What happens to the Democratic Party now? (3 Viewers)

[Heathen]

I’m sure much of us are having 2016 flashbacks this morning with a sick feeling to our stomachs..

2 of the last 3 elections Democrats have lost to a far right demagogue

Harris didn’t get close in many states to even Biden’s performance. We could very well lose the Presidency, Senate AND House depending on results the next few days…..

What went wrong?
What could’ve been done better?
What can we change in the future to ensure voters are motivated like they were when Obama was elected?

Democrats have no choice but to admit there’s a huge problem with some aspect of their platform— and to do a deep introspection of what’s going wrong..

 

[efil4]

I think the markets were up big is sensible - the markets have been strong all year, but volume gets thin the weeks for the election because there’s a wait and see attitude. So that deferred volume is just waiting to go. And Trump winning means we won’t have another contested election and J6, which is good for markets, plus Trump means that business taxation will either not change or improve profits.

His inflationary policies, unpredictability, and ineptness are likely to make markets volatile or even down at some point, but for now it’s risk on.

based on feeling. Which is becoming a major role ( to be clear, "feeling" has always had a role just not as overt ) in both politics and market.

I could have seen a 500-700 pt increase. it was 1500. that is massive wait n see money on the side lol.

Once the "euphoric dust" settles, i fully expect volatility to return.

Which brings me back to political discourse and folks not having the full picture of who stands for what, what effect this has on that etc etc. its all simplified.

Bill Hicks was right 30 years ago- Go back to bed America- here, here is American Gladiators.

 

[Heathen]

I'm going to agree with SBTB. I believe it's going to be a long time before we see another Trump. If Vance had said and
done the things Trump has done this election he would have been placed in a mental ward.

I guess what is the difference with Trump then and why couldn’t someone else do it?

Playing devils advocate for a moment on myself - maybe the answer is money and his track record… but also there are many people in the US who have a lot of money and have backwards views that to me could become a Trump alike candidate..

 

[Heathen]

I think the assumption should be that there will always be narcissistic power-hungry demagogues who want power and will cross most lines to get it.

A democratic system is supposed to stop them getting it; it has to, or it ceases to be a democratic system in effect, even if it nominally remains one. Heck, the US system was designed to prevent that (or at least limit it), but I'm not sure it can hold up in an age where the reach of populist demagoguery is greater than ever and the population is too receptive to it. It's clearly possible for all three branches to fall.

The challenge for the Democrats is to work out how to defeat that without - and I cannot stress this enough - without becoming it.

Agree 100%

Though I would say now, IMHO, we are more becoming a system where power hungry demagogues are in increasingly enables through corporate ownership of the electoral process and extremist partisanship.

 

[Heathen]

All this elections proves to me is that propaganda works. If Democrats want to compete with Republicans in the current environment, they need to create a separate left wing propaganda media ecosystem where they turn everything Republicans do into they worst thing ever and blame them for everything. Turn simplistic messaging like, "Every time Republicans control the government they turn to economy to shirt." into mantras. Make every negative thing that happens into Republicans fault and distort every piece of news to their advantage. Lie to the American people every chance they get. Ignore all other constituencies and cater only to white men. That's what works in this country.

Of course I'll long have checked out if they go down that road and they will never get my vote. But that's what the plebs in the country need and want, so give them that. That's the only secret sauce to Republicans and Trump.

I don’t even think Democrats have to lie to fight dirtier, or just make part of their strategy fighting fire with fire.

Show graphic images. Call people traitors. Go all in.

But I do think that you’re right in that we probably need to focus on broader issues. As much as I hate that we are this kind of country…we may need to focus more on calling out how terrible the GOP is with the economy and how they hate the middle class just as much or more than the abortion and reproductive rights issues. That will cater to those people who are on the fence around these social issues, but can feel it in their pocket books every day.

I am all in on liberals taking off the gloves and getting some cheap shots in including after the bell on this conservative bulls***. Folks that settle to half measures across the aisle with Republicans should unless the circumstances are perfectly unique face the flames from all voters. Sure, that’s wildly idealistic, but I’m throwing things at the wall at this point to see what may stick.

 

[J-DONK]

I think people on this thread need to start with basic facts:

1. Inflation was a worldwide thing post covid.
2. A lot of incubment governments lost: Japan, England, Sweden, Finland, Portugal
3. Joe Biden was just as unpopular as all of these incubment governments.

If you start with the understanding the trends are bigger then America. We another chapter in a bigger narrative. The questions change.

It's easier to see all of this in hindsight now. It seems obvious, and it always does.

The most obvious question is how do you win a race when your own party is in power, and unpopular? How do run against the incubment adminstration? Al Gore didn't pull it off, and neither did Harris.

All this stuff about gender is misplaced, and half baked. Exiting polling showed Inflation and the economy as the big drivers.

 

[faceman]

I guess what is the difference with Trump then and why couldn’t someone else do it?

Playing devils advocate for a moment on myself - maybe the answer is money and his track record… but also there are many people in the US who have a lot of money and have backwards views that to me could become a Trump alike candidate..

A demographic Trump won big was young men. I just don't see Vance doing the same. Many people voted for
Trump simply because he's Trump. I despise Trump,but I have to give him credit. He has charisma and wears
a teflon suit.

 

[coldseat]

All this stuff about gender is misplaced, and half baked.

What does that mean? People who are trans and non-binary are not going to stop being that. They might be bullied into the corner and kept quiet by Democrats who are mad they lost, but they're not going to disappear.

Are you saying that Democrats should disassociate or attack trans and non-binar LGBTQ+ people like Republican's do?

 

[J-DONK]

What does that mean? People who are trans and non-binary are not going to stop being that. They might be bullied into the corner and kept quiet by Democrats who are mad they lost, but they're not going to disappear.

Are you saying that Democrats should disassociate or attack trans and non-binar LGBTQ+ people like Republican's do?

That Harris lost because she is a woman. My next line was about exit polls. I thought the context was obvious.

This does bring up a good point though. Is there room in the democratic party for economically liberal, but socially conserative people? It doesn't come across that way anymore.

 

[SystemShock]

All this elections proves to me is that propaganda works. If Democrats want to compete with Republicans in the current environment, they need to create a separate left wing propaganda media ecosystem where they turn everything Republicans do into they worst thing ever and blame them for everything. Turn simplistic messaging like, "Every time Republicans control the government they turn to economy to shirt." into mantras. Make every negative thing that happens into Republicans fault and distort every piece of news to their advantage. Lie to the American people every chance they get. Ignore all other constituencies and cater only to white men. That's what works in this country.

Propaganda has always worked. And the left does have a propaganda media ecosystem. The problem is that a lot of the propaganda the left puts out doesn't resonate with a very large portion of the population.

Take immigration for example. Look at the responses I got on the thread I posted about immigration being out of control. Not a single Democrat or left wing talking head said anything about the influx of immigrants being a problem, other than condemn perceived abuses by the authorities, or cry in photo ops at the border.

In all of the money they spent on surveys, polls, rallies, etc., they didn't take a minute to consider that a large portion of the population sees the influx of immigrants as a problem, even 1st-2nd generation immigrants.

And come to think of it, Bill Maher did say something about it, but many don't consider Bill Maher a progressive or left wing, because he doesn't 100% march lock and step to the DNC left wing dogma.

Of course I'll long have checked out if they go down that road and they will never get my vote. But that's what the plebs in the country need and want, so give them that. That's the only secret sauce to Republicans and Trump.

Just like many check out and vote for Jill Stein or not vote at all?

But as I said before, the left leaning electorate has to understand, you have to seize power before you can implement any progressive policies. This is something that seemingly the right wing understands.

 

[porculator]

What does that mean? People who are trans and non-binary are not going to stop being that. They might be bullied into the corner and kept quiet by Democrats who are mad they lost, but they're not going to disappear.

Are you saying that Democrats should disassociate or attack trans and non-binar LGBTQ+ people like Republican's do?

Treat the issue like Republicans treat tax cuts for the rich. Don't talk about it. Everyone knows you're for it.

Unless you think tampons in boys restrooms or changing the word "woman" to "birthing person" is a winning issue. Pretty sure its the last thing any democrat wants to have a soundbite of.

 

[J-DONK]

Treat the issue like Republicans treat tax cuts for the rich. Don't talk about it. Everyone knows you're for it.

Unless you think tampons in boys restrooms or changing the word "woman" to "birthing person" is a winning issue. Pretty sure its the last thing any democrat wants to have a soundbite of.

It has the easiest brush off of talking point too. "As Democrats we stand for, and defend the rights of every miniority group no matter how small. We are talking about .001 of the population. Let's discuss something that actually effects most American's: Donald Trump's middle tax hikes."

This is softball league politics.

 

[coldseat]

That Harris lost because she is a woman. My next line was about exit polls. I thought the context was obvious.

My apologies, I misunderstood what you where saying.

This does bring up a good point though. Is there room in the democratic party for economically liberal, but socially conserative people? It doesn't come across that way anymore.

Probably not. The problem with social conservatives is they want to impose their beliefs on others instead of respecting other's different beliefs. How do you mix all that in a bag and make it work.

 

[coldseat]

Propaganda has always worked. And the left does have a propaganda media ecosystem. The problem is that a lot of the propaganda the left puts out doesn't resonate with a very large portion of the population.

No, I disagree. It's nothing like the right's propaganda machine. They were able to fabricate a whole "stolen election" out of thin are and sustain it for the last 4 years. The left doesn't have anywhere near the propaganda ability to pull that off.

Take immigration for example. Look at the responses I got on the thread I posted about immigration being out of control. Not a single Democrat or left wing talking head said anything about the influx of immigrants being a problem, other than condemn perceived abuses by the authorities, or cry in photo ops at the border.

In all of the money they spent on surveys, polls, rallies, etc., they didn't take a minute to consider that a large portion of the population sees the influx of immigrants as a problem, even 1st-2nd generation immigrants.

And come to think of it, Bill Maher did say something about it, but many don't consider Bill Maher a progressive or left wing, because he doesn't 100% march lock and step to the DNC left wing dogma.

Yeah, in retrospect the Democrats message that we can secure the border but don't have to demonizing immigrants was too unpalatable for a rabid American electorate, even Latino voters. They're eating dogs and cats after all.

Just like many check out and vote for Jill Stein or not vote at all?

But as I said before, the left leaning electorate has to understand, you have to seize power before you can implement any progressive policies. This is something that seemingly the right wing understands.

I don't know, maybe. Depends on how I feel in 4 years. Every time Democrats seize power and implement progressive policies (like Joe Biden did), the American electorate punishes them for it and votes them out. So ...

 

[coldseat]

Treat the issue like Republicans treat tax cuts for the rich. Don't talk about it. Everyone knows you're for it.

Unless you think tampons in boys restrooms or changing the word "woman" to "birthing person" is a winning issue. Pretty sure its the last thing any democrat wants to have a soundbite of.

Did the Democrats talk about any of that? Did you see Democratic adds about the trans issues or putting tampons in boys bathrooms? That's all Republican propaganda. Even Democrats buy all the crap. Smh.

 

[J-DONK]

My apologies, I misunderstood what you where saying.



Probably not. The problem with social conservatives is they want to impose their beliefs on others instead of respecting other's different beliefs. How do you mix all that in a bag and make it work.

I don't know that the party will ever have massive appeal if we no longer want a steel factory worker who makes 50k a year who wants higher minimum wage, social democracy policies, and is pro union. Do I care if that guy is pro-life, and not wearing pride shirts? Nope.

 

[coldseat]

I don't know that the party will ever have massive appeal if we no longer want a steel factory worker who makes 50k a year who wants higher minimum wage, social democracy policies, and is pro union. Do I care if that guy is pro-life, and not wearing pride shirts? Nope.

I don't care if the guy is pro-life or doesn't wear a pride shirt, but if he wants to outlaw abortion or calls me a forking f-gay person for being gay, then I care. Because if they don't respect my rights and existence, why should I care about theirs?

 

[DaveXA]

All those groups include people of all colors obviously. I'm saying if you're making this giant venn diagram of "people we serve" that encompasses 80% of Americans, expect the other 20% to tell you to kick rocks.

I'm a 40 yr old suburban white dude and don't fit any of the categories. I personally don't take offense to it, but there's a lot of sensitive people out there.

People naturally want to be validated. If the message doesn’t speak to them, they’ll look elsewhere. For all of Trump’s faults, his message speaks to those people even if they don’t particularly like the message.

It doesn’t bother me, but there are a lot of people that feel like they’re not being included.

 

[DaveXA]

It's implied that they are included. These lists mean "also included" not "only included."

I agree, but too many people don’t think like that. The sense is you have the largest demographic looking at that list and not really seeing where they fit. They don’t get the implication that they’re a part of the list.