What happens to the Republican Party now? (3 Viewers)

[MT15]

This election nonsense by Trump may end up splitting up the Republican Party. I just don’t see how the one third (?) who are principled conservatives can stay in the same party with Trump sycophants who are willing to sign onto the TX Supreme Court case.

We also saw the alt right types chanting “destroy the GOP” in Washington today because they didn’t keep Trump in power. I think the Q types will also hold the same ill will toward the traditional Republican Party. In fact its quite possible that all the voters who are really in a Trump personality cult will also blame the GOP for his loss. It’s only a matter of time IMO before Trump himself gets around to blaming the GOP.

There is some discussion of this on Twitter. What do you all think?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

The GOP is the party of Trump with a faction of anti Trumpers to large to go away.

But he's 77 now. He's over weight and under indictment. So the interesting question is where does the Party go when he dies. Can the Trump faction keep control or will the Party revert back to the Never Trumpers AKA RINO faction.

IMO the default is that it goes back to the establishment wing, the RINO group. The Trumpets appreciate an outspoken leader that fights for them. Establishment voters have always been content with mealy mouth pols who talk a good game and then knuckle under to Dems at the first negative coverage.

Trump dies, DeSantis could pick up his torch. Could, not will.

Interesting times.

Were the people that don't support Trump RINOs before Trump came along?

 

[Snarky Sack]

I think the “push” is a Republican invention. Stricter regulations on gases emitted by stoves are fine, as long as they are actually achievable, but the frenzy about banning gas stoves is just another version of the migrant caravans filled with terrorists and leprosy, IMO. One bureaucrat said that at some point in the future they might consider banning gas stoves, and Rs ran with it like it was an official stated goal. It wasn’t, and the agency said that the guy was just giving his opinion, not policy.

It was low hanging political fruit, and the Rs in Congress jumped at the chance to “solve” a problem that doesn’t exist.

I completely agree that the issue is overblown. Limiting the size of the largest burner on a gas stove is not banning it. Existing installed gas stoves would not be affected. If people are as attached to their current large burner stove as the GOP claims, as soon as the ban on new ones takes affect, numerous Youtube vid on how to keep the old style stoves going will pop up, just as we have advice on keeping old cars going.

Gas stoves started going away in the seventies, at least in Texas. I grew up with a gas stove in the house. Later new construction, driven by the Texas oil boom of the seventies, nearly always featured electric stoves, and electric water heaters. We exported all that natural gas to persons living in the north. They would move down and be surprised and say "Texans like electricity?"

Later, they made a comeback for Yuppies, who saw them a way to have a professional stove in their own homes, on the island in the middle of the kitchen. Those Yuppies, now upper middle class Republicans, are the ones complaining.

 

[DaveXA]

I completely agree that the issue is overblown. Limiting the size of the largest burner on a gas stove is not banning it. Existing installed gas stoves would not be affected. If people are as attached to their current large burner stove as the GOP claims, as soon as the ban on new ones takes affect, numerous Youtube vid on how to keep the old style stoves going will pop up, just as we have advice on keeping old cars going.

Gas stoves started going away in the seventies, at least in Texas. I grew up with a gas stove in the house. Later new construction, driven by the Texas oil boom of the seventies, nearly always featured electric stoves, and electric water heaters. We exported all that natural gas to persons living in the north. They would move down and be surprised and say "Texans like electricity?"

Later, they made a comeback for Yuppies, who saw them a way to have a professional stove in their own homes, on the island in the middle of the kitchen. Those Yuppies, now upper middle class Republicans, are the ones complaining.

I've had both over the years, and gas stoves are superior in just about every way. When I bought my current house, a gas stove/oven was definitely on the wish list and I've really enjoyed cooking on it. I won't ever go back to electric stoves if I can help it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

He's over weight and under indictment.

That’s actually clever

 

[Snarky Sack]

I've had both over the years, and gas stoves are superior in just about every way. When I bought my current house, a gas stove/oven was definitely on the wish list and I've really enjoyed cooking on it. I won't ever go back to electric stoves if I can help it.

I hope you will always be able to keep yours. You may want to stock up on spare parts while you can.

Were the people that don't support Trump RINOs before Trump came along?

In short, yes.

Most of the Republicans who don't support Trump were called RINOs well before Trump came along. RINO meaning someone who runs as a Republican, and espouses Republican values but either goes along with or gives into every Democrat demand at the first sign of negative press coverage.

Trump brought in many new Republican voters, primarily working class Democrats who realized that the Party had lost interest in protecting their interests. That is why Trump has so many more black supporters than any previous Republican. "RINO" was primarily used with a president like Reagan or Bush 43 came along and actually tried to achieve what republicans like George "read my lips" Bush promised. Then the RINO's were exposed when they knuckled under to Democrats.

 

[brandon]

RINO meaning someone who runs as a Republican, and espouses Republican values but either goes along with or gives into every Democrat demand at the first sign of negative press coverage.

Can you name a pre-Trump Republican who fit this description?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Can you name a pre-Trump Republican who fit this description?

Mitch McConnell. Already mentioned Bush 41.

 

[brandon]

Mitch McConnell. Already mentioned Bush 41.

Bush 41? A Republican president and literally the leader of the party was a RINO? I would think it’s logically impossible for the leader of the party to be a RINO.

And McConnell? The guy who screwed Obama out of a Supreme Court nomination to hand it to Republicans?

Like, out of all the possibilities, these are the two you came up with?

 

[MT15]

I hope you will always be able to keep yours. You may want to stock up on spare parts while you can.

In short, yes.

Most of the Republicans who don't support Trump were called RINOs well before Trump came along. RINO meaning someone who runs as a Republican, and espouses Republican values but either goes along with or gives into every Democrat demand at the first sign of negative press coverage.

Trump brought in many new Republican voters, primarily working class Democrats who realized that the Party had lost interest in protecting their interests. That is why Trump has so many more black supporters than any previous Republican. "RINO" was primarily used with a president like Reagan or Bush 43 came along and actually tried to achieve what republicans like George "read my lips" Bush promised. Then the RINO's were exposed when they knuckled under to Democrats.

If you go by percentages of black voters - to correct for increased numbers as the US population grows - Trump really doesn’t stand out for support from black voters.

No, Trump Didn’t Win ‘The Largest Share Of Non-White Voters Of Any Republican In 60 Years’

While Trump did improve on his performance with minorities in 2020 vs. 2016, according to exit polls, the previous Republican president—George W. Bush—did significantly better in 2004.

www.forbes.com

From the article:

 

[Snarky Sack]

If you go by percentages of black voters - to correct for increased numbers as the US population grows - Trump really doesn’t stand out for support from black voters.

No, Trump Didn’t Win ‘The Largest Share Of Non-White Voters Of Any Republican In 60 Years’

While Trump did improve on his performance with minorities in 2020 vs. 2016, according to exit polls, the previous Republican president—George W. Bush—did significantly better in 2004.

www.forbes.com

From the article:

You are correct.

"Any previous Republican" was an overstatement Yes, blacks voted for Republicans in droves during the years after Republicans freed them.

Fairest comparison is 2004 and before. Low Black vote for the GOP was to be expected in 2008 and 2012. I'm surprised that Ford was the champ at winning GOP votes in recent history.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Bush 41? A Republican president and literally the leader of the party was a RINO? I would think it’s logically impossible for the leader of the party to be a RINO.

And McConnell? The guy who screwed Obama out of a Supreme Court nomination to hand it to Republicans?

Like, out of all the possibilities, these are the two you came up with?

Yes. Who would you suggest?

 

[brandon]

Yes. Who would you suggest?

I dunno. Wouldn’t consider myself an expert on RINOs. But you made the claim about RINOs, so it’s on you to support it.

DINOs thought - Tulsi Gabbard and Kyrsten Sinema come to mind. Both had pretty non-standard views for the Democratic Party of the time and both eventually left the party altogether.

I can’t think of realistic analogues on the Republican side. Maybe someone else can.

 

[brandon]

I will say this though: my reasoning for why Bush 41 can’t be a RINO is that he was the leader of the party - ergo, he was basically the embodiment of Republicanism for his time. Republicans who bucked against Bush 41 would have been the RINOs of his day, not the other way around.

By the same token, Trump, as leader of the party, is the embodiment of Republicanism today. Ergo, any Republicans who are bucking against him (Romney, Cheney, etc) could be considered RINOs today, even if they were legit Republicans in the past, or even the leaders of the party (Romney) in the past.

They are RINOs now, but only because the party left them behind.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I dunno. Wouldn’t consider myself an expert on RINOs. But you made the claim about RINOs, so it’s on you to support it.

DINOs thought - Tulsi Gabbard and Kyrsten Sinema come to mind. Both had pretty non-standard views for the Democratic Party of the time and both eventually left the party altogether.

Agreed.

I can’t think of realistic analogues on the Republican side. Maybe someone else can.

I offered two examples and you rejected them. That's your right, but I'm not going to keep throwing up names for you to disagree with.

Maybe this would be more productive: Do you see two factions in the GOP, one that supports Trump and one that does not? If you wanted to call Trump supporters "RINO Republicans" for not supporting the GOP establishment, you would have a valid point also.

But even previous to Trump, I saw a distinction between Reps who walked the walk and Reps who only talked the talk.

 

[DaveXA]

Agreed.

I offered two examples and you rejected them. That's your right, but I'm not going to keep throwing up names for you to disagree with.

Maybe this would be more productive: Do you see two factions in the GOP, one that supports Trump and one that does not? If you wanted to call Trump supporters "RINO Republicans" for not supporting the GOP establishment, you would have a valid point also.

But even previous to Trump, I saw a distinction between Reps who walked the walk and Reps who only talked the talk.

His point was that Bush might be considered a RINO now, but at the time he was President, he clearly wasn't a RINO. I mean, in a lot of ways, Biden would be the Bush of his party, and I can't recall anyone calling him a DINO.

I'd say that the GOP has moved and the former leaders of the party are considered RINOs now. So the definition of RINO has clearly changed in the last 10-15 years.

 

[Snarky Sack]

His point was that Bush might be considered a RINO now, but at the time he was President, he clearly wasn't a RINO. I mean, in a lot of ways, Biden would be the Bush of his party, and I can't recall anyone calling him a DINO.

Yes, I see your point.

I'd say that the GOP has moved and the former leaders of the party are considered RINOs now. So the definition of RINO has clearly changed in the last 10-15 years.

Yes, with the influx of Trump supporters as GOP voters, the party has shifted. The younger Trump supporters in Congress are different in beliefs and demeanor to old school Reps.

 

[MT15]

Yes, I see your point.

Yes, with the influx of Trump supporters as GOP voters, the party has shifted. The younger Trump supporters in Congress are different in beliefs and demeanor to old school Reps.

Which of the younger Trump supporters do you see as most promising?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

The Republican Party is why we are tethering on the edge of losing our Democracy.

During the very same hour in which the former president surrendered to federal authorities in Miami, his Republican allies in the House were, in their most visible and official way yet, embracing as heroes and martyrs the people who sacked the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in hopes of overturning Trump’s election defeat.


In the Capitol complex, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), with sidekick Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and four other far-right lawmakers, held a “hearing” that honored participants in the riot, family members of Jan. 6 rioters and organizers of the attempted overthrow of the 2020 vote.

Technically, Gaetz couldn’t call such a hearing, because he isn’t a committee chairman. But House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who is trying to win back the support of extremists such as Gaetz, let it happen anyway.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/06/16/house-gop-trump-indictment-reaction-jan-6/

These are not serious people.