What happens to the Democratic Party now? (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

I’m sure much of us are having 2016 flashbacks this morning with a sick feeling to our stomachs..

2 of the last 3 elections Democrats have lost to a far right demagogue

Harris didn’t get close in many states to even Biden’s performance. We could very well lose the Presidency, Senate AND House depending on results the next few days…..

What went wrong?
What could’ve been done better?
What can we change in the future to ensure voters are motivated like they were when Obama was elected?

Democrats have no choice but to admit there’s a huge problem with some aspect of their platform— and to do a deep introspection of what’s going wrong..

 

[Texan1211]

What she has planned next is unclear – but her punchy, optimistic speech made clear she had no plans to remain on the sidelines.…

She may be able to win if she runs for governor, Congresswoman or Senator in California, but I am afraid her window for a successful nationwide election is gone forever.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Something catastrophic would have to happen for the Dems to lose in 2028. Like, a really terrible candidate. I mean God awful. Why?

Because no other Republican can pull the votes Trump can. He has no coattails. If the problem was "Democrats" they would have lost the Senate seats in all those swing states where Trump won by a comfortable margin but Democrat Senators or Governors won. In many cases, they won with the same number of votes that Kamala lost with, but Trump got significantly more votes than other Republicans. People were coming in, voting for Trump, and going home. They didn't care about Republicans and they weren't anti-Democrat, they just loved Trump. If Democrats were the problem Republicans wouldn't have a historically slim margin in the House despite heavily gerrymandered districts.

He's a unique political figure in all of American history. We see other politicians run out of Washington on a log for less than he does on a daily basis. It's not repeatable and Democrats aren't the problem.

I'm looking forward to 2028 when we can go back to normal predictable politics and the normal ebbs and flows.

 

[Heathen]

I don't think much actual introspection will occur. Lots of time spent bashing voters who didn't vote for Harris, though.
Really the only question to ask is how much further left will they go?

Not far at all is the likely unfortunate answer

 

[Heathen]

Something catastrophic would have to happen for the Dems to lose in 2028. Like, a really terrible candidate. I mean God awful. Why?

Because no other Republican can pull the votes Trump can. He has no coattails. If the problem was "Democrats" they would have lost the Senate seats in all those swing states where Trump won by a comfortable margin but Democrat Senators or Governors won. In many cases, they won with the same number of votes that Kamala lost with, but Trump got significantly more votes than other Republicans. People were coming in, voting for Trump, and going home. They didn't care about Republicans and they weren't anti-Democrat, they just loved Trump. If Democrats were the problem Republicans wouldn't have a historically slim margin in the House despite heavily gerrymandered districts.

He's a unique political figure in all of American history. We see other politicians run out of Washington on a log for less than he does on a daily basis. It's not repeatable and Democrats aren't the problem.

I'm looking forward to 2028 when we can go back to normal predictable politics and the normal ebbs and flows.

I don’t know that I’d go as far as to assume this, personally. I think we run into the danger of the whole “we can just do what we normally do after all of this blows over”. Which is precisely what we thought in this election, to me a more stunning loss for team blue than 2016.

Sure, Trump has been a unique figure in American politics - there’s no denying that. Democrats have also been uniquely bad at winning over voters and delivering at crunch time outside of Trump.

Also, I think Trump will have copycats that emerge.

 

[Dragon]

I don’t know that I’d go as far as to assume this, personally. I think we run into the danger of the whole “we can just do what we normally do after all of this blows over”. Which is precisely what we thought in this election, to me a more stunning loss for team blue than 2016.

Sure, Trump has been a unique figure in American politics - there’s no denying that. Democrats have also been uniquely bad at winning over voters and delivering at crunch time outside of Trump.

Also, I think Trump will have copycats that emerge.

Four years is a long time in the current situation and lots of things can happen before then.

Unfortunately, hate often sells better than unity or compassion, and the world seems to be trending towards authoritarianism, driven largely by misinformation and societal confusion. The patterns we're seeing today bear unsettling similarities to the mid-1930s, compounded by the looming climate crisis—and it will happen sooner than many people realize.

As climate change intensifies and forces large-scale migrations, the current trickle of displaced people will swell into a deluge. The resulting fight for resources and survival will destabilize the structures and balances we take for granted today.

Adding to this volatile mix is artificial intelligence, with its ability to generate deepfakes and manipulate reality, further fueling distrust and division. Those with power, wealth, and influence will exploit every tool at their disposal to ensure their survival and that of their progeny, often at the expense of ordinary people.

Regions less impacted by climate change will become coveted strongholds, transforming into exclusive enclaves of privilege and influence. Meanwhile, areas rendered uninhabitable by climate shifts will be abandoned, leaving their populations to fend for themselves in increasingly desperate circumstances.

I truly hope I am wrong about this, but I fear it is not the case.

 

[Texan1211]

Not far at all is the likely unfortunate answer

They have moved pretty far left as the GOP moves further right.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

They have moved pretty far left as the GOP moves further right.

Where is the center for you on major issues?

 

[Texan1211]

Where is the center for you on major issues?

I am all for abortion with some limits. I think the middle is my position.
I am for strict enforcement of gun laws and would like to see some more laws passed and strictly enforced. Seems to be in the middle, too.
I am for securing our borders as much as possible and ensuring we know who comes here and why they are coming here. If that isn't the middle, it should be.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I am all for abortion with some limits. I think the middle is my position.
I am for strict enforcement of gun laws and would like to see some more laws passed and strictly enforced. Seems to be in the middle, too.
I am for securing our borders as much as possible and ensuring we know who comes here and why they are coming here. If that isn't the middle, it should be.

What a total non answer

Did you really just answer the question "Where is the center for you on major issues?" with basically:

"For me the center is the middle"

 

[Texan1211]

What a total non answer

Did you really just answer the question "Where is the center for you on major issues?" with basically:

"For me the center is the middle"

Do you not comprehend what abortions with some restrictions means? That IS the middle between abortions with no restrictions and no abortions.
Same with gun laws, the extreme positions are no guns and those who want no gun laws.

 

[Texan1211]

What a total non answer

Did you really just answer the question "Where is the center for you on major issues?" with basically:

"For me the center is the middle"

What are middle positions for you on abortion, guns, the border?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Do you not comprehend what abortions with some restrictions means? That IS the middle between abortions with no restrictions and no abortions.
Same with gun laws, the extreme positions are no guns and those who want no gun laws.

What does "some restrictions" mean?

I wouldn't call a six week restriction being "in the middle" or having one facility in the entire state being "in the middle"

You were the one being intentionally vague

 

[Optimus Prime]

What are middle positions for you on abortion, guns, the border?

I posted this here before on guns
==================

It is 10am on the east coast right now

I do not own a gun. If I decide right now "I want to buy a gun" I don't think there should be anyway or any scenario that I should have a gun in my possession in my home by the time I go to bed tonight

Saying "I think I want to buy a gun" should be less like "I think I want to buy a new TV" and more like "I think I want to adopt a baby" - there should be a thorough process

There should be required training/safety/storage requirements (in fact there should be required before you're able to take possession of a gun)

If someone wants to own a hundred guns, they can own a hundred guns. But there should be a record of the 100 guns, exactly what the gun is, serial number, where you got it, and if you sell a gun, who did you sell it to, and that person need to register that they got it from you

And no one needs 100 guns for home defense or hunting, if you want that many guns fine, but once you get past X number of guns there should an extra fee/tax

I believe it's the same for cars, at some point a few cars turns into a fleet which I think there are costs past that threshold

Once the number of guns you have can be described as an arsenal - there should be extra costs involved

I don't think that background checks should be a one and done. That's fine for one handgun but for a certain number of guns or certain type there should be periodic checks

You pass the checks with flying colors today, great. 3 years from now you start tweeting out violent threats, that should show up on someone's radar and someone should show up on your doorstep (side question, why do so many of these shooters seem to post about it or general violent intentions beforehand?)

These are just some thoughts I've had, and I know they are inconvenient, especially for life long responsible gun owners, but I don't think there is any way to solve this issue without causing inconveniences

 

[Optimus Prime]

posted this article before
================

PRAGUE — When eight people had taken their seats in the classroom, the proctor put on his glasses and said it was time to begin. He took attendance. He glowered as one person walked in late.

He described how the test would work — 30 multiple-choice questions, 40 minutes — and how to properly mark an X on the answer sheet. Then he ordered phones away; only a pen and paper, he said, were permitted on the table.
“If anybody needs to go to the toilet, now is the time,” he said.


The test had all the tedious markings of a high school exam, down to the motivational poster on the wall saying “I will.”

But in the Czech Republic, this is part of how you obtain a gun.


And 40 minutes later, three of the nine had already failed, ushered out the door as the others went on to the later stages of the exam, in which they had to prove the ability to handle a weapon safely and shoot accurately.

In an America riven by gun violence, with recent mass killings at a Walmart in Virginia and an LGBTQ club in Colorado, weapons can often be purchased without even a background check.

With the country divided about even the smallest changes to gun laws, the question is only hypothetical: What if anybody who wanted a gun had to first prove their competence?


The Czech Republic embodies an answer.

By European standards, its gun laws are permissive. It allows people to carry concealed weapons for the purpose of self-defense, and it is one of the few countries in the world — and the only one in Europe — that provide the constitutional right to bear arms.

But exercising that right is contingent on the test.

Czech lawmakers and gun owners say their national system dramatically increases the odds of responsible ownership. The rules also require a health clearance and a background check, and demand safe storage of weapons once they are purchased.

In a country more populous than New York City, there were seven homicides using guns during all of last year.


“We really have bad politics in many ways here — corruption. But something I am proud of is this law,” said Martin Fiser, 35, a weapons instructor. “It can be a model for the rest of the world.”

The test is obligatory for anybody who wants a weapon, including hunters, collectors, even someone inheriting a shotgun from a grandfather.

The standards are high: The test consists of questions randomly drawn from a pool of 501 possible.

Those trying to obtain the hardest-to-get license — for concealed carry — can miss no more than one question. The failure rate is around 40 percent…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/25/gun-rights-test-czech-republic/

 

[brandon]

I am all for abortion with some limits. I think the middle is my position.

That's the Democrats' position.

I am for strict enforcement of gun laws and would like to see some more laws passed and strictly enforced. Seems to be in the middle, too.

That's the Democrats' position.

I am for securing our borders as much as possible and ensuring we know who comes here and why they are coming here. If that isn't the middle, it should be.

That's (fairly close to) the Democrats' position.

So it looks like, for you, Democrats are the middle.

 

[Dragon]

posted this article before
================

PRAGUE — When eight people had taken their seats in the classroom, the proctor put on his glasses and said it was time to begin. He took attendance. He glowered as one person walked in late.

He described how the test would work — 30 multiple-choice questions, 40 minutes — and how to properly mark an X on the answer sheet. Then he ordered phones away; only a pen and paper, he said, were permitted on the table.
“If anybody needs to go to the toilet, now is the time,” he said.


The test had all the tedious markings of a high school exam, down to the motivational poster on the wall saying “I will.”

But in the Czech Republic, this is part of how you obtain a gun.


And 40 minutes later, three of the nine had already failed, ushered out the door as the others went on to the later stages of the exam, in which they had to prove the ability to handle a weapon safely and shoot accurately.

In an America riven by gun violence, with recent mass killings at a Walmart in Virginia and an LGBTQ club in Colorado, weapons can often be purchased without even a background check.

With the country divided about even the smallest changes to gun laws, the question is only hypothetical: What if anybody who wanted a gun had to first prove their competence?


The Czech Republic embodies an answer.

By European standards, its gun laws are permissive. It allows people to carry concealed weapons for the purpose of self-defense, and it is one of the few countries in the world — and the only one in Europe — that provide the constitutional right to bear arms.

But exercising that right is contingent on the test.

Czech lawmakers and gun owners say their national system dramatically increases the odds of responsible ownership. The rules also require a health clearance and a background check, and demand safe storage of weapons once they are purchased.

In a country more populous than New York City, there were seven homicides using guns during all of last year.


“We really have bad politics in many ways here — corruption. But something I am proud of is this law,” said Martin Fiser, 35, a weapons instructor. “It can be a model for the rest of the world.”

The test is obligatory for anybody who wants a weapon, including hunters, collectors, even someone inheriting a shotgun from a grandfather.

The standards are high: The test consists of questions randomly drawn from a pool of 501 possible.

Those trying to obtain the hardest-to-get license — for concealed carry — can miss no more than one question. The failure rate is around 40 percent…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/25/gun-rights-test-czech-republic/

Sounds very much like our system except with one difference.

The police needs to approve the safes that you use for your guns and ammonition. They literally visit your home to ensure that the cabinets are securely installed (must be bolted to the wall) and be in separate rooms. They also need to be dual locked. (Code AND key)

 

[Optimus Prime]

This should be a bigger issue

In our 2 mega threads on abortion (this one and the Ginsberg thread) and online comments in general there's quite a bit of

She did the crime she needs to do the time

This wouldn't have happened if she wasn't sleeping around

She should have realized that actions have consequences

She made her bed, and spread her legs in them, she’s getting what she deserved

An awful lot of she, she, she and precious little about the guy who laid between her legs

While all these abortion bans are being passed where are all the accompanying laws saying the man is just as responsible as she is?

Yes, there's child support but I read an article saying that a large amount is either underpaid, sporadically paid or not paid at all. I forget the percentage that falls into one of these 3 categories but it was shockingly high

There was this from our own beloved MamaSaint (RIP)



Where are the laws making sure this never happens?

There are cases where a single mother can be asked

1. Is the father dead? "No, he isn't"
2. Do you not know where he is? "No, I know exactly where he is"
3. Is he unemployed? "No, he has a good job"

and no child support.

it costs money to track someone down and sue for child support, and enforce it

If these states were so concerned about the welfare of the child there should be a public fund and legal resources that a woman can access at no cost to get the legal action to get child support she needs from the father

If a guy makes X and is paying Y in child support today but three years from now he's making 4X then child support goes to 4Y

ideally support should be direct deposit from the father's employer and not depend on him to pay it to her

Laws and consequences for workplace shenanigans. Guy works for his buddy's company who says “I'll pay you a low salary of ABC, and support will based on that but I'll pay you XYZ under the table in cash”

severe penalties for the guy and company that gets caught doing that

And a woman should be able to attest in court that the father is a worthless, no good, piece of shirt scumbag and she gets full custody, with no visitation rights or contact. No weekends, no summers, no holidays, no Christmas gifts, or birthday cards or phone calls.

No nothing but a monthly check

And if that sounds cruel, (No one's keeping me from my kid!) it's no more so than forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want and forced to interact and co parent with a scumbag she hates and never wants to see again

Where are these laws at? Where are people even asking for these?

 

[SamAndreas]

Sounds very much like our system except with one difference.

The police needs to approve the safes that you use for your guns and ammonition. They literally visit your home to ensure that the cabinets are securely installed (must be bolted to the wall) and be in separate rooms. They also need to be dual locked. (Code AND key)

We kind of do the same thing about welding gas bottles. They actually will come and check how well you're keeping them in a commercial shop.

There's that old problem of what happens when one of the tall, not too stable cylinders falls over in a room. If the big brass valve at the top happens to hit something hard it can snapp off at the base where it's screwed onto the heavy steel cylinder.

If that happens it can kind of be like having a heavy steel rocket zooming around the shop. Zooming until it runs out of 1,500 psi gas like say Oxygen. Cylinders contain all sorts of different glasses, they are pressurized to cram enough of that gas into a cylinder to make it worthwhile. They all have the problem in that the gas comes in tall heavy unstable cylinders.

I would have made them bigger around, and not as tall.

I have a nest of quite a few cylinders at my shop. I keek a heavy chain wrapped around both them and one of the buildings steel I beams which hold up the roof.

Now that I'm retired and just fixing a few things from time to time they no longer check me. They could, but they haven't.