What happens to the Republican Party now? (2 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[el caliente]

I do...and it ain't even close!

Well of course you do, but I don’t.

It’s wild that in a country with over 332M people, these two dinosaurs will garner the most support for the highest office in the land.

 

[LA - L.A.]

INDEED.

I understand that they are serious and I understand that although my entire family was born in this country we are an unwelcomed houseguest in their eyes. All of "the others" are and now they have expanded their vitriol to anyone that don't subscribe to their ideas.

The Republican's electorate values extremist and their elected officials are too weak to bring them back from the brink that they led them to through years of feeding them that Democrats are the enemy. The Democrat's electorate choose to side with the likes of Clinton x2, Obama, and Biden, all of which are the most moderate/centrist they have to offer over a Sanders type and yet Republicans label them "the radical far-left socialist"? How do you debate against that in a two-party system? How can we govern?

I don't know what its like to experience life as you have. I do know what it's like to be unwelcome by one's own family. It's really difficult and clinically depressing, which makes everything in life more difficult. I can't imagine how difficult it is to be unwelcome by way too many people on a daily basis. I hope the bastages haven't completely ground you and your family down. I hope that you get to see a significant improvement in your lifetime and that each generation gets the same.

I think we've been teetering on a very dangerous edge for several years now. The Republicans have been playing political footsies under the table with fascist minded people for decades which opened the door for the fascists to slowly seize control over the Republican party. The table had already been set for someone to do what Trump has done and continues to do. Trump just beat others to the punch. Lot's of Republicans eagerly and quickly jumped on Trump's bandwagon. They excuse his criminal behavior, because being able to put others "back in their place" is the more to them than Trump's integrity, and some actually see what Trump does as having integrity.

The Democratic party as a whole, not just those who have held office, is made up mostly of people who genuinely strive to promote equality and inclusion. I think that's the real reason that Republicans hate the Democratic party. That's why the culture war competes with the economy as a top voting issue for a lot of Republicans. Some of that hate is also personal, generational resentment from when the Dixiecrats failed in their effort to take over the Democratic party. Instead, they switched to the Republican party and patiently took control of it.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Well of course you do, but I don’t.

It’s wild that in a country with over 332M people, these two dinosaurs will garner the most support for the highest office in the land.

Then I ask you, what's the alternative? This country has already proven to you that its not ready to move.

Obama was elected and many thought "We Made It!", but they failed to see how this country reacted to his election. IMO, Obama was Clinton 1.3...a centrist, but to the opposition he was a black, radical leftist socialist! They formed the tea party and fired up the D's are the enemy rhetoric to the point where their electorate has regressed to pre-civil rights hate.

I get it! You want to move forward, but I'm here to tell ya...we ain't dere yet.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I do...and it ain't even close!

I completely agree. I don't like Biden and wish it was someone else, but Trump is much worse than Biden. Biden stumbles when speaking, because he's at least trying to be coherent and say something of substance. Trump is fluid because he just rants and raves about whatever he's feeling in the moment and it's always self-centered and self-aggrandizing.

Edited to add: Reagan was in worse shape when during his second run, but no one had an issue with it then. The reality is that the office of the President is a group effort. Biden will be no less able to be a president in a second term than Reagan was.

I don't like Biden, because I don't like a lot of his policy views and he's the epitome of a politician. I'll take that any day over a sociopathic person on the extreme end of the NPD spectrum who wants to be the supreme leader. I mean, when Trump and anyone else is the choice, not voting for Trump is rarely going to be a difficult decision at all.

For the dismissive of being a never-Trump-er, that's like trying to ridicule me for being a never-cancer-er. Of course, I'm always going to want to avoid getting cancer.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I completely agree. I don't like Biden and wish it was someone else, but Trump is much worse than Biden. Biden stumbles when speaking, because he's at least trying to be coherent and say something of substance. Trump is fluid because he just rants and raves about whatever he's feeling in the moment and it's always self-centered and self-aggrandizing.

The goal should have always been a 1 term Biden Presidency for the Democrats but not moving Harris to the forefront has been a huge misstep IMO, because now they have no one on the bench, ready to step-up.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Then I ask you, what's the alternative? This country has already proven to you that its not ready to move.

Obama was elected and many thought "We Made It!", but they failed to see how this country reacted to his election. IMO, Obama was Clinton 1.3...a centrist, but to the opposition he was a black, radical leftist socialist! They formed the tea party and fired up the D's are the enemy rhetoric to the point where their electorate has regressed to pre-civil rights hate.

I get it! You want to move forward, but I'm here to tell ya...we ain't dere yet.

I think the pre-civil rights hate was always there after the Dixiecrats changed colors. They just switched to covert mode. I think Obama getting elected scared them into switching to a more overt mode. Then Trump came along and won the election going full on in your face mode with it. Then it was game on for all of them.

It's been a terrible thing on balance, but I think it shocked the majority of Americans out of apathy. I think the more the Republicans elect people who are openly fascist and cater to the fascists, the more people will be motivated to vote against them.


Trump and journalists are always touting that Trump's popularity in the Republican party keeps increasing, what they don't tell you is that's because most of the Republicans who can't stand Trump left the Republican party. Their membership was already in steady decline when Trump came along. That decline accelerated after 2016.

The goal should have always been a 1 term Biden Presidency for the Democrats but not moving Harris to the forefront has been a huge misstep IMO, because now they have no one on the bench, ready to step-up.

I cynically think one of the reasons Biden chose Harris is that he saw here as not a real threat to challenge him if he decided to run for a second term. I think Harris would have a hard time winning the election, because she's a woman and she's not a white woman. That's a big disadvantage to be starting from. It isn't right or justified, but I think that's unfortunately the reality of where were at.

 

[Dragon]

I think the pre-civil rights hate was always there after the Dixiecrats changed colors. They just switched to covert mode. I think Obama getting elected scared them into switching to a more overt mode. Then Trump came along and won the election going full on in your face mode with it. Then it was game on for all of them.

It's been a terrible thing on balance, but I think it shocked the majority of Americans out of apathy. I think the more the Republicans elect people who are openly fascist and cater to the fascists, the more people will be motivated to vote against them.


Trump and journalists are always touting that Trump's popularity in the Republican party keeps increasing, what they don't tell you is that's because most of the Republicans who can't stand Trump left the Republican party. Their membership was already in steady decline when Trump came along. That decline accelerated after 2016.

I cynically think one of the reasons Biden chose Harris is that he saw here as not a real threat to challenge him if he decided to run for a second term. I think Harris would have a hard time winning the election, because she's a woman and she's not a white woman. That's a big disadvantage to be starting from. It isn't right or justified, but I think that's unfortunately the reality of where were at.

And yet a lot of polls have shown a big support for Michelle Obama (Who certainly do not want to run)

 

[MT15]

No doubt. Praise Allah that the GOP has stopped turning up its nose at appealing to blacks. At least Trump has. In light of the Democrats catering to illegal immigrants from Latin-America, who take jobs that might otherwise help American citizens of color move up to the middle class, they are an untapped gold mine for Republicans.

But Republicans have turned up their noses at appealing to blacks specifically, falling back on "a rising tide raises all boats," and other nonsense. Nobody cares about all boats. They care about their own boat.

Suppose - just suppose - that Hunt has no particular political views, but is just saying whatever it takes to hold onto his seat.* What he is doing benefits him in the short run. I'd bet my kids college fund that he'll be re-elected in 2024.

Later, if such an opportunist needs to, he'll shift gears. Right now, politically, for a Republican, supporting Trump is by far the best course,

Allah forbid, Trump should die, anyone who opposed him on the GOP side is toast, politically.


That seems to assume that being president is every pol's goals. Maybe it is for most.

But for Wesley Hunt? A guy who worked his way from an impoverished and marginalized black youth to be a congressman? Leading committees and being the scourge of the wokesters that infest the government will be good enough. A senior leadership position like Speaker or whip or Minority Leader? He'll take it.

Is it?

Does that mean that you do NOT support abortion up until birth, or does that mean that you will obfuscate and refuse to answer?

Take your time, I have to crawl into bed now.

What a bunch of unsupported hooey about immigration. Just can’t help yourself from editorializing about how “evil” Dems are even when we’re attempting to have a somewhat normal conversation.

Yes, I acknowledged right away that he could be saying what needs to be said, and not what he believes. Not an ideal trait, but common. My entire response was based on your idea that he would make a good VP candidate, which would necessitate a broader appeal than what he seems to be aiming for right now.

Do you know for a fact he grew up impoverished and marginalized? I cannot find anything about his background other than he attended a private K-12 school in Houston that is pretty pricey and grew up in a military family. His own website doesn’t list his parents’ names. It’s entirely possible, but I sort of expected to see him use that angle if it is indeed what happened.

Also, I meant exactly what I said about abortion up until birth, and you won’t bait me into a conversation about it here because this isn’t the place for it. My sentence was clear.

 

[MT15]

The goal should have always been a 1 term Biden Presidency for the Democrats but not moving Harris to the forefront has been a huge misstep IMO, because now they have no one on the bench, ready to step-up.

After we saw what has happened to the R party after 2 Obama terms, you think there’s a universe where America will vote for Harris? After we saw what the far left of the Dem party did to avoid electing Clinton also? It’s not right and it’s not fair, at all, and I say this as someone who really likes Harris.

The right is trying to take away women’s rights now like at no time for over 50 years. Women’s right to bodily autonomy is stripped away, in more ways than one. The SBC is putting out there the old chestnut that marital rape isn’t possible. That women cannot ever refuse to have sex with their husbands. Women are being openly viewed as property and another thing some prominent voices in the SBC are saying is that women should never hold any job where they would have to supervise any man.

 

[Snarky Sack]

What a bunch of unsupported hooey about immigration. Just can’t help yourself from editorializing about how “evil” Dems are even when we’re attempting to have a somewhat normal conversation.

Right, but we can't have a normal conversation if it means that the rule is that you can criticize Republicans or Trump supporters, but I cannot criticize Democrats. That kind of conversation is not normal for me, anyway.

Yes, I acknowledged right away that he could be saying what needs to be said, and not what he believes. Not an ideal trait, but common. My entire response was based on your idea that he would make a good VP candidate, which would necessitate a broader appeal than what he seems to be aiming for right now.

Gotcha. I doubt that he would even think of being VP candidate in 2024, having just served two years in national office. He knows that the GOP is not likely to give him the Obama treatment. On the other hand, Trump might see him as exactly the kind of loyalist he needs. And I doubt that Trump will pick a white male as his VP.

Do you know for a fact he grew up impoverished and marginalized? I cannot find anything about his background other than he attended a private K-12 school in Houston that is pretty pricey and grew up in a military family. His own website doesn’t list his parents’ names. It’s entirely possible, but I sort of expected to see him use that angle if it is indeed what happened.

No, I was being a little tongue in cheek with that one, parodying the typical stereotype about black people.

Also, I meant exactly what I said about abortion up until birth, and you won’t bait me into a conversation about it here because this isn’t the place for it. My sentence was clear.

You brought abortion up and implied that opposing abortion up to the moment of birth is crazy because nobody supports that.

 

[MT15]

Right, but we can't have a normal conversation if it means that the rule is that you can criticize Republicans or Trump supporters, but I cannot criticize Democrats. That kind of conversation is not normal for me, anyway.

Gotcha. I doubt that he would even think of being VP candidate in 2024, having just served two years in national office. He knows that the GOP is not likely to give him the Obama treatment. On the other hand, Trump might see him as exactly the kind of loyalist he needs. And I doubt that Trump will pick a white male as his VP.

No, I was being a little tongue in cheek with that one, parodying the typical stereotype about black people.

You brought abortion up and implied that opposing abortion up to the moment of birth is crazy because nobody supports that.

No, my sentence was clear. You mischaracterizing it (again) is another bait attempt.

I get what you mean about criticizing. But can we at least be factual in our criticisms? There is no official democratic support for illegal immigration. That’s a gross exaggeration. I was attempting to keep my criticism to what is actually said and done by Republicans.

 

[Optimus Prime]

And yet a lot of polls have shown a big support for Michelle Obama (Who certainly do not want to run)

She’s made that very very clear

 

[Snarky Sack]

No, my sentence was clear. You mischaracterizing it (again) is another bait attempt.

I get what you mean about criticizing. But can we at least be factual in our criticisms? There is no official democratic support for illegal immigration. That’s a gross exaggeration. I was attempting to keep my criticism to what is actually said and done by Republicans.

Come on. Of course they are not going to openly say they want more illegal immigration. But Mayorkas sitting in front of the Senate and saying, "Uh, Senator, the uh border is not uh open." doesn't make this:

Any less real.

But, let's say you are right. The administration has found enough loopholes that they can plausibly claim that what is happening is actually legal.

Biden's policies allow anyone, anytime, to sneak across the border and if caught, then apply for asylum. His unaccompanied minors policy means that anyone who claims to be under a certain age is automatically let in and they are often horribly exploited.

Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the U.S.

scm.ncsu.edu

 

[Snarky Sack]

This story is interesting:

RNC won’t drop party loyalty pledge requirement despite pushback from GOP candidates - Washington Examiner

The Republican National Committee won’t drop its debate requirement to support the party’s eventual presidential nominee even amid backlash from some GOP candidates who say they’ll refuse to back former President Donald Trump, who has emerged as the early front-runner. At least two candidates so...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

The Republican National Committee won’t drop its debate requirement to support the party’s eventual presidential nominee even amid backlash from some GOP candidates who say they’ll refuse to back former President Donald Trump, who has emerged as the early front-runner.

At least two candidates so far, former Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) and former Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR), said they would sign the pledge in order to become eligible for participation in the GOP primary debates. However, the two have raised questions about whether they’d actually follow through with that promise, prompting criticism from RNC leaders.

Seriously? Christie and Hutchinson both say "sure, I'll sign the pledge. But I'm not going to actually keep my word, you kiddin' me?" They expect to pull a lot of voters from Trump? Not that it would be a surprise if they pledged and then reneged. In 2016 some of them did exactly that.

Loyalty pledges are asinine, well lampooned in "Catch-22" (the book). This one is obviously for the purpose of keeping Donald Trump out of the debate, but now it has backfired on the RNC. They should have just said "Trump is not allowed in the debates," or "no one under indictment allowed in the debates." Be honest.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Come on. Of course they are not going to openly say they want more illegal immigration. But Mayorkas sitting in front of the Senate and saying, "Uh, Senator, the uh border is not uh open." doesn't make this:

Any less real.

That photo is from 2021. I found it on an NPR story that opens with this sentence:

"The Department of Homeland Security will begin deporting planes full of Haitian migrants as soon as Sunday to discourage more border-crossers from streaming into a camp in South Texas."

Not exactly the open borders you claim.

But, let's say you are right. The administration has found enough loopholes that they can plausibly claim that what is happening is actually legal.

Biden's policies allow anyone, anytime, to sneak across the border and if caught, then apply for asylum.

That's not Biden's policy. That is international law.

His unaccompanied minors policy means that anyone who claims to be under a certain age is automatically let in and they are often horribly exploited.

Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the U.S.

scm.ncsu.edu

These children are supposed to have adult relatives they live with and HHS is supposed to be monitoring all of this. The breakdown in the system is apparent and absolutely needs to be fixed. This is a problem that was going on before Biden, and before Trump as well. It's been happening for a very long time.

 

[MT15]

Come on. Of course they are not going to openly say they want more illegal immigration. But Mayorkas sitting in front of the Senate and saying, "Uh, Senator, the uh border is not uh open." doesn't make this:

Any less real.

But, let's say you are right. The administration has found enough loopholes that they can plausibly claim that what is happening is actually legal.

Biden's policies allow anyone, anytime, to sneak across the border and if caught, then apply for asylum. His unaccompanied minors policy means that anyone who claims to be under a certain age is automatically let in and they are often horribly exploited.

Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the U.S.

scm.ncsu.edu

It’s not Biden’s policy, and nobody claims that illegals immigration is in fact legal. If you are reading claims like these two, you are being snookered.

Just look up the US asylum policy and see when it was enacted. It’s the same one the Trump admin had. And no, we don’t allow anyone to claim asylum, it’s limited. You have to meet certain requirements. Biden didn’t change anything that the law stipulates. He just stopped the Trump policies that ignored the laws that Congress has passed.

Who is exploiting unaccompanied minors? Let’s tell the entire story. Huge agribusinesses are mostly who is exploiting migrant minors. And they give heavily to Republican causes.

I totally agree with your final paragraph. My opinion is that the R party (and some Dems also) don’t want to fix immigration. There are more Dems who want to fix it than Rs, IMO. ****addendum**** I just looked up randomly, lol. It’s actually cuddle’s last paragraph I totally agree with.

 

[Snarky Sack]

It’s not Biden’s policy, and nobody claims that illegals immigration is in fact legal. If you are reading claims like these two, you are being snookered.

Just look up the US asylum policy and see when it was enacted. It’s the same one the Trump admin had. And no, we don’t allow anyone to claim asylum, it’s limited. You have to meet certain requirements. Biden didn’t change anything that the law stipulates. He just stopped the Trump policies that ignored the laws that Congress has passed.

If the policies of Trump and Biden are identical as to letting migrants in, why do we have such an influx of migrants from all over the world asking for asylum so much greater than under Trump? Why are border towns, often heavily populated by Latino citizens crying "uncle" because they cannot deal with the influx? Why did New York renounce its status as a sanctuary city? Not because of a busload or two that DeSantis sent them, but because of planeloads and busloads that Biden sent them unannounced. The country cannot handle the number of migrants Biden is allowing in.

Regimes did not suddenly start becoming oppressive and abusive just because Biden took office. Or if they did, that would argue for getting ourselves a new president. They are coming here because they heard that the border is wide open. That's one of the few things that Mayorkas admits, but he blames Republicans for it of course.

Who is exploiting unaccompanied minors? Let’s tell the entire story. Huge agribusinesses are mostly who is exploiting migrant minors. And they give heavily to Republican causes.

Yes, and you may not like this, but I'm not a huge supporter of the Republican Party. I stopped voting Republican after I foolishly voted for Bush 41. I was libertarian, not that the Libertarian Party is worth a bucket of warm spit either. Still am libertarian philosophically. But, I am a Trump supporter, and make no bones about that.

I have no problem with the idea of punishing employers for hiring illegals. They should be heavily fined and the money used to stop the flow if excessive migration. If they just pay the fines as a cost of business, I'd rather see them in jail than encourage more child labor trafficking.

I totally agree with your final paragraph. My opinion is that the R party (and some Dems also) don’t want to fix immigration. There are more Dems who want to fix it than Rs, IMO. ****addendum**** I just looked up randomly, lol. It’s actually cuddle’s last paragraph I totally agree with.

Sadly, the desire to fix immigration will likely never be fulfilled. Dems will insists on amnesty for all illegals as their price, with a promise of border security as their offer. Only at such negotiations will they admit that the border is not secure. But the GOP has lots of old dudes with long memories and they will remember the last time they made such a bargain with Democrats. So Mayorkas, et al, will always have that excuse to play when being grilled about why he refuses to secure the Homeland.

BTW FYI FWIW, my little experiment in being nice to everyone was a miserable failure. Plan B is I'm not necessarily seeing every poster on here anymore, so some references to what others say may go over my head.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

After we saw what has happened to the R party after 2 Obama terms, you think there’s a universe where America will vote for Harris? After we saw what the far left of the Dem party did to avoid electing Clinton also? It’s not right and it’s not fair, at all, and I say this as someone who really likes Harris.

Nope.

It would have given her the practical experience that I think she needed though and to find herself. Her Presidential campaign exposed some weaknesses that I didn't think she had. She forgot how she got where she was by trying to be someone she's not and that was trying to be a far left progressive. She was a tough, hard nose prosecutor that shined on the Senate Judicial Committee and the far-left hammered Harris about her time as a prosecutor and Attorney General. Instead of embracing who she was and the job she did, she ran from it and tried to please everyone while pleasing no one.