we swung to the right.