Should we see the removal of statues like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. (1 Viewer)

[TheRealTruth]

Recently CNN aired an interview where one of the guests suggested what is in the topic.

CNN's Angela Rye: Washington, Jefferson Statues "Need To Come Down"

CNN's Angela Rye called for statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to come down Thursday on the network. "American history is not all glorious... George Washington was a slave owner. We need to call slave owners out for what they are. Whether we think they were protecting American...

www.realclearpolitics.com

I agree with the removal of confederate statues around the country, but should this also be done for founding fathers?

 

[Farb]

Holocaust memorials have been destroyed in our country all the way back to right after the end of Word War II. Why is it that only now should we be scared as hell about it? Were you scared as hell a few years ago when the graves of Holocaust survivors were desecrated?


Vandalism has been around since at least as long as the original Vandals were harassing the Roman empire. I doubt vandalism will ever completely end. I see nothing tying the vandalism, referred to in the article, to the movement to remove the icons of the confederacy and slavery from our public spaces.

So, if I am following along here, you are completely OK with vandalism and holocaust denying because it has been for a little bit?

Why do you think it was defaced? Completely a random coincidence?

I see alot of people doing a lot of mental gymnastics to not support the purge by the mob but it seems there is more effort to not find fault in it.

What about if we as a country, state, county or community (I don't care where it starts) put together a process to discuss and remove problematic statues, names instead of making it such a political and polarizing move. Why have a mob rule under cover of darkness what should be done with our public lands and public.

I know pulling down statues and changing names makes those involved and those that support it feel all warm and fuzzy inside and virtuous.
I amworried at some point, the average american will get really tired of watching our elected officials pander for votes while a mob tears down statues, changes street names, establish another country (colonizing and treason), change mascots and burn down buildings like spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum. Whatever this started as has turned really ugly and really divisive and to say other wise is just gaslighting and dishonest.
When that point comes, I am scared to death that it will be really fast, really violent and will leave a lasting rift in our society/culture that might not ever heal.

 

[BobE]

Remember when they weren't after every thing just the Confederates and really bad people..................

 

[Ayo]

It's Shaun King... I mean. Shaun King.

 

[BobE]

It's Shaun King... I mean. Shaun King.

Who a good few around here like to cite but other wise I would 100% agree with you

 

[LA - L.A.]

So, if I am following along here, you are completely OK with vandalism and holocaust denying because it has been for a little bit?

Please follow along better, because that's not even close to what I said. What I said was that it's not something be "scared as hell" about. That's nothing close to saying I'm "I'm completely OK with vandalism and holocaust denying." In fact, you're the only one that mentioned anything about holocaust denying.

Why would you even try to bring holocaust denying into the conservation and try to label me as being okay with it? It was a very disrespectful move on your part? Why did you do it?

Why do you think it was defaced? Completely a random coincidence?

Same people who do it the vast majority of the time, neo-Nazi white supremacists. I think it's probably a backlash against icons of the confederacy and slavery being taken down combined with an attempt to discredit and distract from the icons of the confederacy and slavery being taken down.

What do you think?

I see alot of people doing a lot of mental gymnastics to not support the purge by the mob but it seems there is more effort to not find fault in it.

We see things very differently and very conversely.

What about if we as a country, state, county or community (I don't care where it starts) put together a process to discuss and remove problematic statues, names instead of making it such a political and polarizing move. Why have a mob rule under cover of darkness what should be done with our public lands and public.

Do you think mayors, governors, city counsels, county councils, military leaders and the owner of NASCAR are a mob? Or are you just referring to the icons of the confederacy and slavery that are being pulled down by rebellious, private citizens?

Also, take your current level of fear, discomfort and/or outrage over what you currently see as mob rule and multiply it by a lot and stretch it out over your entire lifetime. If you do that, you'll have a sense of what it's like to live in our society as a black person for the last few hundred years. Maybe you can empathize instead of labeling them as a mob.

I know pulling down statues and changing names makes those involved and those that support it feel all warm and fuzzy inside and virtuous.
I amworried at some point, the average american will get really tired of watching our elected officials pander for votes while a mob tears down statues, changes street names, establish another country (colonizing and treason), change mascots and burn down buildings like spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum. Whatever this started as has turned really ugly and really divisive and to say other wise is just gaslighting and dishonest.
When that point comes, I am scared to death that it will be really fast, really violent and will leave a lasting rift in our society/culture that might not ever heal.

I hear your fear. It's real to you and nothing invalidates the fear that you are feeling. Your fear is not ground in reality or rationality.

Our entire society was born out of violence. Our society has always allowed state sanctioned violence. Black people have been the subject of unjust violence for over 400 years. What we're seeing is a diverse and majority group of our society coming together to call for an end to the centuries of state sponsored violence and oppression. Why it that you're just now "scared to death" of the violence in our society? Why were you not "scared to death" over the centuries of the unjust violence committed against black people and other minorities?

Last and perhaps most importantly, I haven't called you dishonest, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't accuse me and others that don't share your opinion as being dishonest simply because we don't share your opinion. It's disrespectful and divisive.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Remember when they weren't after every thing just the Confederates and really bad people..................

Jesus wouldn't have looked like a white, southern European. This is not about denying or critizing Jesus, it's about correcting a glaring and intentional mis-portrayal of how Jesus would have actually looked. Even the Shroud of Turin doesn't look like the white washed depictions of Jesus.

Why do you think the white, sothern Europeans chose to physically misrepresent Jesus as a white, southern European?

 

[BobE]

Why do you think the white, sothern Europeans chose to physically misrepresent Jesus as a white, southern European?

When my Delorean is fixed I'll ask them

 

[Ayo]

It's Shaun King... I mean. Shaun King.

 

[MT15]

I can remember one time I thought Shaun King was relevant and that was because I didn’t really know who he was and he fooled me for a minute. He’s not someone people should be listening to.

 

[surada]

So, if I am following along here, you are completely OK with vandalism and holocaust denying because it has been for a little bit?

Why do you think it was defaced? Completely a random coincidence?

I see alot of people doing a lot of mental gymnastics to not support the purge by the mob but it seems there is more effort to not find fault in it.

What about if we as a country, state, county or community (I don't care where it starts) put together a process to discuss and remove problematic statues, names instead of making it such a political and polarizing move. Why have a mob rule under cover of darkness what should be done with our public lands and public.

I know pulling down statues and changing names makes those involved and those that support it feel all warm and fuzzy inside and virtuous.
I amworried at some point, the average american will get really tired of watching our elected officials pander for votes while a mob tears down statues, changes street names, establish another country (colonizing and treason), change mascots and burn down buildings like spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum. Whatever this started as has turned really ugly and really divisive and to say other wise is just gaslighting and dishonest.
When that point comes, I am scared to death that it will be really fast, really violent and will leave a lasting rift in our society/culture that might not ever heal.

There are a couple hundred Holocaust Museums world wide and most have come into existence since the 1970s in places like Charleston and El Paso. I don't know how they could have been defaced in the 1950s ..

 

[LA - L.A.]

There are a couple hundred Holocaust Museums world wide and most have come into existence since the 1970s in places like Charleston and El Paso. I don't know how they could have been defaced in the 1950s ..

I made the mistake of not being clear with my language. I did specifically say vandalism of holocaust memorials when I was vaguely recalling these specific incidents and mixed them in with vandalizing of holocaust memorials:

The bombing of the Hebrew Benevolent Congregation in Atlanta in 1958 On October 12, 1958, 50 sticks of dynamite exploded in the Hebrew Benevolent Congregation, Atlanta’s oldest synagogue. The building sustained major damages, but no one was killed or injured. The attack was one in a series of attacks and attempted attacks on synagogues in the South in 1957 and ’58, spurred on by a rise in anti-Semitic sentiment among white supremacists during the desegregation era. Five men with links to the white-supremacist National States’ Rights Party were arrested and one was tried, but none was convicted.

The attack on Temple Beth-Israel in Gadsden, Alabama, in 1960 Before this weekend, the worst attack in a U.S. synagogue was believed to be the March 1960 attack on Temple Beth-Israel. A 16-year-old threw a bomb into the synagogue; the bomb did not explode, but the bomber shot at congregants as they ran from the scene, injuring two of them.

A Brief History of Anti-Semitic Violence in America

The synagogue attack in Pittsburgh may be the deadliest attack against Jews in American history—but it’s nowhere near the first.

www.theatlantic.com

You are correct that those are not holocaust memorials.

To me, the motivation for attacking these places is the same motivation behind attacking holocaust memorials and behind denying the holocaust. I see them as part of the same dynamic and that's why I don't see the recent vandalism of the memorial to the holocaust survivor as a new phenomenon that is in any way linked to the movement to remove confederate icons form public spaces.

 

[Farb]

I made the mistake of not being clear with my language. I did specifically say vandalism of holocaust memorials when I was vaguely recalling these specific incidents and mixed them in with vandalizing of holocaust memorials:

A Brief History of Anti-Semitic Violence in America

The synagogue attack in Pittsburgh may be the deadliest attack against Jews in American history—but it’s nowhere near the first.

www.theatlantic.com

You are correct that those are not holocaust memorials.

To me, the motivation for attacking these places is the same motivation behind attacking holocaust memorials and behind denying the holocaust. I see them as part of the same dynamic and that's why I don't see the recent vandalism of the memorial to the holocaust survivor as a new phenomenon that is in any way linked to the movement to remove confederate icons form public spaces.

You think Antisemitism is in no way related to the current BLM movement that currently purging memorials?

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

You think Antisemitism is in no way related to the current BLM movement that currently purging memorials?

Say what you mean to say

 

[CoolBrees]

Farb-

I will answer that question.

No. I don’t think there is an anti-semetic agenda behind BLM. I have not seen any evidence of any kind, just inuendo.

I would be interested in seeing this evidence and if that evidence stands up to scrutiny. Can you provide some information for me to digest?

 

[V Chip]

You think Antisemitism is in no way related to the current BLM movement that currently purging memorials?

Actually, I do think the rise in Antisemitism is directly related to the BLM movement.

Since BLM came on the scene, there has been a definite rise in the white nationalist movement in reaction to BLM (and emboldened by tacit support from certain political leaders and administrations). And with the rise of white nationalists, there is the linked rise in anti-semitism, since the vast majority of white nationalists are extremely anti-Semitic as well.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

It's Shaun King... I mean. Shaun King.

Yeah. Dude's a turd to the highest form.

 

[Farb]

King is a member and activist for BLM, correct? Just wondering if he speaks for all BLM supporters like Trump speaks for all conservatives?

 

[samiam5211]

I can remember one time I thought Shaun King was relevant and that was because I didn’t really know who he was and he fooled me for a minute. He’s not someone people should be listening to.

For a while I thought the former Bucs QB Sean King has become an activist.