Will “mass deportation” actually happen (5 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

It’s so repulsive to see people cheering for what is basically 80% the same thing as the Holocaust - different end result but otherwise very similar.

Economists have said it would tank the economy and cause inflation - notwithstanding the cost.

Is it going to actually happen or is this Build The Wall 2.0?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Naturalized citizen? Doesn't matter. They're coming for you next. Happy Independence Day...

Law used to kick out Nazis could be used to strip citizenship from many more Americans | CNN Politics

For decades, the US Department of Justice has used a tool to sniff out former Nazis who lied their way into becoming American citizens: a law that allowed the department to denaturalize, or strip, citizenship from criminals who falsified their records or hid their illicit pasts.

www.cnn.com

got to get every brown person, no matter what.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Your chip. Your problem.

And obviously you don't have a chip or axe to grind. In case it's not obvious, that was sarcasm.

I notice you only talk to MT15 like that. Why just her?

 

[MT15]

And obviously you don't have a chip or axe to grind. In case it's not obvious, that was sarcasm.

I notice you only talk to MT15 like that. Why just her?

You can add Sendai to that list as well, they’ve both been very dismissive. It’s been apparent to me who they are, and going by their ages it’s not surprising. What has surprised me is the surge of misogyny from younger men these days. That has taken me off guard.

 

[Dragon]

You can add Sendai to that list as well, they’ve both been very dismissive. It’s been apparent to me who they are, and going by their ages it’s not surprising. What has surprised me is the surge of misogyny from younger men these days. That has taken me off guard.

You're not alone — the surge in misogyny among younger men is shocking, but sadly not without context. Over the past few decades, young women have outpaced men in education, now earning nearly 60% of college degrees in the U.S. and dominating higher education globally. At the same time, many young men feel left behind, struggling with identity, economic insecurity, and a loss of traditional male privilege.

Some of that frustration is being channeled into resentment — fueled by online influencers and political movements that frame women’s success as a threat. We're seeing the result in a growing backlash against women's rights: from reproductive autonomy to attempts to roll back progress on divorce, custody, and economic independence. What looks like a return to "traditional values" is often just fear-driven reaction to shifting power.

 

[TampaJoe]

And obviously you don't have a chip or axe to grind. In case it's not obvious, that was sarcasm.

I notice you only talk to MT15 like that. Why just her?

I treat her with the same respect as she treats me.

 

[MT15]

I treat her with the same respect as she treats me.

I can and have treated you with respect, Joe. We even have somethings in common.

However, when you spout right wing talking points (which are lies) and/or defend the people who are taking a wrecking ball to my rights and the rights of millions of other people and do so blithely as if you are doing nothing wrong, I refuse to pretend that is worthy of respect.

When you are able to acknowledge that the GOP has made an about turn and is no longer the party of small government and personal freedoms, without the really tiresome false equivalency that the democrats have done anything even remotely the same, then I may change my mind about you.

I have never been anything but an independent voter, I was raised that way. But I don’t have any sort of blinders on when it comes to seeing what the GOP is doing and has become because of Trump. They have abdicated their sworn duties as elected officials, and are allowing Trump to blatantly commit high crimes and misdemeanors that he should immediately be impeached over. To pretend that democrats have done the same is just crazy talk.

That kind of gaslighting should be beneath any decent person.

 

[TampaJoe]

I can and have treated you with respect, Joe. We even have somethings in common.

However, when you spout right wing talking points (which are lies) and/or defend the people who are taking a wrecking ball to my rights and the rights of millions of other people and do so blithely as if you are doing nothing wrong, I refuse to pretend that is worthy of respect.

When you are able to acknowledge that the GOP has made an about turn and is no longer the party of small government and personal freedoms, without the really tiresome false equivalency that the democrats have done anything even remotely the same, then I may change my mind about you.

I have never been anything but an independent voter, I was raised that way. But I don’t have any sort of blinders on when it comes to seeing what the GOP is doing and has become because of Trump. They have abdicated their sworn duties as elected officials, and are allowing Trump to blatantly commit high crimes and misdemeanors that he should immediately be impeached over. To pretend that democrats have done the same is just crazy talk.

That kind of gaslighting should be beneath any decent person.

I have treated you as you have treated me. I have known Sam for years. He answered the same question intelligently and respectfully. He am I agree for the most part when it comes to this issue. But you wouldn’t know that because you assumed you knew what I thought without asking.

So that is on you and you alone.

 

[Eeyore]

Remember when the whole deportation thing was about gangs, and one in particular? That was great.

Trump DOJ Drops Cases Against Top MS-13 Leaders | National Review

The deal with Bukele comes with significant strings attached, it turns out.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[MT15]

I have treated you as you have treated me. I have known Sam for years. He answered the same question intelligently and respectfully. He am I agree for the most part when it comes to this issue. But you wouldn’t know that because you assumed you knew what I thought without asking.

So that is on you and you alone.

Typical victim mentality. You are cagey about what you believe, refusing to spell it out in a great many cases. Your post to Optimus was very pointed, inferring he was okay with people lying about their citizenship process. It seemed to piggyback on the Trump admin assertions that they have the right to denaturalize people just by saying they lied, or that they somehow support gangs, terrorism or even just criminal activity.

So my advice to you would be that if you don’t want people to infer what your beliefs are, then maybe you should spell them out.

You still haven’t commented on the article I posted showing that Trump is making up new reasons not contained in the statute to denaturalize citizens. One could infer that silence is assent to that behavior.

So do you care to share your thoughts, or just want to wait in the weeds to pounce on people who go by what we can see and infer so you can play the victim?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You can add Sendai to that list as well, they’ve both been very dismissive. It’s been apparent to me who they are, and going by their ages it’s not surprising. What has surprised me is the surge of misogyny from younger men these days. That has taken me off guard.

I'm angry and disappointed. I'm not shocked, because this really starting cooking in the early 2000's. Rural and blue collar workers lost a lot with our shift from a primarily industrial and manufacturing economy to a primarily digital and service economy. Independent farmers have been methodically driven out of business since the 80's. Our agricultural sector is dominated by corporate farming which relies on cheap immigrant labor. That test the stage for mis-directional blaming.

The immigrants get blamed for "their taking our jobs," when it's actually corporate America that took their jobs from them with the help of the government, especially the Republicans.

Everyone who is not a white skinned, Christian male gets blamed for everything that some white skinned, Christian males don't like about their lives, when its actually themselves and corporate America that created everything they don't like about their lives.

It's the oldest con in the book. Lie to people that you are making things better for them. When they get angry because of what you did to them, then blame the most vulnerable people for what the people you screwed over are angry about, then whip them into a literal killing frenzy, and then get them to do your dirty work of abusing and murdering innocent people who have no power to defend themselves.

You're not alone — the surge in misogyny among younger men is shocking, but sadly not without context. Over the past few decades, young women have outpaced men in education, now earning nearly 60% of college degrees in the U.S. and dominating higher education globally. At the same time, many young men feel left behind, struggling with identity, economic insecurity, and a loss of traditional male privilege.

They were left behind, but they were left behind mostly by the people they keep getting tricked into supporting, corporate American billionaires and the Republicans. Experiencing loss, pain and suffering never justifies inflicting loss, pain and suffering on other people. "An eye for an eye will leave everyone blind." Mohandas Gandhi.

What we choose to do in response to our fear, loss, pain and suffering is the most important and difficult choices we make. It's never justified or acceptable to choose to lash out at others and inflict fear, loss, pain and suffering onto them.

Some of that frustration is being channeled into resentment — fueled by online influencers and political movements that frame women’s success as a threat. We're seeing the result in a growing backlash against women's rights: from reproductive autonomy to attempts to roll back progress on divorce, custody, and economic independence. What looks like a return to "traditional values" is often just fear-driven reaction to shifting power.

That channeling and targeting of women started significantly escalating in the early 2000's. If you trace the history of the influencers behind the pickup artist movement, Gamer gate, the idea that women should provide free sexual use to all men, the Tea Party, very violent professional combat "sports," all of the various fake "patriot" groups that are as misogynistic as they are racist, MAGA, and the "traditional" wife movement; then you will find the same set of people are involved in pushing all of those movements.

If you did a Venn diagram showing the overlap of all the people pushing, supporting and following all of those movements, then you'd virtually end up with a single circle. Peter Thiel, (the German born American tech billionaire that thinks it's a mistake that women can vote, molded JD Vance into who he is and handpicked him as VP, helped Trump win the election, and got Trump to give him access to almost all of our private information that the government has) is involved in all of those groups except the pickup artists group. I think that's only because he likes having sex with men instead of women, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I treat her with the same respect as she treats me.

It doesn't look that way to me. You and I have had stern words of disagreement with each other, but I have never seen you show the level of personal contempt towards me that you have to MT.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I have treated you as you have treated me. I have known Sam for years. He answered the same question intelligently and respectfully.

This is what I'm talking about, TampaJoe. MT15 has been as intelligent in her responses to you as anyone else has, yet here you are saying her responses to you are unintelligent.

By the way, pot and kettle and all that.

 

[MT15]

This is what I'm talking about, TampaJoe. MT15 has been as intelligent in her responses to you as anyone else has, yet here you are saying her responses to you are unintelligent.

By the way, pot and kettle and all that.

And Sendai loves to say I have a “fevered mind”. He does that repeatedly. But not to anyone else that I have seen.

It is what it is. At their age they won’t change, I’m sure.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

And Sendai loves to say I have a “fevered mind”. He does that repeatedly. But not to anyone else that I have seen.

It is what it is. At their age they won’t change, I’m sure.

I forgot Sendai made those comments to you. It's just more of his complete and utter trolling bullshirt.

 

[SamAndreas]

And Sendai loves to say I have a “fevered mind”. He does that repeatedly. But not to anyone else that I have seen.

It is what it is. At their age they won’t change, I’m sure.

It's because you are a woman that he does the fevered mind bit to you. My new friend Gemini at Google (https://gemini.google.com/app ) says:

The phrase "fevered mind" is deeply rooted in 19th-century medical and literary contexts, often as "brain fever." My search indicates that while it wasn't exclusively an insult to women, its usage and the broader societal understanding of women's mental and physical health in that era often gave it a gendered connotation, linking it to female "nervous illnesses" and "hysteria."

Here's a breakdown of its meaning, past usage, and potential as a gendered insult:

Meaning and Origin:

• "Brain Fever" (early 19th century onward): The term "fevered mind" is closely associated with the older medical diagnosis of "brain fever" or "cerebral fever," which became common in the early 19th century. This was an outdated term for phrensy or inflammation of the brain, leading to symptoms like mental confusion, headache, flushed skin, delirium, and sensitivity to light and sound.
• Medical and Metaphorical: While physicians recognized real physical symptoms consistent with conditions like meningitis or encephalitis, "brain fever" also encompassed conditions believed to be brought on by severe emotional upset or excessive intellectual activity. In literature, it often served as a plot device to depict a character undergoing intense emotional or psychological distress, not necessarily a literal high temperature.

Past Usage Style and Literary Contexts:

• Romanticized in Victorian Literature: "Brain fever" was a popular trope in 19th-century novels. Characters, both male and female, would contract it after experiencing significant emotional shock, grief, or trauma. Examples include Pip in "Great Expectations," Emma Bovary, and Jonathan Harker in "Dracula."
• Narrative Function: Authors like Dickens used fevers (including "brain fever") to drive plot, signal moral transformation, or allow characters to experience profound internal revelations through delirium.
• "Nervous Illnesses": "Brain fever" fell under the broader umbrella of "nervous illnesses," which were widely discussed in the 19th century, often without clear physical causes but with debilitating mental and physical symptoms.

Signs of Insult Focused on Women / Gendered Connotations:

While men could suffer from "brain fever" in literature (e.g., Jonathan Harker, Pip), there is strong evidence that women were considered particularly susceptible to such conditions, and the terminology often intertwined with broader societal biases against female mental and emotional stability.

1. "Hysteria" Connection:The most significant link to a gendered insult is the close association of "brain fever" and similar "nervous illnesses" with "hysteria."
   • Historical Gendering of Hysteria: Hysteria (from the Greek "hystera" for uterus) was for millennia, and particularly in the 19th century, considered a distinctly female illness stemming from a "wandering uterus" or issues with female reproductive organs. Symptoms included emotional outbursts, hallucinations, paralysis, and general "ungovernable emotional excess."
   • Misdiagnosis and Oppression: 19th-century medical views often linked women's mental problems directly to their reproductive organs. Women's expected domestic roles, lack of social power, and societal pressures were believed to contribute to depressive disorders, which were then frequently misdiagnosed as "hysteria" or "neurasthenia." This misdiagnosis sometimes served to pathologize female dissent or emotional responses that deviated from societal norms.
   • Psychiatric Control: In the latter half of the 19th century, psychiatry (then "alienism") sometimes contributed to derogatory discourses on the "inferiority of the weaker sex." Some male doctors used psychiatric services to control or institutionalize women who did not conform to their wishes, implying a "sick" or "unbalanced" mind.
2. "Overexerted Women": Some medical and cultural views suggested that "overexerted women" were particularly vulnerable to brain fever, reflecting prevailing ideas about female delicacy and limited intellectual or physical capacity compared to men.
3. Literary Depictions of Female Madness: Throughout history, and prominently in the 19th century, images of female madness (often linked to emotional distress) conveyed messages that women were weak, dangerous, or required containment. "Madness" was frequently depicted as a gendered concept, stemming from a belief that women were predisposed to mental and behavioral conditions based on sex-related differences in stress responses.

Conclusion:

While "fevered mind" or "brain fever" could affect anyone in historical usage, its application to women often carried an implicit, and sometimes explicit, insult by linking their mental or emotional distress to their supposed inherent "nervousness," "delicacy," or "hysteria" – qualities that were then pathologized. When used in a context suggesting irrationality, instability, or an inability to control one's emotions or thoughts, especially in contrast to a male "rational" mind, it certainly could function as a gendered put-down, rooted in the prevailing medical and societal misogyny of the time. The style of usage would imply a lack of control, an overabundance of emotion, or a deviation from expected female composure.

 

[Sendai]

It's because you are a woman that he does the fevered mind bit to you. My new friend Gemini at Google (https://gemini.google.com/app ) says:

The phrase "fevered mind" is deeply rooted in 19th-century medical and literary contexts, often as "brain fever." My search indicates that while it wasn't exclusively an insult to women, its usage and the broader societal understanding of women's mental and physical health in that era often gave it a gendered connotation, linking it to female "nervous illnesses" and "hysteria."

Here's a breakdown of its meaning, past usage, and potential as a gendered insult:

Meaning and Origin:

• "Brain Fever" (early 19th century onward): The term "fevered mind" is closely associated with the older medical diagnosis of "brain fever" or "cerebral fever," which became common in the early 19th century. This was an outdated term for phrensy or inflammation of the brain, leading to symptoms like mental confusion, headache, flushed skin, delirium, and sensitivity to light and sound.
• Medical and Metaphorical: While physicians recognized real physical symptoms consistent with conditions like meningitis or encephalitis, "brain fever" also encompassed conditions believed to be brought on by severe emotional upset or excessive intellectual activity. In literature, it often served as a plot device to depict a character undergoing intense emotional or psychological distress, not necessarily a literal high temperature.

Past Usage Style and Literary Contexts:

• Romanticized in Victorian Literature: "Brain fever" was a popular trope in 19th-century novels. Characters, both male and female, would contract it after experiencing significant emotional shock, grief, or trauma. Examples include Pip in "Great Expectations," Emma Bovary, and Jonathan Harker in "Dracula."
• Narrative Function: Authors like Dickens used fevers (including "brain fever") to drive plot, signal moral transformation, or allow characters to experience profound internal revelations through delirium.
• "Nervous Illnesses": "Brain fever" fell under the broader umbrella of "nervous illnesses," which were widely discussed in the 19th century, often without clear physical causes but with debilitating mental and physical symptoms.

Signs of Insult Focused on Women / Gendered Connotations:

While men could suffer from "brain fever" in literature (e.g., Jonathan Harker, Pip), there is strong evidence that women were considered particularly susceptible to such conditions, and the terminology often intertwined with broader societal biases against female mental and emotional stability.

1. "Hysteria" Connection:The most significant link to a gendered insult is the close association of "brain fever" and similar "nervous illnesses" with "hysteria."
   • Historical Gendering of Hysteria: Hysteria (from the Greek "hystera" for uterus) was for millennia, and particularly in the 19th century, considered a distinctly female illness stemming from a "wandering uterus" or issues with female reproductive organs. Symptoms included emotional outbursts, hallucinations, paralysis, and general "ungovernable emotional excess."
   • Misdiagnosis and Oppression: 19th-century medical views often linked women's mental problems directly to their reproductive organs. Women's expected domestic roles, lack of social power, and societal pressures were believed to contribute to depressive disorders, which were then frequently misdiagnosed as "hysteria" or "neurasthenia." This misdiagnosis sometimes served to pathologize female dissent or emotional responses that deviated from societal norms.
   • Psychiatric Control: In the latter half of the 19th century, psychiatry (then "alienism") sometimes contributed to derogatory discourses on the "inferiority of the weaker sex." Some male doctors used psychiatric services to control or institutionalize women who did not conform to their wishes, implying a "sick" or "unbalanced" mind.
2. "Overexerted Women": Some medical and cultural views suggested that "overexerted women" were particularly vulnerable to brain fever, reflecting prevailing ideas about female delicacy and limited intellectual or physical capacity compared to men.
3. Literary Depictions of Female Madness: Throughout history, and prominently in the 19th century, images of female madness (often linked to emotional distress) conveyed messages that women were weak, dangerous, or required containment. "Madness" was frequently depicted as a gendered concept, stemming from a belief that women were predisposed to mental and behavioral conditions based on sex-related differences in stress responses.

Conclusion:

While "fevered mind" or "brain fever" could affect anyone in historical usage, its application to women often carried an implicit, and sometimes explicit, insult by linking their mental or emotional distress to their supposed inherent "nervousness," "delicacy," or "hysteria" – qualities that were then pathologized. When used in a context suggesting irrationality, instability, or an inability to control one's emotions or thoughts, especially in contrast to a male "rational" mind, it certainly could function as a gendered put-down, rooted in the prevailing medical and societal misogyny of the time. The style of usage would imply a lack of control, an overabundance of emotion, or a deviation from expected female composure.

I’d say the same thing about a guy saying the same things.

 

[SamAndreas]

I’d say the same thing about a guy saying the same things.

Oh yaw, I'm sure you would, except what the chances of a guy would say anything remotely similar to what MT15 says all the time around here // sarcasm.

 

[CoolBrees]

I’d say the same thing about a guy saying the same things.

But you haven't.

So either you wouldn't say it about a guy saying the same things

or

You are implying her opinions are that much different from the rest of us "guys"

So which is it?