Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (2 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[MT15]

It's not the same thing. Not even close. There are laws and amendments that forbid "separate but equal" racial policies.

How that abortion amendment coming along? Any chance of getting it passed this year? Maybe next year.

It’s exactly the same thing. You just refuse to admit it.

 

[Saintamaniac]

There are laws and amendments that forbid "separate but equal" racial policies.

I'm going to use a tried and true method that I've seen from Republicans who think themselves conservatives. There are laws and amendments that forbid murder but it still happens. There are laws that protect civil rights but they still get violated, many times by the people who are charged with protecting them.

 

[bird]

It's not the same thing. Not even close. There are laws and amendments that forbid "separate but equal" racial policies.

How that abortion amendment coming along? Any chance of getting it passed this year? Maybe next year.

It is completely the point. You claimed that local government “almost always more aligned to the wishes of their population than a distant and bloated federal government.” Local/state government was attuned to the needs of the whites to have Jim Crow. It took a bloated, distant federal government to stop Jim Crow.

Other excellent examples of the corrective power of the bloated, distant federal government are the civil rights act and voting rights acts.

Women’s control of their bodies cannot be left to the meth labs of democracy ie state/local governments. It was not, is not and never will be a “states’ rights (which does not exist) issue.

 

[coldseat]

I appreciate that. My point is that opposition to abortion does not need to be based on Christian beliefs and Is not imposing one's religion on other people.

You could say the same thing about just about any other crime. The Bible says murder and theft are wrong, so is opposition to murder and theft imposing one's religious beliefs on other people? No. And neither is abortion.

The problem with this premise is that an overwhelming majority of people that want to ban abortion in the country are Religious Christian Conservatives, like 95%. And even though they wall all deny it, it is because of their religious beliefs that they want to ban abortions. Just listen to the law makers in Indiana that just passed a total abortion ban and tell me it's not about their religious beliefs. So just saying banning abortion is not based on Christian beliefs comes off as the most disingenuous statement ever when you just look and listen to all of the people than want to ban abortion.

 

[CoolBrees]

It does happen sometimes, and more importantly there's a segment on the pro-choice side who thinks we shouldn't even try to regulate that.

So I think there is a need to provide a source for this.

That is a strong statement.

You are saying, not only there is a group of people that think, but also doctors that have performed an abortion at 8 months.

That isn’t true. I am sorry. At 8 months the child is viable and therefore the act would be infanticide. In other words, murder.

If you can find a source for where this occurred, and the doctor was not charged with homicide, I would apologize.

Otherwise slow your roll with such sophomoric and ridiculous comments or you will last here about as long as every other person who come here with this nonsense.

 

[eman623]

The problem with this premise is that an overwhelming majority of people that want to ban abortion in the country are Religious Christian Conservatives, like 95%. And even though they wall all deny it, it is because of their religious beliefs that they want to ban abortions. Just listen to the law makers in Indiana that just passed a total abortion ban and tell me it's not about their religious beliefs. So just saying banning abortion is not based on Christian beliefs comes off as the most disingenuous statement ever when you just look and listen to all of the people than want to ban abortion.

If they deny it, then how do you know what is in their hearts? I've already demonstrated that opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

 

[MT15]

If they deny it, then how do you know what is in their hearts? I've already demonstrated that opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

No you actually haven’t demonstrated it. You have claimed it, but have refused to elaborate when asked what basis other than religion you used to reach your opinion.

(And maybe someone else can make this point to him since he has very publicly put me on ignore, lol).

 

[coldseat]

If they deny it, then how do you know what is in their hearts? I've already demonstrated that opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

Because why else would they care what happens to a clump of cells in another woman's body that they have no attachment or responsibility too or even knowledge off? If it wasn't because of religion, people would mind their own business on abortion.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

If they deny it, then how do you know what is in their hearts? I've already demonstrated that opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

Maybe I missed it, but you didn't deny it. You just stated it.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

...opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

It doesn't. But it invariably is.

 

[Farb]

The number of teenagers is small that get breast reduction surgery. Sometimes it doesn’t even have anything to do with being trans. It’s a legitimate surgery that is done for various reasons under a physician’s care and with parental consent.

You’re still wrong about CRT, and I will bet you cannot even define it without looking it up and pasting the definition here. Gender theory is the same. Acknowledging that trans people exist isn’t teaching gender theory. Good lord, how many times Farb, how many times do you say the same incorrect crap? It’s so frustrating.

You ignored my questions - what would you do with parents, doctors and teens that have decided on a course of treatment for a condition that the teen suffers from? Are you willing to step in between the parents and doctors and the teen to dictate to them what treatment they can and cannot receive?

I am confused. You said teen girls getting their breast removed did not happen. I was falling for disinformation from right wing sites. Now you admit they do but only because they are medically necessary.
Who said trans people don't exist?

Are you saying CRT is not taught in schools? Do you think gender theory is happening in our schools?

As for your question, yes, I will step in between anyone who is harming a child. The parents should be investigated, the doctors should lose the license to practice medicine. Remember, the concetration camps in Nazi germany had doctors as well.

Question, do you think the founder of gender theory, Money, should have been stopped during or hopefully before is evil and perverted 'experiment' on Reimer and his twin?
https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-...gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

During the twin’s psychiatric visits with Money, and as part of his research, Reimer and his twin brother were directed to inspect one another’s genitals and engage in behavior resembling sexual intercourse. Reimer claimed that much of Money’s treatment involved the forced reenactment of sexual positions and motions with his brother. In some exercises, the brothers rehearsed missionary positions with thrusting motions, which Money justified as the rehearsal of healthy childhood sexual exploration. In his Rolling Stone interview, Reimer recalled that at least once, Money photographed those exercises. Money also made the brothers inspect one another’s pubic areas. Reimer stated that Money observed those exercises both alone and with as many as six colleagues. Reimer recounted anger and verbal abuse from Money if he or his brother resisted orders, in contrast to the calm and scientific demeanor Money presented to their parents. Reimer and his brother underwent Money’s treatments at preschool and grade school age. Money described Reimer’s transition as successful, and claimed that Reimer’s girlish behavior stood in stark contrast to his brother’s boyishness. Money reported on Reimer’s case as the John/Joan case, leaving out Reimer’s real name. For over a decade, Reimer and his brother unknowingly provided data that, according to biographers and the Intersex Society of North America, was used to reinforce Money’s theories on gender fluidity and provided justification for thousands of sex reassignment surgeries for children with abnormal genitals.


Spoiler- both twins committed suicide because the adults around them completely and utterly failed them.
Let me guess, more right wing propaganda?

 

[Farb]

I think this is going to continue to be a focal point - business and academia’s ability to recruit in states with such laws.

At least they are honest now. Helping you kill your baby saves us so much more money on maternity leave and future insurance! But, it is capitalism at its finest.

 

[Farb]

Aha, yes the old Staaaaaaaaatesss Riggggghhhhhhhhhhhhtts argument. The right has used this ideological canard since before the Civil War to trample human and civil rights. Don't even entertain this silly argument, it doesn't hold any water whatsoever. It's similar to the "smaller gov't" refrain.

No worries, though right-wing politicians will still have the money to pay for abortions for their wives, girlfriends, or mistresses in states where it's still legal.

States rights lol.

Yes the old tired argument for federalism.

 

[Farb]

So I think there is a need to provide a source for this.

That is a strong statement.

You are saying, not only there is a group of people that think, but also doctors that have performed an abortion at 8 months.

That isn’t true. I am sorry. At 8 months the child is viable and therefore the act would be infanticide. In other words, murder.

If you can find a source for where this occurred, and the doctor was not charged with homicide, I would apologize.

Otherwise slow your roll with such sophomoric and ridiculous comments or you will last here about as long as every other person who come here with this nonsense.

What about 7 months?

 

[MT15]

I am confused. You said teen girls getting their breast removed did not happen. I was falling for disinformation from right wing sites. Now you admit they do but only because they are medically necessary.
Who said trans people don't exist?

Are you saying CRT is not taught in schools? Do you think gender theory is happening in our schools?

As for your question, yes, I will step in between anyone who is harming a child. The parents should be investigated, the doctors should lose the license to practice medicine. Remember, the concetration camps in Nazi germany had doctors as well.

Question, do you think the founder of gender theory, Money, should have been stopped during or hopefully before is evil and perverted 'experiment' on Reimer and his twin?
https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-...gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

During the twin’s psychiatric visits with Money, and as part of his research, Reimer and his twin brother were directed to inspect one another’s genitals and engage in behavior resembling sexual intercourse. Reimer claimed that much of Money’s treatment involved the forced reenactment of sexual positions and motions with his brother. In some exercises, the brothers rehearsed missionary positions with thrusting motions, which Money justified as the rehearsal of healthy childhood sexual exploration. In his Rolling Stone interview, Reimer recalled that at least once, Money photographed those exercises. Money also made the brothers inspect one another’s pubic areas. Reimer stated that Money observed those exercises both alone and with as many as six colleagues. Reimer recounted anger and verbal abuse from Money if he or his brother resisted orders, in contrast to the calm and scientific demeanor Money presented to their parents. Reimer and his brother underwent Money’s treatments at preschool and grade school age. Money described Reimer’s transition as successful, and claimed that Reimer’s girlish behavior stood in stark contrast to his brother’s boyishness. Money reported on Reimer’s case as the John/Joan case, leaving out Reimer’s real name. For over a decade, Reimer and his brother unknowingly provided data that, according to biographers and the Intersex Society of North America, was used to reinforce Money’s theories on gender fluidity and provided justification for thousands of sex reassignment surgeries for children with abnormal genitals.


Spoiler- both twins committed suicide because the adults around them completely and utterly failed them.
Let me guess, more right wing propaganda?

We’ve talked about this case before. it doesn’t have anything to do with being trans. Money had some things wrong - and some of his work has been discredited. And guess what, it was discredited by other researchers into the subject.

But, and this can’t be stressed enough - this case doesn’t have anything to do with anyone being trans. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[SystemShock]

If they deny it, then how do you know what is in their hearts? I've already demonstrated that opposition to abortion doesn't need to be based in religion.

It may be, but in the U.S., it is definitely based on religion. To say otherwise is disingenuous at best.

 

[RebSaint]

Yes the old tired argument for federalism.

No, I don't think so. Federalism was part of the system of representative government the framers established that simply outlined the sharing of power between federal, state, and local authorities.

Doctrinaire states' rights ideology is not about federalism, nor is it about states' rights, but the issue that is being debated within the context of those ideological debates.

My only point was that defenders of slavery, institutional racism, etc. have often referenced "states rights" when in fact, the debate is not about states rights at all.

 

[MT15]

We’ve talked about this case before. it doesn’t have anything to do with being trans. Money had some things wrong - and some of his work has been discredited. And guess what, it was discredited by other researchers into the subject.

But, and this can’t be stressed enough - this case doesn’t have anything to do with anyone being trans. Quite the opposite, actually.

Not only that, but you are willing to just throw away an entire field of study because one man was warped, and did something terrible. Yet, you don’t seem to have the urge to get rid of the Catholic Church after decades of ignoring and enabling pedophilia. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

You are a complete caricature.