Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (1 Viewer)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[MT15]

The pope is against nations codifying religious beliefs into laws. He says God has given all of us “free will”

God does not want 'a world governed by religious laws,' pope tells Canadian clergy

(RNS) – To overcome secularism and past failures, Pope Francis called on Canadian clergy to embrace the journey toward healing and reconciliation.

religionnews.com

“In a homily on Thursday (July 28) for clergy and church members gathered at the Cathedral of Notre Dame, the pope also criticized those who would impose the church’s beliefs on the public square.

“God does not want us to be slaves, but sons and daughters,” Francis said. “He does not want to make decisions for us, or oppress us with a sacral power, exercised in a world governed by religious laws. No! He created us to be free, and he asks us to be mature and responsible persons in life and in society.””

 

[MT15]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/p...-despite-rx-not-approved-for-covid/ar-AAPUw5m

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...ll-prescription-for-covid-19-patient/2263662/

Those are decisions based on strong medical evidence - not the pharmacists personal religious beliefs. What don’t you get about this?

 

[MT15]

When did the left become such a huge fan of big government.

more complete gaslighting. You, especially, don’t get to say a damn word about big government. Not one damn word. Not one.

 

[zztop]

now they are coming after the doctors

An Indiana Doctor Speaks Out on Abortion, and Pays a Price

Dr. Caitlin Bernard, who provided an abortion to a 10-year-old, says doctors shouldn’t be silent. But she finds herself at the center of a post-Roe clash shaking the medical community.

www.nytimes.com

Threats against abortion providers are hardly new. But the overturning of Roe has created a frightening new legal landscape for doctors.

In conservative states like Indiana, where abortion access is restricted, they face mounting legal requirements that, if not followed, could jeopardize their licenses or land them in jail. A wave of new abortion bans and restrictions across the nation call for hefty prison terms and fines against doctors who provide abortions.

In Indiana, Todd Rokita, the attorney general, is investigating whether Bernard, an assistant professor of clinical obstetrics and gynecology at the Indiana University School of Medicine, reported the Ohio girl’s abortion to Indiana state officials, as required. Records show she did.

In a statement to The Times on Tuesday, the attorney general said he would “see this duty through to the very end,” and accused Bernard of using “a 10-year-old rape victim’s personal trauma” to “push her ideological stance.”

 

[GrandAdmiral]

The pope is against nations codifying religious beliefs into laws. He says God has given all of us “free will”

Wait a minute. Where did I see that before?

 

[MT15]

Wait a minute. Where did I see that before?

From a Catholic perspective, will this move the needle? Isn’t the pope infallible? Shouldn’t faithful Catholics quit supporting laws banning abortion?

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Optimus Prime]

No health-care provider or researcher on maternal health would ever use the term “pro-life” in reference to the forced-birth movement. We know with great certainty that abortion bans present a serious threat to the lives of women.


Indeed, a 2012 study calculated that the risk of death from pregnancy is 14 times that of abortions, which are exceptionally safe thanks to advances in medicine.

We also know the risk of death from pregnancy is also three to four times greater for Black women, because of higher rates of poor health and poverty, more limited access to health care and discrimination by health-care providers.


The Texas Tribune recently reported that “[because] of high chronic stress and race-based trauma and fear, the majority of Black women produce about 15% more cortisol, a stress hormone, than white women, which in turn raises the risk of pregnancy complications, according to the National Library of Medicine.”

Among the Black women who want an abortion but are forced to give birth, the Tribune reports, many “will be left permanently disabled or sick long enough that they will lose their jobs, which will make caring for their families much more difficult.”

For Black families in which a woman is the only source of income, the “ripple” effect of a forced birth, both on her family and the greater community, can be profound.

Amanda Stevenson, an assistant sociology professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder and a leading researcher on abortion bans, projected in a study published last year, based on 2017 data, that if the United States had a nationwide abortion ban, there would be a 21 percent increase in pregnancy-related deaths.

Deaths among non-Hispanic Black people would increase 33 percent. In fact, Stevenson shared with me a pre-print version of an update to that study with 2020 data, which shows even worse numbers: A national ban would result in a 24 percent increase in deaths for all women and a 39 percent for non-Hispanic Black women…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/27/science-is-clear-abortion-ban-forced-birth-laws-will-kill-more-women/

 

[Optimus Prime]

On of the Comments from the above article

I wish there was a link to the article mentioned

I hadn’t heard this angle before
=========================

There was an article describing research that helps explain the rationale for anti abortion sentiments, which explains why many women are also antiabortion and why the self-proclaimed pro-life crowd also oppose contraceptives but their pro-life views do not extend to opposition to the death penalty.

The argument was that this group views abortion and contraception abetting sexual promiscuity and infidelity. Taking away abortion and contraception maximizes the risks and costs of sex outside marital or other committed relationships for both the man and the woman.

The article suggests its related to reproductive strategy.

When women get married and decide to have children, they are heavily invested in and reliant on their partner being loyal and being able to dedicate resources for the child, particularly when pregnancy and child care interrupt careers and ability to be self sufficient.

Thus, it is to this group's advantage to regulate the sexual activity of other women and their husbands to avoid sexual relationships that distract men from their duty to wives and potentially dilute resources available to their own children.

One way to keep other women from hitting on your man, or your man to think twice about straying, is to take away means of hiding pregnancies that result from sexual promiscuity, i.e. abortion and contraception.

I think many people believe that over time, as the consequences of sexual promiscuity are harder to avoid and hide, sexual promiscuity will decline and women wanting to have children can do so more secure that infidelity will interfere with the raising of their own children.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Interesting poll results
=================
Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the end of Roe v. Wade represents a “major loss of rights” for women, a Washington Post-Schar School poll finds, but those who support abortion access are less certain they will vote this fall — a sign of the challenges facing Democrats who hope the issue will motivate their base in the midterms.

Fully 58 percent of the country supports a federal law establishing the right to an abortion before a fetus can survive outside the womb, the standard the Supreme Court enshrined for nearly 50 years and overturned last month.

And almost a third of Americans say abortion will be one of the “single most important” issues shaping their midterm vote. That’s less than the 39 percent calling rising prices a top issue but higher than the 23 percent citing crime and 20 percent citing immigration.

Abortion’s importance as a voting issue has increased from three years ago, when a Post-ABC poll found 14 percent saying it was one of the top factors in their presidential vote……


Democrats and women, especially younger women, are particularly uncertain they will vote. About 1 in 3 women under 40 are sure they will cast a ballot even as they have strong concerns about rollbacks in abortion access.


“Is the discontent with Democratic Party leadership and policies generally so deep that those most affected by the court decision … still plan to sit out this election?” said Mark Rozell, dean of the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University, who worked on the poll. “I struggle to wrap my head around this disconnect.”…….

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

 

[MT15]

We have seen this illustrated very clearly in this very thread. Our staunchly anti-abortion member has frequently said that he wishes to hold women accountable for having sex, and forcing them to carry pregnancies to term is his method to “hold them accountable”. If they die, that’s just a consequence of their actions (having sex) he has said exactly that.

When I have said before that this whole issue isn’t about the loss of potential life of an embryo or fetus, but rather about controlling women, this is what is meant.

Throughout human history men have been able to control women by using their vulnerability due to pregnancy and child rearing. Once women can control whether they have children or not, that dominance evaporates. They cannot allow that.

So, even if it means that 9 or 10 year olds will have to sacrifice their bodies to carry a baby to term, or if it means that some women will die because their medical conditions will not be treated in a timely manner, that’s just the price that must be paid to keep control over women in general. To maintain their upper hand.

On of the Comments from the above article

I wish there was a link to the article mentioned

I hadn’t heard this angle before
=========================

 

[MT15]

 

[GrandAdmiral]

From a Catholic perspective, will this move the needle? Isn’t the pope infallible? Shouldn’t faithful Catholics quit supporting laws banning abortion?

Move the needle? Please. The USCCB ignore stuff from the Vatican on a regular basis. Some have openly called for Francis to be charged with heresy.

 

[MT15]

Move the needle? Please. The USCCB ignore stuff from the Vatican on a regular basis. Some have openly called for Francis to be charged with heresy.

So, the pope is only relevant when he says what they want him to say? Actually that completely tracks with the right wing in this country, which has captured the churches, evidently.

see this, how anti-abortionists are denying that women are being put in danger. And lying about what happens in catholic hospitals. Working in hospitals my whole career, both catholic and not, I know that women have been denied essential miscarriage care in catholic hospitals for years. They would just transfer the patients to another hospital. Well, now they cannot do that and women will die who don’t need to die.

Opinion | The Anti-Abortion Movement Is in Denial

It can’t defend the world it has made.

www.nytimes.com

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So, the pope is only relevant when he says what they want him to say? Actually that completely tracks with the right wing in this country, which has captured the churches, evidently.

see this, how anti-abortionists are denying that women are being put in danger. And lying about what happens in catholic hospitals. Working in hospitals my whole career, both catholic and not, I know that women have been denied essential miscarriage care in catholic hospitals for years. They would just transfer the patients to another hospital. Well, now they cannot do that and women will die who don’t need to die.

Opinion | The Anti-Abortion Movement Is in Denial

It can’t defend the world it has made.

www.nytimes.com

Hell, there was this story from a few years ago (in California I think) of a nun who was up for excommunication because she voted to allow a provider to perform an abortion on a mother who was on the brink of death.

In South America (can't remember which nation), a 10-year old was raped and became pregnant. Her parents agreed to allow an abortion because she was so frail and would not have survived the pregnancy to term.

The girl's parents were excommunicated (can't remember if the child was as well). The rapist was granted forgiveness by the Church through Confession.

 

[Farb]

Sure, and they should fill a prescription for draino when you have a cough?

Get serious. This is completely different than some nut job not filling a prescription because of their religious beliefs.

Do you know any doctors that will perscribe draino? If you do, find a new doctor.

You just said originally this did not happen, but now that you see it, you just dismiss it. Typical. And, that is exactly what that guy was doing, refusing to fill an RX due to his 'religious' belief based on the media coverage of Rogan and Trump.
It is not like the medical community has lied to us before or been caught up in a religious movement that was against their Hippocratic oath.

 

[Farb]

You didn't say anything about the government owing you an explanation. You said:



You were speaking about what you should and should not allow to happen. Once the money is paid to someone else, it is not yours and you don't have a say as to what happens at that point. If you don't like how it is spent, you can stop going to Burker King just as you can work to elect politicians that you deem better at spending tax revenue.

I do have a say. My say just ended federal abortion. My vote was my 'say'. See how that works. Politicians chose to spend my money, that I was forced to give them, on something I am morally against. I voted for politicians to to cancel out their vote and you can see the fruits of it now.
It is almost how a federal democracy was designed to work.

 

[Farb]

I can't remember if you are Jewish or Christian because if I recall correctly, that Guy whose teachings you folks don't follow at all said that "He had not come to overturn God's laws but to make sure that they are upheld" He then proceeded to give a set of new guide stones for his followers to live by...namely the 8 beatitudes. I don't really expect you to know them as you're pretty content violating most of them on a daily basis. Then again, you're pretty skilled at violating the commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness" in every conversation you have here.

Also, those tax dollars of yours that you are concerned about being used to kill, yeah, well every missile, bullet or rocket that our military uses daily were paid for in part with YOUR tax dollars. So you don't have a problem with our government using your tax dollars to kill. You have a problem with our government using your tax dollars to help save the lives of women. It's such a misogynistic attitude you have toward women. Where does that come from?

I love being lectured by an atheist on my religious beliefs. Do you think 'Gods law' includes killing babies because the mother wants to attend college?
You seem to be getting the commandments and beatitudes confused and you seemed to ignore a few that I personally like. For example, the one about righteousness, those that mourn and those that are pure in heart. Give those a gander.
Do you actually compare a bullet killing a terrorist or a criminal to the killing of a defenseless child in a womb? I think you think you made a point there, I guess you did, but just not the one you think you did. You actually showed how warped you are by comparing warfare to the killing of an innocent life.
So you will have to pardon me when you attempt to lecture on moral grounds in the future and I just dismiss it out of hand.