What happens to the Democratic Party now? (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

I’m sure much of us are having 2016 flashbacks this morning with a sick feeling to our stomachs..

2 of the last 3 elections Democrats have lost to a far right demagogue

Harris didn’t get close in many states to even Biden’s performance. We could very well lose the Presidency, Senate AND House depending on results the next few days…..

What went wrong?
What could’ve been done better?
What can we change in the future to ensure voters are motivated like they were when Obama was elected?

Democrats have no choice but to admit there’s a huge problem with some aspect of their platform— and to do a deep introspection of what’s going wrong..

 

[Dragon]

How am I forcing anything? I don't have a say on what the voters do in California. But I hope they vote down abortion. I don't have say whether there is a national abortion ban, but I would be happy if there was. I am pretty sure my stance is very consistent.

Why should you religious views be forced upon people who don't share your religion?

 

[TampaJoe]

Why should you religious views be forced upon people who don't share your religion?

Why should anyone’s values be forced upon another? You can ask that question about just about every law on the books.

 

[horse2H5]

Why should you religious views be forced upon people who don't share your religion?

Who am I forcing my religious views on? The adverse is true as well. I don't want to forcibly accept a man for a woman.

 

[Dragon]

Who am I forcing my religious views on? The adverse is true as well. I don't want to forcibly accept a man for a woman.

No you are against abortions due to your religion. Why should that be forced on others who dont share that view? And a fun fact - Did you know that the catholic church for centuries denied stilborn children the right to be burried in hallowed ground because according to their view of when life started at that time was when the child took its first breath of life.

And stop putting gender issues in every thread. You have been told that again and again

 

[TampaJoe]

No you are against abortions due to your religion. Why should that be forced on others who dont share that view? And a fun fact - Did you know that the catholic church for centuries denied stilborn children the right to be burried in hallowed ground because according to their view of when life started at that time was when the child took its first breath of life.

And stop putting gender issues in every thread. You have been told that again and again

It is against my religion to kill, to steal. So should we ignore those laws because they happen to be religious values for many people?

Should religious people be allowed to vote at all?

 

[horse2H5]

No you are against abortions due to your religion. Why should that be forced on others who dont share that view? And a fun fact - Did you know that the catholic church for centuries denied stilborn children the right to be burried in hallowed ground because according to their view of when life started at that time was when the child took its first breath of life.

And stop putting gender issues in every thread. You have been told that again and again

Every poster here makes comments that mutate threads, you as well. Its a view I don't want forced on me just as you don't want no abortion forced on you. I was only highlighting the opposite was true. And again, how I am I pushing my views on anyone?

 

[RobF]

It is against my religion to kill, to steal. So should we ignore those laws because they happen to be religious values for many people?

I mean, logically, something like "laws should not be used to impose religious beliefs on others" implies that laws should be based on other, non-religious, justifications, but sure, you can go straight to the daft, "That means any laws that share religious beliefs should be ignored even if they have non-religious justifications," if you like.

 

[horse2H5]

I'd say they need to embrace Bernie's progressive agenda. Economics. Class war. 'Cause that's what it is. Call that spade a spade and own it.
The black/latino/gay/trans part, like the sexist/racist part for the GOP is the part you don't talk about. It's assumed to be part of your efforts but not your main focus.

Dragon, Fyi, this is the first time gender was brought up in this thread. Not one complaint from anyone.

 

[Dragon]

Every poster here makes comments that mutate threads, you as well. Its a view I don't want forced on me just as you don't want no abortion forced on you. I was only highlighting the opposite was true. And again, how I am I pushing my views on anyone?

" It is a religious issue for many. And we have that right to fight for life." Your own words, and what about the life of the potential mother? Does her life not count?

 

[horse2H5]

I mean, logically, something like "laws should not be used to impose religious beliefs on others" implies that laws should be based on other, non-religious, justifications, but sure, you can go straight to the daft, "That means any laws that share religious beliefs should be ignored even if they have non-religious justifications," if you like.

Rob, you are a smart guy as I can tell by your post. But I have read this 3 or 4 times and I can't figure out what you are trying to say. I am sure it is me, but could you rephrase or provide more context?

EDIT: daft, what a great word, I had to look it up because I honestly thought it as a typo. I get what you are saying now. (this is where I would like to make an argument about LGBTQ, but will wait for a different thread)

 

[horse2H5]

" It is a religious issue for many. And we have that right to fight for life." Your own words, and what about the life of the potential mother? Does her life not count?

Of course it does. I am not making anyone follow my beliefs. I believe a certain way and I espouse it. I can not force anyone to listen to me. You know if the left would have not pushed the envelope, Roe would still be alive. But instead of abortions being saved for the circumstance of tragedy, abortion is treated as birth control. Liberal woman wear it as a badge of honor ( I will not post the social media rants as I find it disgusting). Organizations touted family planning all the while aborting MILLIONS of babies.

 

[Dragon]

Of course it does. I am not making anyone follow my beliefs. I believe a certain way and I espouse it. I can not force anyone to listen to me. You know if the left would have not pushed the envelope, Roe would still be alive. But instead of abortions being saved for the circumstance of tragedy, abortion is treated as birth control. Liberal woman wear it as a badge of honor ( I will not post the social media rants as I find it disgusting). Organizations touted family planning all the while aborting MILLIONS of babies.

93.5% of abortions occur before the fetus has developed a detectable heartbeat (Source: CDC). A woman's body is not an incubator, and a cluster of cells at this stage is not a baby. I understand that you believe life begins at conception, but at that point, it’s a single cell—again, not a baby.

To address another common MAGA myth: No late-term, viable baby is ever aborted. This is false and contradicts the ethical guidelines established by the American Medical Association (AMA). When late-term abortions occur, it is either because the mother’s life is in imminent danger (and if the mother dies, so does the child) or because the fetus has a condition incompatible with life—such as missing amniotic fluid, which can result in underdeveloped lungs and a brief, painful life of less than an hour struggling to breathe.

These decisions are heartbreaking and deeply personal, made with the guidance of medical professionals and the families involved—not for convenience or trivial reasons.

 

[horse2H5]

93.5% of abortions occur before the fetus has developed a detectable heartbeat (Source: CDC). A woman's body is not an incubator, and a cluster of cells at this stage is not a baby. I understand that you believe life begins at conception, but at that point, it’s a single cell—again, not a baby.

To address another common MAGA myth: No late-term, viable baby is ever aborted. This is false and contradicts the ethical guidelines established by the American Medical Association (AMA). When late-term abortions occur, it is either because the mother’s life is in imminent danger (and if the mother dies, so does the child) or because the fetus has a condition incompatible with life—such as missing amniotic fluid, which can result in underdeveloped lungs and a brief, painful life of less than an hour struggling to breathe.

These decisions are heartbreaking and deeply personal, made with the guidance of medical professionals and the families involved—not for convenience or trivial reasons.

Thanks for the info, but you are not going to change my mind. The cluster of cells do not turn into a dog or a waffle. Those cells turn into life. I am not trying to argue with you or get into a long debate. I have my belief and you have yours. States will vote and that will be the law. If you don't like the law, move to another state.

 

[TampaJoe]

I mean, logically, something like "laws should not be used to impose religious beliefs on others" implies that laws should be based on other, non-religious, justifications, but sure, you can go straight to the daft, "That means any laws that share religious beliefs should be ignored even if they have non-religious justifications," if you like.

Nah. Just pointing out that our laws are “shared values”. What informs those values varies from person to person. In fact many laws expand the rights of some and infringe upon the rights of others. We have a reasonable expectation that people who live here follow those laws whether they personally agree with them or not. So are we “forcing” our values on others? Not without due process.

 

[horse2H5]

I understand Denmark allows abortions up to 12 weeks.

12-week ultrasound scan in pregnancy: what to expect

The 12-week ultrasound checks that your baby is developing as expected. It mostly shows that all is well but might show a miscarriage or development problem.

raisingchildren.net.au

Is this what you consider a clump of cells?

 

[Dragon]

Thanks for the info, but you are not going to change my mind. The cluster of cells do not turn into a dog or a waffle. Those cells turn into life. I am not trying to argue with you or get into a long debate. I have my belief and you have yours. States will vote and that will be the law. If you don't like the law, move to another state.

So you finally admit that you want to force your beliefs on others. Got it I do respect that some people won't have an abortion due to THEIR beliefs but why should they decide the fate of others who don't share the same belief ?

 

[horse2H5]

So you finally admit that you want to force your beliefs on others. Got it I do respect that some people won't have an abortion due to THEIR beliefs but why should they decide the fate of others who don't share the same belief ?

Please answer above with the picture.

Again, I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone anymore than you are. The public will vote. I have 1 vote. I am not sure what you are trying to prove.

 

[Dragon]

I understand Denmark allows abortions up to 12 weeks.

12-week ultrasound scan in pregnancy: what to expect

The 12-week ultrasound checks that your baby is developing as expected. It mostly shows that all is well but might show a miscarriage or development problem.

raisingchildren.net.au

Is this what you consider a clump of cells?

Heartbeat starts at 8 weeks so that is after that date. Most abortions takes place before then. I did not say anything about 12 weeks.