Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[coldseat]

It was much, much different. Trump literally told them to go to the Capitol and fight like hell. They took the hint. Flynn suggested they should do it, but I don't think he was necessarily telling anyone to actually do anything. So no, not the same thing.

What Flynn is doing is the same as what Trump did in the immediate aftermath of the election. It started with suggestions and general threats, until it grew to more direct threats and actions on Jan 6th. It was 2 month build up.

 

[Farb]

These people have proven they're not living in reality. There's no action that goes to far for them.
.

Action they take or actions set against them to stop their rhetoric?

 

[coldseat]

Action they take or actions set against them to stop their rhetoric?

Actions they take.

 

[DaveXA]

What Flynn is doing is the same as what Trump did in the immediate aftermath of the election. It started with suggestions and general threats, until it grew to more direct threats and actions on Jan 6th. It was 2 month build up.

Do you have Flynn building all of that up? Is there more from him I'm missing?

 

[coldseat]

Do you have Flynn building all of that up? Is there more from him I'm missing?

It was more than just Trump that built up the fervor needed for an insurrection. It included the conservative media infrastructure and people like Flynn amplifying Trump's lies and calls for violence. Same thing!

 

[DaveXA]

It was more than just Trump that built up the fervor needed for an insurrection. It included the conservative media infrastructure and people like Flynn amplifying Trump's lies and calls for violence. Same thing!

If it's one incident of him doing it then it's not. But whatever. He's not going to get charged anything over a suggestive comment. Trump should be though, because with him, there clearly was a pattern and he basically incited a riot/insurrection.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if Flynn goes to jail, but I don't think it will be for his comments.

 

[DaveXA]

And right on cue. Trump ain't done yet.

 

[SFIDC3]

People talk about a lot of things. Are we going to police every suggestive comment people make? He was saying he thinks it should happen, but he never states that he thinks it will happen or let's go make it happen. It's a subtle but real difference. What he said was outrageous, but not illegal.

I'm sorry, we disagree here.....Flynn, Trump, Guliani and others have established a pattern of dangerous and violent rhetoric and it has to stop. Openly encouraging a violent coup is not simply "suggestive"....

 

[DaveXA]

I'm sorry, we disagree here.....Flynn, Trump, Guliani and others have established a pattern of dangerous and violent rhetoric and it has to stop. Openly encouraging a violent coup is not simply "suggestive"....

Like I said, outrageous but not illegal.

 

[B4YOU]

And right on cue. Trump ain't done yet.

QAnon and Trump originally said March 4th. Now it’s August. Come September it will be January 20th.

This is the modus operandi of all doomsday cults.

 

[B4YOU]

I'm sorry, we disagree here.....Flynn, Trump, Guliani and others have established a pattern of dangerous and violent rhetoric and it has to stop. Openly encouraging a violent coup is not simply "suggestive"....

I think the difference is Flynn’s words in this setting don’t directly incite imminent lawless action.

This differs from Jan 6. I think everyone who took the stage on Jan 6 (Flynn wasn’t there) should be charged with inciting sedition.

The one part that makes Flynn’s speech more troublesome is his background. A random person spouting off about wanting a military coup is very different than a former Lt. Gen. I’m curious how an inciting sedition case would go against Flynn based the military’s stricter speech standards given he is pensioned military.

 

[Booker]

QAnon and Trump originally said March 4th. Now it’s August. Come September it will be January 20th.

This is the modus operandi of all doomsday cults.

Pretty much...

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.

“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ”

 

[DaveXA]

I think the difference is Flynn’s words in this setting don’t directly incite imminent lawless action.

This differs from Jan 6. I think everyone who took the stage on Jan 6 (Flynn wasn’t there) should be charged with inciting sedition.

The one part that makes Flynn’s speech more troublesome is his background. A random person spouting off about wanting a military coup is very different than a former Lt. Gen. I’m curious how an inciting sedition case would go against Flynn based the military’s stricter speech standards given he is pensioned military.

Indeed, he should be held to a higher standard because of his military background, but whether that actually happens, idk.

 

[Saintamaniac]

QAnon and Trump originally said March 4th. Now it’s August. Come September it will be January 20th.

This is the modus operandi of all doomsday cults.

The difference is that most doomsday cults are not concerned with finances. These people are doing this to continue to milk the gullible and galactically stupid out of their money.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Its gonna be even more epic when Trump loses the 2024 election. His ego will not allow him not to run, and it'll ruin the Republican party (more so than now)

 

[SFIDC3]

Like I said, outrageous but not illegal.

I'm not sure what you are saying....

I think the difference is Flynn’s words in this setting don’t directly incite imminent lawless action.

This differs from Jan 6. I think everyone who took the stage on Jan 6 (Flynn wasn’t there) should be charged with inciting sedition.

The one part that makes Flynn’s speech more troublesome is his background. A random person spouting off about wanting a military coup is very different than a former Lt. Gen. I’m curious how an inciting sedition case would go against Flynn based the military’s stricter speech standards given he is pensioned military.

I think what should be focused on here, is that they are still using this dangerous rhetoric....after directly inciting imminent lawless action that they were not (at least yet) held accountable for.....this is so far beyond the pale....I mean, it's almost like they feel more emboldened now or something....

If they don't do something about this, we are going to have a far worse situation than Jan 6th in the future IMO....

 

[Optimus Prime]

we’ll see what happens moving forward but it seems that most who were there are still proud about being there
=================

Former President Donald Trump’s lies about a stolen 2020 election united right-wing supporters, conspiracy theorists and militants on Jan. 6, but the aftermath of the insurrection is roiling two of the most prominent far-right extremist groups at the U.S. Capitol that day.

More than three dozen members and associates across both the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers have been charged with crimes. Some local chapters cut ties with national leadership in the weeks after the deadly siege.

The Proud Boys’ chairman called for a pause in the rallies that often have led to clashes with anti-fascist activists. And one Oath Keeper has agreed to cooperate against others charged in the riot.

Some extremism experts see parallels between the fallout from the Capitol riot and the schisms that divided far-right figures and groups after their violent clashes with counter-protesters at the “Unite the Right” white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017.

The white supremacist “alt-right” movement fractured and ultimately faded from public view after the violence erupted that weekend.


“I think something kind of like that is happening right now in the broader far-right movement, where the cohesive tissue that brought them all together — being the 2020 election — it’s kind of dissolved,” said Jared Holt, a resident fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab.

“Like ‘Unite the Right,’ there is a huge disaster, a P.R. disaster, and now they’ve got the attention of the feds. And it’s even more intense now because they have the national security apparatus breathing down their necks,” he added.

But others believe President Joe Biden’s victory and the Jan. 6 investigation, the largest federal prosecution in history, might animate the militia movement — fueled by an anti-government anger.........

Charges after US Capitol insurrection roil far-right groups | AP News

Former President Donald Trump’s lies about a stolen 2020 election united right-wing supporters, conspiracy theorists and militants on Jan.

apnews.com

 

[TaylorB]

Indeed, he should be held to a higher standard because of his military background, but whether that actually happens, idk.

I'm no 1A expert, but I think whatever Flynn's background, @B4YOU is correct in saying the Myanmar coup comment doesn't incite "imminent lawless action," and that a better example would be Trump's 1/6 speech where he said to an angry crowd something like "if you don't fight you're not gonna have a country" and the crowd immediately left that speech and committed sedition. Flynn's comments don't seem to meet the "imminence" requirement because the time frame of any lawless action they call for is not really defined.

Flynn is a traitor who deserves prison (as I've said on this board for many months), but he's almost certainly not going to be prosecuted for the Myanmar comments, nor should he be (for that). 1A doesn't appear to prevent the military from punishing Flynn in a non-criminal way -- that's where his military background really matters in all of this.

All that said, if you know anything at all about Michael Flynn, you know he's capable of seriously advocating for a military style coup to install Trump. Flynn envisions -- among other grifts -- making untold millions by being the point person for a massive US / middle east / Russian nuclear deal, something he can most easily accomplish with a corrupt anti-democratic authoritarian in power (all of the non-US countries to the prospective nuclear deal currently have this in common). He's demonstrated a willingness to do whatever is necessary to accomplish that. I have to think he's still on the FBI's radar for that reason. We can't write off the notion of an August / fall coup attempt as a non-serious conspiracy theory. I don't think they're joking at all.