What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[MT15]

What details were fabricated or skewed?

If you prefer, you can just link me to the discussions you all had about this, and I can read them. If you do that, I'll respond in the "all things LGBT-Q thread.

It’s in this very thread. The search function works.

 

[Snarky Sack]

It’s in this very thread. The search function works.

Ok, when I have time.

 

[MT15]

Ok, when I have time.

Edit: it’s in the LBGTQ thread. I thought we were in that thread at the time.

 

[MT15]

With the crazy and frenzied efforts to dig up something, anything on Joe Biden, the crazy stupid idea that they can reverse Trump’s 2 impeachments and the recent declaration by one House Republican that he wants to open an investigation into whether Joe Biden withheld information about the Titanic submersible in order to distract from Hunter (LOLOLOLOL), Jamie Raskin has a valid point here:

 

[Snarky Sack]

Edit: it’s in the LBGTQ thread. I thought we were in that thread at the time.

I took a look, and what I found was an exchange between you and farb. farb talked about a trans student who raped a couple of girls in the girls bathrooms, and you said that he was not trans.

I saw no refutation of my statement that he raped a girl, the district covered it up, and then he raped another girl.

Since I did not say he was trans, that would not be an area of disagreement. I think he was just a butt crevise who put on a skirt to go into the girls bathroom.

But the question is where to draw the line. "Transexuals" as they used to be called have been around since the seventies at least. As we more or less agreed, as long as they look like "real" women, no one is the wiser when they use the female bathrooms.

It's when men make either unconvincing efforts to hide their maleness, or very little effort like just putting on a skirt that the issue of women and girls feeling unsafe and having their privacy violated arises.

Lia Thomas is clearly the latter category of making very little effort to present as female, except that - as far as I know - he has never put on a skirt, dress or anything else that indicated being female except for his tuck-friendly swimsuit.

I'm not a big fan of Dylan Mulvaney, but the little guy makes the effort, I gotta give him that.

 

[brandon]

It's when men make either unconvincing efforts to hide their maleness, or very little effort like just putting on a skirt that the issue of women and girls feeling unsafe and having their privacy violated arises.

I look forward to your trans dress code proposal.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I look forward to your trans dress code proposal.

I don't really need one, because my stance is that sex is different from gender, and that female private areas should not be encroached on by males, regardless of their expressed gender.

It is for transactivists and their supporters to state their actual stance on who is and is not allowed into female spaces.

If I, a balding, bearded, well past middle aged man who wears cargo shorts and polo shirts am not allowed to walk into the womens bathroom, what males are?

 

[brandon]

I don't really need one, because my stance is that sex is different from gender, and that female private areas should not be encroached on by males, regardless of their expressed gender.

I see you’ve subtly adjusted your position based on my thorough takedown of your previous position.

I can keep swatting down your ridiculousness with logic, but at some point it becomes tiresome. You’re just gonna have to acknowledge you’re a bigot who finds trans people icky and that’s your justification for discrimination.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I see you’ve subtly adjusted your position based on my thorough takedown of your previous position.

If it makes you feel good to think so, feel free. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I debate several posters at once and can't keep track of who said what.

I can keep swatting down your ridiculousness with logic, but at some point it becomes tiresome. You’re just gonna have to acknowledge you’re a bigot who finds trans people icky and that’s your justification for discrimination.

Typical fallback from a losing argument.

Why don't you admit that you find anyone who disagrees with you and bests you in a debate icky?

 

[MT15]

I took a look, and what I found was an exchange between you and farb. farb talked about a trans student who raped a couple of girls in the girls bathrooms, and you said that he was not trans.

I saw no refutation of my statement that he raped a girl, the district covered it up, and then he raped another girl.

Since I did not say he was trans, that would not be an area of disagreement. I think he was just a butt crevise who put on a skirt to go into the girls bathroom.

But the question is where to draw the line. "Transexuals" as they used to be called have been around since the seventies at least. As we more or less agreed, as long as they look like "real" women, no one is the wiser when they use the female bathrooms.

It's when men make either unconvincing efforts to hide their maleness, or very little effort like just putting on a skirt that the issue of women and girls feeling unsafe and having their privacy violated arises.

Lia Thomas is clearly the latter category of making very little effort to present as female, except that - as far as I know - he has never put on a skirt, dress or anything else that indicated being female except for his tuck-friendly swimsuit.

I'm not a big fan of Dylan Mulvaney, but the little guy makes the effort, I gotta give him that.

If the teen in question was wearing a skirt that day, it doesn’t matter as to whether he walked into the restroom or not. He was accustomed to walking into that restroom and using it as a location for sex. It was evidently a place that was mostly abandoned at that time in that school.

I’ve got news for you: women are sort of used to feeling unsafe in any isolated location when there is a male they don’t know present with them. So your idea that we should ostracize and punish trans women because cis men would dress up as trans in order to gain entrance is misplaced. It actually misses the point entirely.

Let’s try this: if a person sexually attacks another person, let’s prosecute that person to the fullest extent of the law. No more excuses, no more looking the other way. No more “she was asking for it” or “did you see the way she was dressed” or “why was she out so late” or “she should have never gone with him in the first place”.

Quit punishing trans women by sending them into a men’s restroom where there’s a decent chance they will be either verbally or physically attacked.

 

[MT15]

Also: I detest dresses and skirts. I don’t wear them. Does that make me trans?

Let’s hear your dress codes then, since evidently a trans woman cannot win with you.

Edit to add: so you agree that blanket banning of trans women from women’s restrooms is pointless?You seem to agree with that when you say that most times no one is the wiser when a trans woman uses a women’s restroom. That it’s only when men decide to dress up as trans women that there’s an issue? Maybe we can agree on this in some small way?

 

[Snarky Sack]

If the teen in question was wearing a skirt that day, it doesn’t matter as to whether he walked into the restroom or not. He was accustomed to walking into that restroom and using it as a location for sex. It was evidently a place that was mostly abandoned at that time in that school.

Very poor administration of that school, then. To be clear are you talking about both schools in which he raped a girl?

I’ve got news for you: women are sort of used to feeling unsafe in any isolated location when there is a male they don’t know present with them.

I don't blame them, as sorry as men are nowadays (on average).

So your idea that we should ostracize and punish trans women because cis men would dress up as trans in order to gain entrance is misplaced. It actually misses the point entirely.

Let’s try this: if a person sexually attacks another person, let’s prosecute that person to the fullest extent of the law. No more excuses, no more looking the other way.

So you strongly disagree with the Loudoun County superintendent for covering up that rape and simply moving the rapist to another school?

No more “she was asking for it” or “did you see the way she was dressed” or “why was she out so late” or “she should have never gone with him in the first place”.

Never should have been a thing in the first place.

Quit punishing trans women by sending them into a men’s restroom where there’s a decent chance they will be either verbally or physically attacked.

Stop punishing women who are biological females by sending them into a woman's restrooom where there is a decent chance that a biological male who is a woman will verbally or physically attack them.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Also: I detest dresses and skirts. I don’t wear them. Does that make me trans?

No, nor does it make me trans if I finally wear a kilt like I've been wanting to to celebrate my heritage.

Let’s hear your dress codes then, since evidently a trans woman cannot win with you.

Again, it is not up to me to say what makes a biological male "trans enough" to use women's restrooms. Again, I ask: if merely thinking in my mind that I am trans is not enough to be allowed access to the bathrooms for women/females, what would be required?

I know you already disagree with my female or male, women or men idea because that is the sport. But it is an excellent idea. Perfect idea. Solves the problem and no one is forced to do anything. You know, choice?

You and Brandon may have missed that a couple of days ago I agreed that on this board female and male are biological, while woman and man is unrelated to biology and are a function of self-identity.

Using that as a guide, let each owner of each set of bathroom decide if they want to have male and female, or mens and womens, bathrooms. Then those who use a "women's" room will know that there may be biological males in there and can decide whether to go in.

Edit to add: so you agree that blanket banning of trans women from women’s restrooms is pointless?You seem to agree with that when you say that most times no one is the wiser when a trans woman uses a women’s restroom. That it’s only when men decide to dress up as trans women that there’s an issue? Maybe we can agree on this in some small way?

I hope so.

The four issues with a transwoman who is a biological male walking into a woman's room are:

1) Danger
2) Perceived danger
3) Loss of privacy
4) Perceived loss of privacy

If the transwoman who is a biological male is convincing enough, then there will be no perceived danger, nor perceived loss of privacy. If she is authentically and sincerely transgender, fully perceiving herself as a woman, then there is little more actual danger than if any woman walked in.

I think we would agree that an purported transwoman who went into a woman's bathroom and raped a female is not really trans, no matter how "real" they looked. There is little to be done about people that skilled at deception, other than imprison them for life when they are caught to protect future women and girls.

Same applies to loss of privacy. But I wonder if you think people need privacy from the opposite gender or sex in public bathrooms? Or, as you stated, do the stall provide sufficient privacy?

If that is the case, the whole argument becomes moot. Just take off the stupid signs and say "we happen to have two bathrooms, but anyone can use either."

I doubt the more radical transactivists and their unwitting supporters would go along with that.

 

[LA - L.A.]

It's when men make either unconvincing efforts to hide their maleness, or very little effort like just putting on a skirt that the issue of women and girls feeling unsafe and having their privacy violated arises.

I had assumed you were born with XY chromosomes, but you keep speaking for people born with XX chromosomes as if you know how they feel and what they think.

You go as far as telling someone who was born with XX chromosomes that they are wrong about what people born with XX chromosomes feel and think.

Was I mistaken to think you were born with XY chromosomes?

 

[LA - L.A.]

If it makes you feel good to think so, feel free.

This is an inherently authoritarian mindset. None of us need anyone else's permission to think what we think.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I debate several posters at once and can't keep track of who said what.

Then you're "debating" to many people at a time. I put "debate" in quotation marks, because to have an authentic, intelligent, and productive debate, one must truly listen to others and respond to what they actually said. One is clearly not doing that if one "can't keep track of who said what."

Why don't you admit that you find anyone who disagrees with you and bests you in a debate icky?

This is the attitude of someone who is trying to "prove they're right" at any and all costs. It is not the attitude of someone engaging in genuine and open minded debate.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Stop punishing women who are biological females by sending them into a woman's restrooom where there is a decent chance that a biological male who is a woman will verbally or physically attack them.

When making policies one needs to make the desired outcome of the policy the foundation of that policy.

It seems that Snarky Sack's desired outcome is for people born with XX chromosomes to be safe from verbal and physical attack while in a public restroom.

Does anyone here object to this goal? I haven't seen anyone object to that goal.

There seems to be a unanimous agreement that we should do what we can to make XX people safe from verbal and physical attacks while in a public restroom. I think we should do that in all places, not just restrooms, and for all people, not just those born with XX chromosomes.

So we all agree that XX born people should be protected from verbal and physical attack while in public restrooms.

The disagreement is over how do we go about accomplishing that. Snarky Sack argues for banning people with XY chromosomes from using the same restrooms as people born with XX chromosomes to protect people with XX chromosomes. They think that banning XY people will protect people with XX chromosomes from being verbally and physically assaulted in public restrooms.

That policy is based on the incorrect assumption that only XY people verbally and physically assault XX people. That's not factually accurate and policies should be grounded in facts, not feelings. Some XX people verbally and physically assault other XX people, so Snarky Sack's policy would not accomplish the desired outcome of keeping XX people safe from verbal and physical assault.

The best way to protect XX, and XY, people from verbal and physical assault in public restrooms is to have a policy that all public restrooms must be individually isolated and secure., like the bathrooms at a fast food restaurant.

If that is not practical, then all public restrooms should be required to have individually locking and completely private stalls with the only communal areas being the hand washing and diaper changing areas.

That policy would provide a safe environment for everyone without the need to know anyone's intention ahead of time. That would also mean it wouldn't matter what a person's chromosomes, gender identity or sexual preferences are when they enter a public restroom, so we wouldn't have to try to prejudge anyone's intentions or identity.

Can we all agree that private bathrooms or stalls would be the best way to accomplish making public restrooms safe from verbal and physical assaults for everyone?

 

[Snarky Sack]

I had assumed you were born with XY chromosomes, but you keep speaking for people born with XX chromosomes as if you know how they feel and what they think.

You go as far as telling someone who was born with XX chromosomes that they are wrong about what people born with XX chromosomes feel and think.

Was I mistaken to think you were born with XY chromosomes?

I thought we were supposed to forget about chromosomes and go by what people identify as.

Since gender is a social construct why as about XX or XY?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I took a look, and what I found was an exchange between you and farb. farb talked about a trans student who raped a couple of girls in the girls bathrooms, and you said that he was not trans.

The second victim was raped in a classroom, not a bathroom. Do you support keeping trans people out of classrooms as well?

What that guy did was rape. He didn't do it because trans kids were allowed to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity. He did it because he's an butt crevasse rapist.