Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (4 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[eman623]

Nobody is aborting viable babies. Nobody. So what’s your point?

Uh, how do you know which babies are viable in a hypothetical situation?

 

[eman623]

That's a rather juvenile take on what happened because it's not what happened at all.

Just like for the last 60+ years or so with regard to vaccinations, they were REQUIRED to attend school. This cry from the right with regard to vaccinations was nothing more than a political stunt they used to help kill of some of their supporters and rally their base, which tends to be severely uneducated and susceptible to nonsense that could actually harm them. Your parents didn't cry about bodily autonomy when you were vaccinated. You didn't cry about it when you had your kids vaccinated (if you have any) and your kids didn't cry about it with your grandkids (if you have any).

Telling someone they can't enter a store because they refuse to wear a mask is not the same as forcing a 10 year old child to carry their rapist's baby. That's the comparison you are making with the bodily autonomy nonsense from the right.

Biden's illegal and dictatorial executive order didn't apply to kids. It applied to grown adult citizens who were not employed in the medical profession. That's new, and was declared unconstitutional. I don't know why people can't seem to understand that distinction.

But even if we stipulate that a vaccine mandate is needed because it could affect other people's lives, then if people believe an abortion also affects other people's lives (ie the fetus), then a ban would be logically consistent. I get that not everyone does believe this, and that's the heart of the matter. Who does get to decide?

Ultimately the people decide these things, and should decide, either by direct democracy as in Kansas, or through their elected legislators. That's the system and while it's messy it tends to get the best outcomes over enough time.

 

[Farb]

Proper use of P.P.E. prevents transmission. Vaccines can prevent transmission as well, but its main purpose has always been to minimize the severity of the disease, reduce hospital admission and save lives. In that, the vaccines have been overwhelmingly successful for those that have taken it.

Really, that is what they said from the beginning? Not to stop transmission. If everyone got the jab, no more covid, remember. Joe even said as much.
https://news.yahoo.com/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-011843623.html

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

 

[coldseat]

Really, that is what they said from the beginning? Not to stop transmission. If everyone got the jab, no more covid, remember. Joe even said as much.
https://news.yahoo.com/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-011843623.html

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

OMG, Joe said something inaccurate during a townhall.

Joe is not an epidemiologist, the CDC, your local health director or even a doctor.

 

[Farb]

They’re all relevant. And no, the president didn’t force anyone to get a vaccine or lose their careers, with the possible exception of the military, which forces a lot of people to do a lot of things. It’s kinda the whole point of the military.

Even the company I worked for, a hospital on the front lines of the pandemic, offered a weekly testing option. So you lose a lot of credibility when you say this kind of drivel.

Can you think of another position/job in this country that the President has direct hire/fire over besides the military and his cabinet/branch?
What he did do was try and shoe horn in the requirement via a bureaucratic mandate that was not held up by the other branches in our checks and balances. Why did he try that, strictly political, so in effect, he did force people to lose their jobs because they didn't think the vaccine was needed on a personal level.
During the Pandemic:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/pilot-biden-vaccine-mandate-southwest-we-have-all-control

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/north-carolina-airport-pilot-protest-biden-vaccine-mandate

https://www.businessinsider.com/pil...an-southwest-union-labor-shortage-2021-9?op=1

Consequences of his own actions:

https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-ba...-vaccine-mandate-at-root-of-airline-problems/

 

[Farb]

OMG, Joe said something inaccurate during a townhall.

Joe is not an epidemiologist, the CDC, your local health director or even a doctor.

Well, all of those you listed, minus my personal doctor I trust about as much as Hunter Biden, as do most Americans. Just add in the FBI and you have a posterboard of all that is wrong with this country.

 

[eman623]

Strawman much. I specifically stated healthcare workers, not all citizens.

Biden's EO would have applied to people who were not healthcare workers.

 

[MT15]

Uh, how do you know which babies are viable in a hypothetical situation?

I know that isn’t done in America. I guess you can just make stuff up if you want, but as you say - it’s not relevant.

 

[coldseat]

Biden's EO would have applied to people who were not healthcare workers.

To whom would the EO you are referring to have applied and under what circumstances?

 

[MT15]

Can you think of another position/job in this country that the President has direct hire/fire over besides the military and his cabinet/branch?
What he did do was try and shoe horn in the requirement via a bureaucratic mandate that was not held up by the other branches in our checks and balances. Why did he try that, strictly political, so in effect, he did force people to lose their jobs because they didn't think the vaccine was needed on a personal level.
During the Pandemic:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/pilot-biden-vaccine-mandate-southwest-we-have-all-control

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/north-carolina-airport-pilot-protest-biden-vaccine-mandate

https://www.businessinsider.com/pil...an-southwest-union-labor-shortage-2021-9?op=1

Consequences of his own actions:

https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-ba...-vaccine-mandate-at-root-of-airline-problems/

There was always a testing option. Always. And religious exemptions. I know you like to play the victim, but you weren’t victimized here.

 

[Farb]

I know that isn’t done in America. I guess you can just make stuff up if you want, but as you say - it’s not relevant.

Well, lets be fair. You were also adamant that no one was removing breasts from healthy young women because of the trans movement and now you know they are.
You also claimed CRT was never taught in the classrooms and I was a conspiracy nut. Now we know they are.
You also claimed that gender theory is not being taught in schools but it turns out that my conspiracy was correct after all.

Now, the arguments are that 'well, everyone is happier and there are 'experts' that are making the decisions along with the minor'. Except you seem to over look the part that the 'experts' you listen to in the beginning of all this have lied to you in the about these very things and you believed them and you are just as willing to believe them again. Kind of mind boggling if you ask me.

But at least you just are not going around calling people liar all the time, so progress is welcome.

 

[Farb]

There was always a testing option. Always. And religious exemptions. I know you like to play the victim, but you weren’t victimized here.

If there was transmission with the vaccine, why did the testing only apply to the unvaccinated? Seem pretty political to me.

Did the military have the testing option, nope. So not always.

 

[eman623]

I know that isn’t done in America. I guess you can just make stuff up if you want, but as you say - it’s not relevant.

It's relevant to the room full of 100 pregnant hypothetical women. To people in the real world, not so much.

Sorry, that's 100 pregnant hypothetical birthing people. No simple answers.

 

[eman623]

To whom would the EO you are referring to have applied and under what circumstances?

Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers​

The administration said the new mandates could affect around 100 million people, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers

The administration said the new mandates could affect around 100 million people, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[coldseat]

Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers​

The administration said the new mandates could affect around 100 million people, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers

The administration said the new mandates could affect around 100 million people, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

www.nbcnews.com

All you have to do is read the first paragraph and it destroys your whole point. Thanks for providing the proof.

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden on Thursday issued two executive orders mandating vaccines for federal workers and contractors and announced new requirements for large employers and health care providers that he said would affect around 100 million workers, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

 

[MT15]

If there was transmission with the vaccine, why did the testing only apply to the unvaccinated? Seem pretty political to me.

Did the military have the testing option, nope. So not always.

We stated the military was the exception, so yeah. And that’s the way the military has always been, since the days of George Washington.

The testing only applied to the unvaccinated at first because it was before all the new variants. So, at first there was no transmission among the vaccinated. It wasn’t political at all, just you being conspiracy oriented. Lol.

 

[Saintamaniac]

But even if we stipulate that a vaccine mandate is needed because it could affect other people's lives, then if people believe an abortion also affects other people's lives (ie the fetus), then a ban would be logically consistent. I get that not everyone does believe this, and that's the heart of the matter. Who does get to decide?

The distinction between those two is this. The belief that life begins at conception is a religious belief and not rooted in science at all. Jews believe that life begins at birth. So for people of Jewish faith, a fetus is just that; a fetus. It's not a life, it's not a person, it's a collection of cells that have the potential to become a life with it's hosts help. Your argument falls apart right there. Do Christian beliefs supersede Jewish beliefs? No they don't....not unless you have people on the supreme court who don't honor the oaths they took. I don't think you do get that not everyone believes that because if you did, you wouldn't be making the argument.

 

[eman623]

The distinction between those two is this. The belief that life begins at conception is a religious belief and not rooted in science at all. Jews believe that life begins at birth. So for people of Jewish faith, a fetus is just that; a fetus. It's not a life, it's not a person, it's a collection of cells that have the potential to become a life with it's hosts help. Your argument falls apart right there. Do Christian beliefs supersede Jewish beliefs? No they don't....not unless you have people on the supreme court who don't honor the oaths they took. I don't think you do get that not everyone believes that because if you did, you wouldn't be making the argument.

You are trying to pigeonhole me into some convenient box, but I'm not a square peg for you to fit into some round hole.

I'm not a Christian yet I think late term abortions are wrong. The fetus is too close to moral personhood. A newly fertilized zygote is not a person IMO, but an 8 month fetus is more than just a collection of cells, again IMO. A person's life is at stake and we need to weigh the competing interests of the mom and the baby.

But this is not about what I think, or you think, or any one person thinks. These decisions are going to be made collectively, either at the ballot box like Kansas, or in the legislature. I'm fine with however people decide.