Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (1 Viewer)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[Farb]

so I went to your link and checked out that Dr’s site.

I couldn’t find the link to the actual FAQ, or the page through your link - I had to get it on my own.

While I could not find that question in their FAQ or the answer you provided, even your “evidence” is ridiculous.

The FAQ you “found” STILL says:

“ We will need consent from both parents (unless only one parent has been awarded legal custody), as well as two letters from mental health professionals who can speak to your gender identity and transition. Dr. Mosser will also speak with your therapist via phone prior to your surgical procedure, in order for everyone on your healthcare team to be as interconnected and communicating as possible.”

So the teen (not child) needs to have been living their true self for YEARS under the supervision of: parents, doctors and therapists.

On top of that mountain to climb - your link is only for top surgery; not gender reassignment surgery. Meaning addition or subtraction of breasts. Not genitalia.


Cmon, Farb, you aren’t even trying

In your opinion, chopping healthy breasts off of a teen girl is not a big deal at all. What a 16 year old wanting a breast enlargement procedure. You think people would think that is a good idea?

 

[MT15]

In your opinion, chopping healthy breasts off of a teen girl is not a big deal at all. What a 16 year old wanting a breast enlargement procedure. You think people would think that is a good idea?

Whether they think it’s a good idea or not - all it takes is consent (parents & teen) and they can do it. Why do you want to insert yourself between parents, children and doctors?

You sure don’t want anyone telling you what to do or how to live. But you’re pretty big on telling other people what they can do. Just an observation here.

Nobody has to agree with a decision made by parents, their children and their doctors. It’s not anybody else’s business.

You can never say you’re a libertarian again.

 

[CoolBrees]

In your opinion, chopping healthy breasts off of a teen girl is not a big deal at all. What a 16 year old wanting a breast enlargement procedure. You think people would think that is a good idea?

If that teen girl is gender transitioning, and has gone through years of support and therapy, their family, doctor, and TWO clinical psychologists think it is ok; who the eff are you to say they are wrong!?!

Mighty high opinion of your opinion you have.

And for the breast augmentation question- I went to high school with a girl that got a breast reduction. As a Junior. Why would you restrict that?

What is it about self determination that makes you despise it so much?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

You have to prove the common sense part as well as prove that they would indeed save lives.

We know that preventing access to certain types of guns reduces mass gun violence. It's proven effective in other countries and while the comparisons may not be 100% perfect, they are close enough to show that it can work.

 

[Farb]

Whether they think it’s a good idea or not - all it takes is consent (parents & teen) and they can do it. Why do you want to insert yourself between parents, children and doctors?

You sure don’t want anyone telling you what to do or how to live. But you’re pretty big on telling other people what they can do. Just an observation here.

Nobody has to agree with a decision made by parents, their children and their doctors. It’s not anybody else’s business.

You can never say you’re a libertarian again.

So anything parents agree too is no one else business? What about child prostitution set up by a parent? What about selling of a child by a parent?
There are multiple examples of the society coming between a what a parent and teen wants to do.

So, if a parent wants to get a 12 year old a boob job because she wants to be a stripper, it should be fine? Sounds crazy right? Just replace 'stripper' with boy and it doesn't sound crazy to you does it? Odd.

 

[Farb]

We know that preventing access to certain types of guns reduces mass gun violence. It's proven effective in other countries and while the comparisons may not be 100% perfect, they are close enough to show that it can work.

Can you show me that how we know that? Because if I remember right, the last AR ban was not reinstituted because it showed no difference one way or the other. So, if you say it has been proven, show me the data from the study. Not from another country, show me the data from the previous assault gun ban.

 

[Farb]

If that teen girl is gender transitioning, and has gone through years of support and therapy, their family, doctor, and TWO clinical psychologists think it is ok; who the eff are you to say they are wrong!?!

Mighty high opinion of your opinion you have.

And for the breast augmentation question- I went to high school with a girl that got a breast reduction. As a Junior. Why would you restrict that?

What is it about self determination that makes you despise it so much?

Self determination with no self accountability. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

What is your opinion on body integrity disorder? Should those body altering surgeries also be allowed and accepted?

 

[MT15]

Admit it, Farb. You want to rule everyone by your own biases. You want a theocracy according to your standards and to hell with everyone else.

Your examples are ridiculously extreme, reminiscent of the stupid arguments that if same sex marriage were legalized, we’d have men marrying toasters or horses or some such stupidity.

When parents and doctors, including psychologists and counselors are dealing with a teen who is at danger of suicide, real danger, and they determine that a procedure will help, I am not going to pretend I know more than the people who love that teen and the professionals who do this for a living. You’re more than happy to tell them what they can and cannot do. That’s the difference.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What if the consent is done after the child has been put on experimental drugs or had healthy breast chopped off. Yes, they are experimental. If you don't think, provide the study that shows long term side effects? How about 10 years after?
Also, why is much of Europe, pulling back on the use of puberty blockers? Sweden for example:
https://segm.org/sites/default/files/Karolinska _Policy_Statement_English.pdf

You realize that the policy change you linked was based on a court case regarding informed consent by a minor, right? And that the lack of long-term data and potential side effects are common knowledge in the medical community, which is why something like this requires a team of doctors, including psychologists, to make the determination correctly? And that it's decided on a case-by-case basis and isn't a blanket treatment?

 

[MT15]

Can you show me that how we know that? Because if I remember right, the last AR ban was not reinstituted because it showed no difference one way or the other. So, if you say it has been proven, show me the data from the study. Not from another country, show me the data from the previous assault gun ban.

It’s easy to find it - it’s been posted already on this board if I remember correctly. You’re absolutely wrong about there not being a difference. You didn’t pay attention when I posted it before, so why should I do an errand for you this time just to prove something you ignored already?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Can you show me that how we know that? Because if I remember right, the last AR ban was not reinstituted because it showed no difference one way or the other. So, if you say it has been proven, show me the data from the study. Not from another country, show me the data from the previous assault gun ban.

"These results indicate that fatalities due to mass shootings were lower during both the federal and state assault weapons ban periods."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939348_The_impact_of_state_and_federal_assault_weapons_bans_on_public_mass_shootings

"Mass-shooting related homicides in the United States were reduced during the years of the federal assault weapons ban of 1994 to 2004."

Changes in US mass shooting deaths associated with the... : Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery

expired in 2004. The period from 1994 to 2004 serves as a single-arm pre-post observational study to assess the effectiveness of this policy intervention. METHODS Mass shooting data for 1981 to 2017 were obtained from three well-documented, referenced, and open-source sets of data, based on...

journals.lww.com

 

[CoolBrees]

Self determination with no self accountability. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

What is your opinion on body integrity disorder? Should those body altering surgeries also be allowed and accepted?

Dude this is a reach even for you.

I had to look up what BIID was since I had never heard of it.

For those who are reading this and have no clue what our fun Buddy Farb is talking about, Body Identity integrity Disorder is (emphasis is not mine but the author’s)-

“The term body integrity identity disorder (BIID) describes the extremely rare phenomenon of persons who desire the amputation of one or more healthy limbs or who desire a paralysis. Some of these persons mutilate themselves; others ask surgeons for an amputation or for the transection of their spinal cord.”

Holy shirt Farb.

I got nothing. That is either trolltastically hilarious or you have the most warped view of trans people I have ever heard

 

[DaveXA]

So anything parents agree too is no one else business? What about child prostitution set up by a parent? What about selling of a child by a parent?
There are multiple examples of the society coming between a what a parent and teen wants to do.

So, if a parent wants to get a 12 year old a boob job because she wants to be a stripper, it should be fine? Sounds crazy right? Just replace 'stripper' with boy and it doesn't sound crazy to you does it? Odd.

The difference is child prostitution and selling of children is a crime and no amount of consent would make it legal. Getting a boob job or sex change isn't a crime. They require consent but are not criminalized. The conflating between these things is a false equivalence. So no, it's not odd at all. Oh, and 12 year olds aren't allowed to be strippers either. It's a silly take.

And it's funny that so many Republicans yell freedom and independence, yet want to control how people choose to live. That to me is the odd dichotomy.

 

[DaveXA]

Admit it, Farb. You want to rule everyone by your own biases. You want a theocracy according to your standards and to hell with everyone else.

Your examples are ridiculously extreme, reminiscent of the stupid arguments that if same sex marriage were legalized, we’d have men marrying toasters or horses or some such stupidity.

When parents and doctors, including psychologists and counselors are dealing with a teen who is at danger of suicide, real danger, and they determine that a procedure will help, I am not going to pretend I know more than the people who love that teen and the professionals who do this for a living. You’re more than happy to tell them what they can and cannot do. That’s the difference.

Imma go ahead and marry a toaster. They make my life so much easier. No idea how I'd survive without one.

 

[Taurus]

The difference is child prostitution and selling of children is a crime and no amount of consent would make it legal. Getting a boob job or sex change isn't a crime. They require consent but are not criminalized. The conflating between these things is a false equivalence. So no, it's not odd at all. Oh, and 12 year olds aren't allowed to be strippers either. It's a silly take.

And it's funny that so many Republicans yell freedom and independence, yet want to control how people choose to live. That to me is the odd dichotomy.

The hypocrisy is the point.
"I can make you do what I want while I also do what I want. Because I'm a greedy toddler and that's how we roll."

 

[Farb]

Admit it, Farb. You want to rule everyone by your own biases. You want a theocracy according to your standards and to hell with everyone else.

Your examples are ridiculously extreme, reminiscent of the stupid arguments that if same sex marriage were legalized, we’d have men marrying toasters or horses or some such stupidity.

When parents and doctors, including psychologists and counselors are dealing with a teen who is at danger of suicide, real danger, and they determine that a procedure will help, I am not going to pretend I know more than the people who love that teen and the professionals who do this for a living. You’re more than happy to tell them what they can and cannot do. That’s the difference.

Ok, so you are saying that prevention of suicide is the main reason that we all have to play along during a teens' mental break. Is that true though. Does gender affirming health care actually solve the problem of trans suicide or kick it down the road? Do we have data to back that up or is this experimental as well, like the off label puberty blockers.

What do you want your government to ruled by? Not my values and morals. Your values and morals? Of course you do. I just think some of your morals and values are completely 100% out of touch of realty and I don't agree with them and I also think they are huge net negative to our society. Sorry, I just don't agree with you politically on pretty much anything. Nothing new here, even your claims of forming a religious Christian theocracy.

 

[Farb]

You realize that the policy change you linked was based on a court case regarding informed consent by a minor, right? And that the lack of long-term data and potential side effects are common knowledge in the medical community, which is why something like this requires a team of doctors, including psychologists, to make the determination correctly? And that it's decided on a case-by-case basis and isn't a blanket treatment?

So trans affirming healthcare is experimental? Just so I am clear, injecting experimental drugs into girls who thinks they are boys during puberty and vice versa does not have the long term data to address all the possible known and unknown side effects?

We went from it not happening to in schools at all, to occasionally happening in rare examples to it is backed by science and completely safe and reversible and maybe the parents don't need to know their kid is transitioning because they might be unbelievers to all the side effects be damn because they might commit suicide and only big pharma and big medical can save them. Your new religion is really growing, but your messages are so contradicting.

 

[Farb]

It’s easy to find it - it’s been posted already on this board if I remember correctly. You’re absolutely wrong about there not being a difference. You didn’t pay attention when I posted it before, so why should I do an errand for you this time just to prove something you ignored already?

So, who do we believe then, the CDC or the WHO, because they feel differently on masking young kids?