Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[Paul]

I don't disagree with that...I just cannot picture it happening without some kind of major overhaul of the way our government works and some kind of accountability system for what they say. I know politicians are known for lying but this new breed of lie is something else. Twisting the truth is the norm....this is just making stuff up in order to keep the tribes fired up is another thing.

Both sides do it sure....but one side does it 80 percent of the time while the other only 20.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Trumpers lie more, but I wonder if they actually believe what they say or whether they are being deceptively dishonest. Following the the "end justifies the means" philosophy.

Sadly, I believe the extreme left also use "the end justifies the means" philosophy and they often do this in the form of pandering to minorities that are hungry for affirmation.
Having said this the liberal Democrats are the benign group in the lot.

A good example of pandering is labeling East Asian Americans as oppressed POC. First of all this group was never part of the colored label used by racist in the past and the term is woefully misapplied as this group thrives well above the caucasian population. So what are they doing? PANDERING with dishonest points.

BTW, the worst pandering move I have ever seen is Donald Trump holding up a bible.

The political parties of America make me nauseous.

Was Mitt Romney pandering when he briefly marched with BLM for 5 minutes? I guess I will never know.

In this regard I love Bernie. He is the most sincere politician out there, but had no impact on the black vote for his inability to pander.

 

[barbar]

In this regard I love Bernie. He is the most sincere politician out there, but had no impact on the black vote for his inability to pander.

Which is strange since he was actively involved in the civil rights movement in the 60's. He is the only OG activist and can't get the black vote.

I definitely do not believe that 2 wrongs make a right but the both sides argument is a little disingenuous after the last 4 years. And the crazy lying seems to just continue at max pace and max volume from this current group of repubs. I was being generous with the 80/20 it's more like 95/5 lol.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I don't know that it's as much that Sanders doesn't get black support as it is that he ran in 2016 and 2020 against people very popular in the black community who were known quantities. Hillary Clinton is very popular because black unemployment dropped by half during the Clinton years. The 90's saw an explosion of economic success in the black community (and everywhere else). It's one of the reasons Bill Clinton is jokingly referred to as the first black President.

Biden had the support of Obama which is pretty much all you need to know there. No other Democrat was taking the black vote from Obama's wingman.

I think the majority of blacks like Sanders, just not as much as (any) Clinton or the first black President's VP.

 

[barbar]

I don't know that it's as much that Sanders doesn't get black support as it is that he ran in 2016 and 2020 against people very popular in the black community who were known quantities. Hillary Clinton is very popular because black unemployment dropped by half during the Clinton years. The 90's saw an explosion of economic success in the black community (and everywhere else). It's one of the reasons Bill Clinton is jokingly referred to as the first black President.

Biden had the support of Obama which is pretty much all you need to know there. No other Democrat was taking the black vote from Obama's wingman.

I think the majority of blacks like Sanders, just not as much as (any) Clinton or the first black President's VP.

All good points and makes sense.

 

[First Time Poster]

All good points and makes sense.

Don't sleep on the fact that Bernie was a little too public with his disagreements with Obama. He wasn't a Manchin/Sinema level pain in the arse but stuff like this:

Biden Ad Watch: Did Sanders consider challenging Obama?

"Bernie Sanders was seriously thinking about challenging our first African American president in a primary." Heading int

www.politifact.com

The evidence is more solid that Sanders publicly suggested that a primary challenge to Obama would be a good idea, even if he didn’t suggest that he would run personally.

None of that should have hit the public sector. If you were considering it, it should have stayed private. But, dude was on the radio and C-Span not only floating the idea, but, full on endorsing it and even admitted he was going to consider doing it himself.

Black Democratic voters never forgot that. Obama was way too popular with AAs and there was no way in hell you were going to ever get any support from AAs to primary the first Black President. It was dumb on his part. Bernie's lack of political acumen did him in, IMHO. Someone should have gotten into his ear and said if you have any aspirations to run for President, understand you are going to have to caucas with the Democrats and Obama is untouchable. Keep the criticisms in private, help the guy with his agenda for both terms and take your shot in 4 years.

That's where Hilary quickly pivoted and Bernie didn't. Which, if I'm being honest, sucks because I think when it comes to governance, the guy would do well. His track record on Civil Rights is impeccable. I just don't think he has the political chops to get elected. Black voters don't trust him, enough.

 

[DaveXA]

Don't sleep on the fact that Bernie was a little too public with his disagreements with Obama. He wasn't a Manchin/Sinema level pain in the arse but stuff like this:

Biden Ad Watch: Did Sanders consider challenging Obama?

"Bernie Sanders was seriously thinking about challenging our first African American president in a primary." Heading int

www.politifact.com

The evidence is more solid that Sanders publicly suggested that a primary challenge to Obama would be a good idea, even if he didn’t suggest that he would run personally.

None of that should have hit the public sector. If you were considering it, it should have stayed private. But, dude was on the radio and C-Span not only floating the idea, but, full on endorsing it and even admitted he was going to consider doing it himself.

Black Democratic voters never forgot that. Obama was way too popular with AAs and there was no way in hell you were going to ever get any support from AAs to primary the first Black President. It was dumb on his part. Bernie's lack of political acumen did him in, IMHO. Someone should have gotten into his ear and said if you have any aspirations to run for President, understand you are going to have to caucas with the Democrats and Obama is untouchable. Keep the criticisms in private, help the guy with his agenda for both terms and take your shot in 4 years.

That's where Hilary quickly pivoted and Bernie didn't. Which, if I'm being honest, sucks because I think when it comes to governance, the guy would do well. His track record on Civil Rights is impeccable. I just don't think he has the political chops to get elected. Black voters don't trust him, enough.

I hadn't really thought about his comments on primarying Obama. But that would definitely raise eyebrows in the AA community. I actually met President Obama before he got elected and actually was great talking to him. Just a charismatic dude and easy to chat with. Always liked him. Too bad there's a 2 term limit. There would be no Trump administration if he got a third term, imo.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

@First Time Poster do you think his comments are something that’s widely known among black voters, or any voter for that matter? Those of us that follow the horse race remember that, but I’m not sure it’s something the Everyman has at the front of their mind.

I could be wrong though and it is a good point.

 

[First Time Poster]

@First Time Poster do you think his comments are something that’s widely known among black voters, or any voter for that matter? Those of us that follow the horse race remember that, but I’m not sure it’s something the Everyman has at the front of their mind.

I could be wrong though and it is a good point.

Not the minutiae of it but the general sense I get from persons is "you know Bernie didn't like Obama and was an Independent until he wanted to be President."

To me, that's why Joe leaned heavily into that attack of him. Clyburn/South Carolina saved Joe and Black voters bought what they were selling. AAs like Bernie, they admire Bernie but, to me, they don't fully trust Bernie. Over a Republican? Absolutely. Over an Obama-era moderate Democrat? No.

And, honestly, Bernie deserves some blame. He speaks too "matter-of-factly" about BO's Presidency. It's the difference in how we talk about Jim Mora as opposed to SP. Most of us like Jim, we respect Jim, we understand in some ways he saved football in New Orleans, he made us competitive for the first time ever, but because he never won a playoff game, we don't speak glowingly, overall, about the Mora era of Saints football, just aspects of it. On the other hand, we all refer to this as the golden era of Saints football.

Bernie talks about Obama like he is Jim Mora when, politically, he should talk about him like he is Sean Payton, whether he believes it or not. Because Dem voters, particularly AAs see him as SP and anything less breeds suspicion.

 

[DaveXA]

Not the minutiae of it but the general sense I get from persons is "you know Bernie didn't like Obama and was an Independent until he wanted to be President."

To me, that's why Joe leaned heavily into that attack of him. Clyburn/South Carolina saved Joe and Black voters bought what they were selling. AAs like Bernie, they admire Bernie but, to me, they don't fully trust Bernie. Over a Republican? Absolutely. Over an Obama-era moderate Democrat? No.

And, honestly, Bernie deserves some blame. He speaks too "matter-of-factly" about BO's Presidency. It's the difference in how we talk about Jim Mora as opposed to SP. Most of us like Jim, we respect Jim, we understand in some ways he saved football in New Orleans, he made us competitive for the first time ever, but because he never won a playoff game, we don't speak glowingly, overall, about the Mora era of Saints football, just aspects of it. On the other hand, we all refer to this as the golden era of Saints football.

Bernie talks about Obama like he is Jim Mora when, politically, he should talk about him like he is Sean Payton, whether he believes it or not. Because Dem voters, particularly AAs see him as SP and anything less breeds suspicion.

Nice, thoughtful post.

Just a thought, but I do think a lot of AAs are probably more centrist or moderate than maybe most on the right give them credit for. I do wonder if Bernie's being a Democratic socialist is part of what hurts him in AA circles. I don't know if that's true or not and it's an oversimplification, but a thought anyway.

 

[Paul]

Which is strange since he was actively involved in the civil rights movement in the 60's. He is the only OG activist and can't get the black vote.

I definitely do not believe that 2 wrongs make a right but the both sides argument is a little disingenuous after the last 4 years. And the crazy lying seems to just continue at max pace and max volume from this current group of repubs. I was being generous with the 80/20 it's more like 95/5 lol.

You are a faithful member of the tribe. However, you are correct, the Trumpers are more delusional.

Bernie is sincere. Biden and Kamala are less sincere. I am puzzled as to what most cannot see this.

 

[barbar]

You are a faithful member of the tribe. However, you are correct, the Trumpers are more delusional.

Bernie is sincere. Biden and Kamala are less sincere. I am puzzled as to what most cannot see this.

That sincerity is what I like about Bernie. The others here are correct that his inability to talk out of both sides of his mouth is what hurts him politically. I find it refreshing, but I think FTP hit it on the head....criticize Obama and you have a problem on your hands. I mean I voted for Obama twice but it's not like he was a radical progressive who really represented my views. He was just better than the other guy or gal and kept the status quo more or less.

I don't find Biden to be insincere, but Kamala has always struck me as an opportunist. As long as Biden doesn't try to hug me or kiss me on the head then we good.

 

[Paul]

That sincerity is what I like about Bernie. The others here are correct that his inability to talk out of both sides of his mouth is what hurts him politically. I find it refreshing, but I think FTP hit it on the head....criticize Obama and you have a problem on your hands. I mean I voted for Obama twice but it's not like he was a radical progressive who really represented my views. He was just better than the other guy or gal and kept the status quo more or less.

I don't find Biden to be insincere, but Kamala has always struck me as an opportunist. As long as Biden doesn't try to hug me or kiss me on the head then we good.

Despite my admiration for the sincerity of Bernie I would not vote for him. Bernie scares me because his belief system is too strong and the excesses may not be regulated by his conscience. His admiration for Cuba was odd. He praised free education and health care, but it is quite obvious he has never talked to a Cuban in Cuba.

Kamala is an opportunist, but also a lightweight. There are other POC women in the Democratic party that are more sincere.

I sort of love the old Biden. I cringe, when he panders, but he is the best of the bunch.

BTW, if Trump does not run I suspect the Reps will throw in DeSantis.

 

[barbar]

Despite my admiration for the sincerity of Bernie I would not vote for him. Bernie scares me because his belief system is too strong and the excesses may not be regulated by his conscience. His admiration for Cuba was odd. He praised free education and health care, but it is quite obvious he has never talked to a Cuban in Cuba.

Kamala is an opportunist, but also a lightweight. There are other POC women in the Democratic party that are more sincere.

I sort of love the old Biden. I cringe, when he panders, but he is the best of the bunch.

BTW, if Trump does not run I suspect the Reps will throw in DeSantis.

Well, I live in a country with free education and health care. If you want to know what it is like feel free to ask me.

 

[Paul]

Well, I live in a country with free education and health care. If you want to know what it is like feel free to ask me.

Free health care is fine as long as it is of good quality. Equal primitive health care for all is not to the goal. Despite all the greatness of Cuban socialism Cubans are better off in Miami. You must live in a wealthy nation.

 

[barbar]

Free health care is fine as long as it is of good quality. Equal primitive health care for all is not to the goal. Despite all the greatness of Cuban socialism Cubans are better off in Miami. You must live in a wealthy nation.

Of course. No one is advocating for primitive health care for all. America is a wealthy nation so I am glad that you agree that it would work well there. There are all the resources there to make the USA health care system the envy of the world. In my experiences there it was like a 3rd world country as far as quality of care and doctors who don't give a shirt about you. Of course it comes with a hefty price tag regardless of the poor quality.

You didn't address education but it's the same deal. There is a phrase "when we all do better we ALL do better." That is very applicable to education . Where I live even the conservatives love the socialized health care and education.

There is no one. Let me repeat it. NO ONE. who is advocating to turn America into Cuba or Venuzuela. That argument doesn't track at all since America has more than enough money to prevent it.

Again. If you want to know how it works and what it is like, just ask. I am happy to explain the good and the bad.

Sorry to derail I am pretty sure that was mostly my fault. And thanks to Paul for the interesting side discussion.

 

[brandon]

Free health care is fine as long as it is of good quality. Equal primitive health care for all is not to the goal.

Seems like intentional obfuscation. There’s no way we end up with “equal primitive healthcare” in the US.

 

[Paul]

Of course. No one is advocating for primitive health care for all. America is a wealthy nation so I am glad that you agree that it would work well there. There are all the resources there to make the USA health care system the envy of the world. In my experiences there it was like a 3rd world country as far as quality of care and doctors who don't give a shirt about you. Of course it comes with a hefty price tag regardless of the poor quality.

It is an interesting question. For example if I was very poor and at the bottom I would want socialism because I have nothing to lose and I am already at the bottom. However, if i was middle class and above I would certainly worry.

I am 100% for free tuition in public universities as long as the education is offered to those that are academically qualified. In America we have a plethora of superficial crapola college degrees that are designed to attract marginal students. These kids borrow money and then cannot find a job. The system was designed to milk the easy to obtain tuition loans available to all. The idea is that all kids could go to college and that is a mistake. In Germany and Japan those that are not college material receive a trade education and that works best because at least there is a job waiting.

You didn't address education but it's the same deal. There is a phrase "when we all do better we ALL do better." That is very applicable to education . Where I live even the conservatives love the socialized health care and education.

Here is the problem with free college: Watch this kid type asking Amy Klobuchar for free college tuition for all. including illegal immigrants, and people in prison. This is way too idealistic.

There is no one. Let me repeat it. NO ONE. who is advocating to turn America into Cuba or Venuzuela. That argument doesn't track at all since America has more than enough money to prevent it.

Again. If you want to know how it works and what it is like, just ask. I am happy to explain the good and the bad.

Sorry to derail I am pretty sure that was mostly my fault. And thanks to Paul for the interesting side discussion.

There are many purists in America that admire Cuba and Venezuela. However, that is another story!
America could easily have Medicare for all and it would be way more cheap. It odes not happen because the donors control Washington. And that includes left leaning Democrats.

 

[brandon]

I am 100% for free tuition in public universities as long as the education is offered to those that are academically qualified. In America we have a plethora of superficial crapola college degrees that are designed to attract marginal students.

Marginal students are all of those people who should be going to community college and either getting their crap together by learning to be a better student or learning a trade. And the free community college Biden is providing allows them not to ruin their lives with debt to do it.

Education is the key to a better life, whether that education is academic or a skill.

Marginal students need a way to get out of poverty, too.