Supreme Court rules prayer led by coach is A-OK (1 Viewer)

[V Chip]

Supreme Court rules for former coach in public school prayer case

Former coach Joseph Kennedy argued that the Bremerton School District in Washington state violated his religious freedom by telling him he couldn’t pray on the field after games.

www.nbcnews.com

Surprised this one wasn’t posted yet; in another precedent-ignoring decision, the SC ruled 6-3 that prayer led by coach after football games is not an establishment or endorsement of religion.

 

[Farb]

.that may be true for you but many on the right want a Christian theocracy and all other religions outlawed. Certainly you recognize that?

Sure there are people out there like that. There are also people that want to live in a communist country and want all religion to be force underground. Do you recognize that?

 

[Farb]

The left is not the right. We are not bigots.

Fixed it for you.

I am considered a bigot on this board and that is that not what I would say as well?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I think you do actually.

It is common, especially on the high school level to 'take a knee' and gather around the head coach before and after a game. Once that happened and he addressed the team, were they forced to stay for prayer? Could a jewish player get up and leave and go do his own thing? That is point. If the muslim and jewish players stay for the prayer, is that not on them, they are free to go? Your point appears to be that this coach deserves his right to free religion to be trampled because someone of another faith or not faith might be offended but at the time is worried about offending the coach who is wanting to pray to his God. Do you not see how circular that logic is?

If you want to pray to the Christian God, you can stay. If you want to pray to Allah or whatever, you are free to leave and pray to your God. Or, you can ask the others to join in on your prayer.

I remember one time when a teammate of mine, had his mother pass away while we were on an away game. He was Muslim ( I think, it was 25 years ago) and he wanted to stay with the team for the game. The coaches lined him up on a flight right after the game but he wanted to stay. Pregame, the coach asked him if he wanted to say anything. We all 'took a knee' and he said some prayer for his mom, obviously a Muslim prayer that I did not understand. Do you know what happened? Everyone bowed out heads and prayed along with him. I say all that to say that it really tends to be only the left that has issue with religion (any religion). The real question is why.

And student-led and student-initiated prayer has never been illegal in this situation.

 

[Farb]

It's not church, it's football. It isn't a Christian football game, it's a public high school game. Do Christians tackle one way and non-Christians another? It's a team. Christianity has no place there except privately. No religion has a place there except privately. How is it you don't get that?

Because I am an American and because I believe in freedom of religion and I am not a communist/socialist and think that religion is a bad force in the world and should be forced underground and into darkness. Sorry.
The hatred the left has for religion is predictable. Those in power don't like the idea of someone holding something above their rules.

 

[Farb]

BS. There have been more laws drafted/passed/enacted by the right targeting specific religions that aren't Christianity than there have been laws by the left targeting *any* religion.

Can you show me those laws? This actual opinion addresses this very thing, so this proves you have not read it the opinion only the media talking points. Don't forget the other talking point, someone, somewhere will die because of this. It will be a blood bath of minority people because Religion or something.

 

[MT15]

Can you show me those laws? This actual opinion addresses this very thing, so this proves you have not read it the opinion only the media talking points. Don't forget the other talking point, someone, somewhere will die because of this. It will be a blood bath of minority people because Religion or something.

You are one sick puppy. You mock the fact that womens’ lives are endangered.

 

[J-DONK]

And student-led and student-initiated prayer has never been illegal in this situation.

That's why the situation reeks of a narcist coach. I played HS football in the 90's, and we always had student led prayer after every game, and practice.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Because I am an American and because I believe in freedom of religion and I am not a communist/socialist and think that religion is a bad force in the world and should be forced underground and into darkness. Sorry.
The hatred the left has for religion is predictable. Those in power don't like the idea of someone holding something above their rules.

You need to go back to school. Start with The Reformation, Calvinism, etc., and then get back to us because the scariest thing is that you truly don't understand.

 

[bdb13]

I think you do actually.

It is common, especially on the high school level to 'take a knee' and gather around the head coach before and after a game. Once that happened and he addressed the team, were they forced to stay for prayer? Could a jewish player get up and leave and go do his own thing? That is point. If the muslim and jewish players stay for the prayer, is that not on them, they are free to go? Your point appears to be that this coach deserves his right to free religion to be trampled because someone of another faith or not faith might be offended but at the time is worried about offending the coach who is wanting to pray to his God. Do you not see how circular that logic is?

If you want to pray to the Christian God, you can stay. If you want to pray to Allah or whatever, you are free to leave and pray to your God. Or, you can ask the others to join in on your prayer.

I remember one time when a teammate of mine, had his mother pass away while we were on an away game. He was Muslim ( I think, it was 25 years ago) and he wanted to stay with the team for the game. The coaches lined him up on a flight right after the game but he wanted to stay. Pregame, the coach asked him if he wanted to say anything. We all 'took a knee' and he said some prayer for his mom, obviously a Muslim prayer that I did not understand. Do you know what happened? Everyone bowed out heads and prayed along with him. I say all that to say that it really tends to be only the left that has issue with religion (any religion). The real question is why.

He was gathering them specifically for the purpose of the prayer and it was not silent and to oneself.

I don't think you've answered me directly but would you be A-OK with me coaching your child's team and during practices and games gathering the team together specifically to tell them "God does not exist"? (And if he/they don't assemble as I wish for my little "there is no God" spiel I'll just run their arses into the ground)

Come on man I don't believe for a second that you wouldn't want my job if your kid was on that team and that's how I was operating. I can't even reconcile that. Wouldn't make sense based upon your posting history.

Which is to say this shirt's then all just a matter of perspective based upon what YOU find to be acceptable or unacceptable rather than being based upon a consistent political ideology.

Like I said the other day (it was actually kind of prophetic, right?), I didn't think this particular court would rule the same as previous courts in regards to things like prayer in school and that was due to the fact that the conservative justices on the Court are very religious and that was a major part of the criteria as to why they were chosen in the first place.

And when one's worldview is filtered through the lens of religion it makes it easy to justify using the political power they possess to tilt the world towards their skewed points of view.

 

[Farb]

Sharia means religious law.

Actually, the term sharia law is redundant.

Got it. So how is freedom of religion, as mentioned in this opinion a religious law?

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/muslims-jews-supreme-court-side-090033436.html

Howard Slugh, Gregory Dolin and Ismail Royer
Mon, June 27, 2022 at 9:24 AM·5 min read


Fouad Zaban is head coach of the Fordson High School football team in Dearborn, Michigan. He's a Muslim, like most of his team. If a player offered him a drink of water during Ramadan, the coach would have to decline. If the student asked why, he would explain that he is fasting because of his faith.
Would this innocent interaction violate the Constitution? Maybe, if the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit is correct. (The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday vindicated the right of religious Americans to participate in public life while maintaining their faith.)
According to the 9th Circuit ruling, any public display of religion by a public school employee within the view of his students at or near school functions is constitutionally suspect. We, as representatives of Muslim and Jewish organizations, hope the Supreme Court rejects the 9th Circuit's restrictive view and vindicates the right of religious Americans to participate in public life while maintaining their faith.

 

[bdb13]

Because I am an American and because I believe in freedom of religion and I am not a communist/socialist and think that religion is a bad force in the world and should be forced underground and into darkness. Sorry.
The hatred the left has for religion is predictable. Those in power don't like the idea of someone holding something above their rules.

I don't think anything should be forced underground. Even in our examples here the players are completely free to gather themselves and conduct a prayer or whatever they choose.

It's when a representative of the government endorses a particular belief system over another that you have the violation of the founders principal of "separation of church and state."

 

[Farb]

This is a lie. There are religions where abortion is explicitly permitted, yet you cheer when it is outlawed. If religious liberty is this important, why do you want to prevent others from practicing their religion?

You really do not retain anything we discuss.

Some religions preform ritual killings, child marriages, arranged marriages, polygamy. So, by your logic, all of those have to allowed if we are to allow full freedom of religion? Can there not be limits enforced by the society on what they, the society, deem extreme? Yes, since the beginning of time. So your point is silly.
I do love when the anti-religion left always tries to argue a point using religion.

 

[Farb]

And student-led and student-initiated prayer has never been illegal in this situation.

Are you absolutely sure that has never been illegal? I feel like it was and the SCOTUS has to make a few ruling. I could be wrong though

 

[bdb13]

Got it. So how is freedom of religion, as mentioned in this opinion a religious law?

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/muslims-jews-supreme-court-side-090033436.html

Howard Slugh, Gregory Dolin and Ismail Royer
Mon, June 27, 2022 at 9:24 AM·5 min read


Fouad Zaban is head coach of the Fordson High School football team in Dearborn, Michigan. He's a Muslim, like most of his team. If a player offered him a drink of water during Ramadan, the coach would have to decline. If the student asked why, he would explain that he is fasting because of his faith.
Would this innocent interaction violate the Constitution? Maybe, if the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit is correct. (The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday vindicated the right of religious Americans to participate in public life while maintaining their faith.)
According to the 9th Circuit ruling, any public display of religion by a public school employee within the view of his students at or near school functions is constitutionally suspect. We, as representatives of Muslim and Jewish organizations, hope the Supreme Court rejects the 9th Circuit's restrictive view and vindicates the right of religious Americans to participate in public life while maintaining their faith.

I would certainly take issue with the "any public display of religion by a public school employee within the view of his students.. is constitutionally suspect" portion.

It's not difficult to look at this stuff with nuance.

 

[Farb]

You are one sick puppy. You mock the fact that womens’ lives are endangered.

From a prayer before a football game? You can't be serious

 

[Farb]

I don't think anything should be forced underground. Even in our examples here the players are completely free to gather themselves and conduct a prayer or whatever they choose.

It's when a representative of the government endorses a particular belief system over another that you have the violation of the founders principal of "separation of church and state."

Again, how is the coach enforcing a belief system?

What if I told that Jefferson actually intended the 'separation of church of state' to actually mean that the state has no power to interfering with the church and not the other way around? His actual words in the letter were 'wall of separation' between the 2 in his explanation on what the 1st Adm meant to a group of Baptists.

 

[bdb13]

You really do not retain anything we discuss.

Some religions preform ritual killings, child marriages, arranged marriages, polygamy. So, by your logic, all of those have to allowed if we are to allow full freedom of religion? Can there not be limits enforced by the society on what they, the society, deem extreme? Yes, since the beginning of time. So your point is silly.
I do love when the anti-religion left always tries to argue a point using religion.

Except that the portion of society that has deemed abortion to be so "extreme" to my knowledge only aligns closely with a portion of society that is deeply Christian. It is not a widely held belief throughout this country that abortion is extreme. Your other examples, like ritual killings and child marriages, are broadly believed to be extreme across the political and religious spectrums throughout this country.

But with abortion you essentially have just the Christians deeming this extreme and writing the rules based upon deeply held religious beliefs even though their views do not align with those of most of the rest of the country and groups and individuals that make it up.

It is a clear case in my view of Christian's pushing for individuals to conform to their personal belief systems, and that shirt is just all kinds of wrong.

 

[bdb13]

Again, how is the coach enforcing a belief system?

What if I told that Jefferson actually intended the 'separation of church of state' to actually mean that the state has no power to interfering with the church and not the other way around? His actual words in the letter were 'wall of separation' between the 2 in his explanation on what the 1st Adm meant to a group of Baptists.

I would say that's a skewed point of view.