Russian attitudes taking hold in US (1 Viewer)

[Saint by the Bay]

Oh, that stings. I see your wit is as sharp as your knowledge of Russian politics.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I will bookmark this comment for future use.

Are you trying to equate what you did as an adolescent to the politics of Putin?

Come on you guys are smarter than this. Pick a fight that has substance. Putin isn’t in the Communist party today, because he is a savvy dictator. He realizes that isn’t the way to make his iron fist acceptable.

my guess is you misspoke about the communist thing and now are too far out to walk it back

you don't think Russia is currently a communist country do you?
at 46, i assume you were old enough to remember Gorbachev and Yeltsin, yes?
and since Yeltsin Russia as been lead by Presidents and Prime Ministers (and both under Putin)

now of course we're walking in swampy territory here, bc we're talking about communism like it's a government - -and obviously it's an economic system - -up to gorbachev, russia was essentially a de facto communism presided over by the leader of a single party system (so essentially a dictatorship)

now maybe you meant that Putin is a dictator are returned Russia to single party rule like before Gorbachev instituted reforms - and if that's what you meant you would be correct

but Russia is clearly an oligarchy ruled by chief oligarch and Donny's crush, Vladimir
it would probably even be considered a rogue state if it did not have the oil wealth and cyber infrastructure it has
it was even flirting with being a failed state when Obama sanctions had it on its knees (the chief reason Putin targeted Hillary)
but we all know what happened there

 

[Lazybones]

Did you not understand the reference to Robert Byrd? I could venture until a Kavanaugh example of you would like?

To say that Putin is not a communist is like saying Charles Manson isn’t a criminal. He hasn’t committed a crime in public in years.

If the two of you can’t understand the way I described him, in the context of the hyperbole in the OP, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Did you not understand the reference to Robert Byrd? I could venture until a Kavanaugh example of you would like?

To say that Putin is not a communist is like saying Charles Manson isn’t a criminal. He hasn’t committed a crime in public in years.

If the two of you can’t understand the way I described him, in the context of the hyperbole in the OP, I don’t know what to tell you.

I will speak for SbtB and say ‘yes, we understand the analogies you’re struggling to make; we are saying that they do not apply bc the basis of your analogy is flawed’

 

[insidejob]

You got it! I don't obsess over the person occupying the White House. No matter who the President is I still have bills to pay and a family to support and protect. I survived Clinton, Bush43, Obama and I will survive Trump. Perhaps in 2024 there will be a candidate I can proudly support because there surely won't be one in 2020.

The bathing suit in your avatar is a violation of the flag code. Just FYI.

 

[Lazybones]

The bathing suit in your avatar is a violation of the flag code. Just FYI.

This is always a funny retort. CK disrespecting the flag and a chick with a flag bathing suit surely have the same meaning.

 

[yuyi64]

The bathing suit in your avatar is a violation of the flag code. Just FYI.

That's what she said when she wore it for me! I then told her to take it off purely out of respect for the flag.

 

[samiam5211]

Did you not understand the reference to Robert Byrd? I could venture until a Kavanaugh example of you would like?

To say that Putin is not a communist is like saying Charles Manson isn’t a criminal. He hasn’t committed a crime in public in years.

If the two of you can’t understand the way I described him, in the context of the hyperbole in the OP, I don’t know what to tell you.

Except Putin has never been a communist, nor was the Soviet Union ever communist.

Communism isn't an economy run by oligarchs, which is what the Soviet Union always was. The Russian revolution just replaced the monarch based oligarchy with a Bolshevik based oligarchy, which eventually became a mafia based oligarchy which is what Russia has now.

 

[Krodwhodat]

I saw a report on one of the talk shows that featured a Russian expert. He was very credible and didn’t seem to be overly partisan to me, very academic.

He maintains that Trump is pushing an extremely Russian narrative: everything is a joke, everybody is corrupt so nothing matters, because everyone is doing the same stuff. Whenever Trump is found to have done something “unusual” he manages to accuse one of his adversaries of doing the same thing. He responded to the fact that Putin is known to murder political foes with a shrug and mentioned supposed US transgressions. He told Russian officials, reportedly, that Russian interference in our election didn’t bother him because the US has done it to other countries.

I see it being pushed by other politicians as well as in the general population. It’s the sort of fatalism that hasn’t been seen as an American attribute in the past. It chokes off any reform before it can take hold and allows corruption to flourish unimpeded.

It’s a bit alarming.

Well, I was listening to the discussion on the radio in my car during my commute. I didn’t catch the name. I didn’t take notes as I was driving.

Honest question, though. Does the similarity not occur to you when you see Trump’s shrugging response and essentially a defense of Putin’s tendency to have perceived enemies murdered? He actually drew a comparison between Putin’s murders and US murders. I think he said something like, we kill a lot of people too.

Or the more recent report that he informed his Russian guests in the Oval Office that Russian interference in our election didn’t bother him because we have done it too?

I’m not saying this is the most important or egregious wrongdoing of Trump. It was just an observation that I heard and found interesting.

Seems like it touched a nerve, though.

I don’t know about TDS but I do know that there are some people that absolutely hate Trump and nothing will ever change their mind. I think it’s fair to say knowing the OP’s posting history that Trump could cure cancer and there would be an issue with it. I think the posters on here have a right to ask MT15 to do Homework just as much as the other people are asked. This is a forum full of opinions whether it’s mine or someone else’s that I heard and agree with. With that said in theOPs original post she said she SAW it on a talk show then on page 3 she LISTENED to it on the radio in her car. So which is it? Also it’s very important to the conversation to know what show you saw/listened to it on. Knowing the the posters history and the fact that it’s comparing Trump to Putin I can only assume it on a left wing show. If it’s MSNBC or something like that then maybe some of the right leaning posters wouldn’t have even commented, if it was on a somewhat neutral program then maybe it’s worth discussing. Also who said it is very important. Was it a left wing possibly Yale professor that hates Trump and has done nothing but go on left wing talk shows and bash the President or is it a right leaning even moderate professor whom is doing this for something other than a progressive agenda. What the OP did was put up a thread of someone’s opinion With zero info to back it up. If you saw it what channel were you watching if you don’t remember then what channels do you normally watch? What news shows? If you listened to it then what stations do you typically listen to in your car for news. That type of info will at least give us an idea if it’s even worth arguing.
but for other posters to sit here and challenge people who disagree about never having done homework because they have a different opinion is disingenuous and hypocritical. This is exactly how it was on the other board and why it will ruin this one and make it one sided. Some of these posters left the other board a long time ago and are here to give this one a try. Let’s try and curb the attacks or knowingly attack someone and then say you will just wait for the reprimand. Let’s try and be more civilized than the the current political climate in DC.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Except Putin has never been a communist, nor was the Soviet Union ever communist.

Communism isn't an economy run by oligarchs, which is what the Soviet Union always was. The Russian revolution just replaced the monarch based oligarchy with a Bolshevik based oligarchy, which eventually became a mafia based oligarchy which is what Russia has now.

While I see where you're coming from, I wouldn't agree that the Soviet Union wasn't Communist. It was certainly completely corrupt but the principles of Communism were there. The only problem was those rules didn't apply to the elite.

Russia under Putin has property rights, merit-based income, lower taxation to encourage real estate investment and on and on. While it is still incredibly corrupt it doesn't function under any Communist principles because Putin doesn't allow it. The Communist party pushes but they are an opposition party and Putin has absolutely no desire to go back to Communist rules. It would hit him hard in the pocket book.

 

[Lazybones]

Except Putin has never been a communist, nor was the Soviet Union ever communist.

Communism isn't an economy run by oligarchs, which is what the Soviet Union always was. The Russian revolution just replaced the monarch based oligarchy with a Bolshevik based oligarchy, which eventually became a mafia based oligarchy which is what Russia has now.

So your take is that Putin was not and has never been a communist correct?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I don’t know about TDS but I do know that there are some people that absolutely hate Trump and nothing will ever change their mind. I think it’s fair to say knowing the OP’s posting history that Trump could cure cancer and there would be an issue with it. I think the posters on here have a right to ask MT15 to do Homework just as much as the other people are asked. This is a forum full of opinions whether it’s mine or someone else’s that I heard and agree with. With that said in theOPs original post she said she SAW it on a talk show then on page 3 she LISTENED to it on the radio in her car. So which is it? Also it’s very important to the conversation to know what show you saw/listened to it on. Knowing the the posters history and the fact that it’s comparing Trump to Putin I can only assume it on a left wing show. If it’s MSNBC or something like that then maybe some of the right leaning posters wouldn’t have even commented, if it was on a somewhat neutral program then maybe it’s worth discussing. Also who said it is very important. Was it a left wing possibly Yale professor that hates Trump and has done nothing but go on left wing talk shows and bash the President or is it a right leaning even moderate professor whom is doing this for something other than a progressive agenda. What the OP did was put up a thread of someone’s opinion With zero info to back it up. If you saw it what channel were you watching if you don’t remember then what channels do you normally watch? What news shows? If you listened to it then what stations do you typically listen to in your car for news. That type of info will at least give us an idea if it’s even worth arguing.
but for other posters to sit here and challenge people who disagree about never having done homework because they have a different opinion is disingenuous and hypocritical. This is exactly how it was on the other board and why it will ruin this one and make it one sided. Some of these posters left the other board a long time ago and are here to give this one a try. Let’s try and curb the attacks or knowingly attack someone and then say you will just wait for the reprimand. Let’s try and be more civilized than the the current political climate in DC.

I agree it's OK to challenge any idea, it's about how you challenge it. If the best they can offer is "OMGZ, TDS!!!!" then we're better off without them, or better off without me so this site can become Tiger Drippings. Not all opinions are valid. Putin is a Communist is OBJECTIVELY false. This idea that we have to respect everyone's opinion no matter how OBJECTIVELY wrong it is has turned this country into an idiots paradise led by the King Idiot.

 

[Lazybones]

Putin congratulates Russia's Communist Party on its 17th Party Congress

One of the fundamental misconceptions about Vladimir Putin - and one shared by many of his erstwhile admirers - is that he is an anti-Communist. An equally widespread misconception is that the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is in unrelenting opposition to Putin and his government. In...

theduran.com

“In reality Putin – who was a member of the Communist Party until it was effectively (though temporarily) dissolved by Boris Yeltsin in August 1991 – has always recognised the Communist Party as an integral element of Russia’s history and political scene.”


What am I missing here?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Putin congratulates Russia's Communist Party on its 17th Party Congress

One of the fundamental misconceptions about Vladimir Putin - and one shared by many of his erstwhile admirers - is that he is an anti-Communist. An equally widespread misconception is that the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is in unrelenting opposition to Putin and his government. In...

theduran.com

“In reality Putin – who was a member of the Communist Party until it was effectively (though temporarily) dissolved by Boris Yeltsin in August 1991 – has always recognised the Communist Party as an integral element of Russia’s history and political scene.”


What am I missing here?

The part that despite the Communist Party existing in Russia Putin is not a member, nor does he enact Communist policies. They hold 20% of Parliament, and he's a politician, so he gave them a nod.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Trump congratulates Pelosi in briefing room, stumps for ‘wall’ by any other name - Roll Call

President Donald Trump made a surprise appearance Thursday in the White House briefing room, congratulating Speaker Nancy Pelosi on taking back the gavel and predicting they will work together on substantial legislation. “It’s a very very great achievement and hopefully we’re going to work...

www.rollcall.com

So Trump is a Democrat? What am I missing here?

 

[samiam5211]

While I see where you're coming from, I wouldn't agree that the Soviet Union wasn't Communist. It was certainly completely corrupt but the principles of Communism were there. The only problem was those rules didn't apply to the elite.

Russia under Putin has property rights, merit-based income, lower taxation to encourage real estate investment and on and on. While it is still incredibly corrupt it doesn't function under any Communist principles because Putin doesn't allow it. The Communist party pushes but they are an opposition party and Putin has absolutely no desire to go back to Communist rules. It would hit him hard in the pocket book.

Yea, I guess i'm just a purist. To me, if the elites are corrupt, then the system isn't really communism except in name only.

 

[samiam5211]

So your take is that Putin was not and has never been a communist correct?

That what I said.

There hasn't been a communist economy in modern history.

 

[V Chip]

I don’t know about TDS but I do know that there are some people that absolutely hate Trump and nothing will ever change their mind.

I agree with you on that.

However (you had to know that was coming), there are far more people that absolutely love Trump and nothing will ever change their mind. Trump has said more false things publicly than pretty much any modern politician, yet there are two results to that from a very large minority of the public:

1. No he didn't say that. The media/left/whatever person/entity reported it is biased and wrong, or
2. Who cares, politicians lie, it's what he meant was important not the actual truthiness of it (or just ignoring it all together).

I don't think I've met any (and if so very few) people who dislike/hate Trump based on nothing. Every one is based on things Trump has actually said or done -- based on the evidence of his actions. Nearly every one of the Trump apologists I've come across refuse the evidence outright in order to still support him -- almost out of spite for something else (liberals, media, intellectuals, etc.).

I know, I know -- I'm a liberal and fall into category #1 above for those who support Trump. Whatever. But I'll always challenge the idea that the problem is more with people from the left being irrational than with the people from the right, especially those who support Trump.