Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (4 Viewers)

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    Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

    Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

    As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

    Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

    How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

    Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.
     
    DaveXA said:
    Maybe, but that won’t stop them from trying.
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    That's not what Dobbs held. Dobbs held that there is no constitutional basis for a federally-protected right to an abortion. The result is that it is left to the states (based on how federalism works) but the holding isn't specifically that "abortion is for the states to decide" ergo there's no basis for it in federal law.

    These are similar concepts but not mutually exclusive - just because there's no basis for an abortion right embedded there in the Constitution doesn't necessarily mean that Congress has no power to enact abortion law. Congress could still attempt to pass a nationwide abortion law that could stand if found to be a lawful exercise of Congress' limited power. I tend to agree that it's difficult for Congress to articulate such a basis in a persuasive way - the options would include the Commerce power (regulating interstate commerce), the Spending power (attaching abortion-related rules to federal funds), or the 14th Amendment's 'life, liberty, without due process" clause but each of these has significant concerns. There's a great summary from the CRS (below).

    I don't think it's a proper exercise of federal legislative power . . . but you know how these things go, it's not entirely predictable.

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    crsreports.congress.gov
     
    This is how the red states will cover up the deaths caused by their extreme laws on maternal health care. They have fired every member of the physician panel that found 2 avoidable deaths in the immediate aftermath of GA’s extreme law. That’s so we don’t ever find out how many deaths there are.

     
    MT15 said:
    This is how the red states will cover up the deaths caused by their extreme laws on maternal health care. They have fired every member of the physician panel that found 2 avoidable deaths in the immediate aftermath of GA’s extreme law. That’s so we don’t ever find out how many deaths there are.

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    it's just going to get worse. Remember these are Christians covering up deaths caused by them. this is what American Christianity has become.
     
    MT15 said:
    This is how the red states will cover up the deaths caused by their extreme laws on maternal health care. They have fired every member of the physician panel that found 2 avoidable deaths in the immediate aftermath of GA’s extreme law. That’s so we don’t ever find out how many deaths there are.

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    This is criminal.....
     
    A good point

    The tragic medical emergencies and deaths get all the press and attention but I'd suspect that exponentially more women have simply decided that an abortion is best for them and families
    =========================================
    A Kentucky woman known by the pseudonym Mary Poe recently filed a lawsuit against her state, seeking an abortion for what was once a banal reason: because she wanted one.

    Poe, who was about seven weeks pregnant at the time of the lawsuit’s filing, has since had an abortion out of state. But her attorneys argue that she still has standing to sue to overturn Kentucky’s two abortion bans – a six-week ban and a separate total ban – arguing that the laws violate the state constitution.

    This much, at least, is typical: lawsuits challenging abortion bans have sprung up across the country since Dobbs, with women and their families seeking to overturn bans, expand exceptions, or get some compensation from the state for the graphic, distressing, disabling or deadly outcomes that the bans have made them suffer…….

    Women who had suffered horrific medical complications became lucid, moving and highly sought after tellers of their own stories, explaining how abortion bans has risked their health:

    Amanda Zurawski, for example, was denied an emergency abortion at 18 weeks, subsequently went into septic shock twice, and one of her fallopian tubes was so scarred that it is now permanently closed, inhibiting her future fertility.

    Kate Cox was denied an abortion after discovering that her fetus has trisomy 18, a rare genetic condition which is incompatible with life, and which, because of Cox’s own medical history, also endangered her fertility and life.

    During her presidential run, Kamala Harris ran an ad featuring a woman identified only as Ondrea, who suffered a miscarriage at 16 weeks and was denied the standard care due to her state’s abortion ban. She developed sepsis and almost died.

    The ad features a shot of Ondrea in a bathroom, staring at her body in a mirror wearing only a sports bra. Her belly bears the scars of the emergency surgery that eventually saved her life – the surgery that she never would have had to have if it weren’t for the ban……

    Not so with Mary Poe. Poe may well be married, middle-class and white; from her statement, in which she talks about the difficulty of finding childcare, we can infer that she, like most abortion patients, is already a mother.

    But Poe is not suffering a physical emergency; she is not enduring any pain or medical misfortune that she can use to purchase social license.

    She is not, in other words, a woman whose claim to an abortion is based on a plea for mercy. She is merely a woman who seeks to be in control of her own life, one who believes that things like privacy and self-determination apply to her, too.

    “I have decided that ending my pregnancy is the best decision for me and my family,” Poe writes in her public statement. “This is a personal decision, a decision I believe should be mine alone, not made by anyone else.”……

    www.theguardian.com

    We must defend elective abortions, not just the most politically palatable cases | Moira Donegan

    After Dobbs, pro-choice advocates have emphasized women in medical crises. But those tragic cases are a limited picture
    www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
     
    Last edited:
    No surprise here. At this point I won’t even go to TX for any reason. And I would especially discourage anyone who is pregnant or trying to get pregnant from stepping foot in TX.

     
    MT15 said:
    No surprise here. At this point I won’t even go to TX for any reason. And I would especially discourage anyone who is pregnant or trying to get pregnant from stepping foot in TX.

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    I am all for abortion rights. I think any woman who wants one and can afford them should have as many as they choose. In cases of rape, I wouldn't even mind the state paying for one. It does seem weird that doctors who don't even perform abortions regularly would choose to leave a state over it. But they certainly may!
     
    Texan1211 said:
    I am all for abortion rights. I think any woman who wants one and can afford them should have as many as they choose. In cases of rape, I wouldn't even mind the state paying for one. It does seem weird that doctors who don't even perform abortions regularly would choose to leave a state over it. But they certainly may!
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    How dare they actually have principles! You sound like the "shut up and dribble" mantra. People aren't just gonna stand there and accept injustice.
     
    Texan1211 said:
    I am all for abortion rights. I think any woman who wants one and can afford them should have as many as they choose. In cases of rape, I wouldn't even mind the state paying for one. It does seem weird that doctors who don't even perform abortions regularly would choose to leave a state over it. But they certainly may!
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    Unfortunately, it's far more complicated than simply "does a doctor perform abortions or not"? We're seeing this in most of the states with draconian abortion laws - they impact a broader range of reproductive/maternal healthcare than simply doctors who perform elective abortions. There are conditions that develop where treatment procedures may result in the death of the fetus, either as a necessary medical decision or as a result of increased risk. The abortion laws are written in such a broad way that they include (and therefore criminalize) these kinds of treatments.

    This is why, for example, some hospitals have been turning away pregnant women in the midst of miscarriage - because if they treat the woman and the baby dies anyway, they could violate the law. Some women have died because treatment was refused. These laws could choose to define abortion in a much more narrow way - to get at what you're talking about, the situation where a mother goes to an abortion clinic and gets an abortion. But unfortunately none of these laws are written that way, they're so concerned about avoiding "loopholes" that they have made some traditional and medically appropriate OB treatment criminally risky for the doctors.

    So many are choosing to retire or leave these states.
     
    DaveXA said:
    How dare they actually have principles! You sound like the "shut up and dribble" mantra. People aren't just gonna stand there and accept injustice.
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    See, this is the main problem with Democrats. Even when someone agrees with the, they insist on arguing. Principles? What are you going on about?
     
    DaveXA said:
    How dare they actually have principles! You sound like the "shut up and dribble" mantra. People aren't just gonna stand there and accept injustice.
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    But really it's not about their principles - it's real impact on their medical practice. They can face charges or license reprimands for doing what it otherwise appropriate prenatal care.
     
    Texan1211 said:
    See, this is the main problem with Democrats. Even when someone agrees with the, they insist on arguing. Principles? What are you going on about?
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    Who's agreeing with what? He asked why doctors are leaving, implying that if they don't perform abortions, it has nothing to to with them. Except it does as Chuck explained it better than I could.

    And yes, people do have principles, or is that not a thing you care about?
     

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