Russian attitudes taking hold in US (1 Viewer)

MT15

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I saw a report on one of the talk shows that featured a Russian expert. He was very credible and didn’t seem to be overly partisan to me, very academic.

He maintains that Trump is pushing an extremely Russian narrative: everything is a joke, everybody is corrupt so nothing matters, because everyone is doing the same stuff. Whenever Trump is found to have done something “unusual” he manages to accuse one of his adversaries of doing the same thing. He responded to the fact that Putin is known to murder political foes with a shrug and mentioned supposed US transgressions. He told Russian officials, reportedly, that Russian interference in our election didn’t bother him because the US has done it to other countries.

I see it being pushed by other politicians as well as in the general population. It’s the sort of fatalism that hasn’t been seen as an American attribute in the past. It chokes off any reform before it can take hold and allows corruption to flourish unimpeded.

It’s a bit alarming.
 

Beach Friends

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I don't really see a fair comparison between Putin and Trump at all.

Putin is a stone cold killer who is far too shrewd to let himself get set up like Trump has done.

Trump has the advantage of not giving a damn, but it is also his downfall.

Schiff and the IC have really stepped in it, but Trump would probably be better served to be more reserved with his comments and let the truth come out.

Putin wouldn't have a helicopter speech where he gave more ammunition to his opponents. He would slice their throats before they knew Putin was on to them.

Projection of corruption? Come on, I don't see any way a reasonable person could not see that when it comes to Biden and his boy, there is some there there.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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I saw a report on one of the talk shows that featured a Russian expert. He was very credible and didn’t seem to be overly partisan to me, very academic.

He maintains that Trump is pushing an extremely Russian narrative: everything is a joke, everybody is corrupt so nothing matters, because everyone is doing the same stuff. Whenever Trump is found to have done something “unusual” he manages to accuse one of his adversaries of doing the same thing. He responded to the fact that Putin is known to murder political foes with a shrug and mentioned supposed US transgressions. He told Russian officials, reportedly, that Russian interference in our election didn’t bother him because the US has done it to other countries.

I see it being pushed by other politicians as well as in the general population. It’s the sort of fatalism that hasn’t been seen as an American attribute in the past. It chokes off any reform before it can take hold and allows corruption to flourish unimpeded.

It’s a bit alarming.
in the lead up to WW2 US (and other 'allied') industrialists had no problem selling/'loaning' industrial material to germany and italy:
a: green is green
b: nazism is preferable to pretend communism (really just workers unionizing)

and it;s changed costumes a bit through the century, it's essentially the same dynamic at play
so now oligarchs/global wealth manipulation is preferred to progressivism/smart growth

i mean we're only 4 years removed from the release of the Panama Papers and we have corporations that contribute to Dem campaigns threatening to send those $$ to Trump of Warren is the nominee

we have always been in this place
 
OP
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MT15

MT15

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Well, that’s depressing.

I still submit that Trump has changed the narrative. His open corruption is damaging our society in ways that we will be working through for years, if not decades.

Why should anyone NOT cheat on their taxes at this point? Why should anyone support real campaign finance reform? Why would anyone tell the truth about anything these days, when lying badly is not only not discouraged but rewarded? Why not lie, cheat and steal your way through life?

What I’m seeing is that much, if not most, of our society actually depends on the honor system. When our leader violates the honor system every day, it’s going to be hard to maintain a decent society.
 

yuyi64

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Why should anyone NOT cheat on their taxes at this point? Why should anyone support real campaign finance reform? Why would anyone tell the truth about anything these days, when lying badly is not only not discouraged but rewarded? Why not lie, cheat and steal your way through life?
If you think that outlook on life started with Trump you've been asleep (or pretended to be) for a very long time. The "cheat and lie to get ahead" philosophy as practiced by a large segment of the population is at least several decades old and rose to an art form during the Clinton years.
 

Heathen

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If you think that outlook on life started with Trump you've been asleep (or pretended to be) for a very long time. The "cheat and lie to get ahead" philosophy as practiced by a large segment of the population is at least several decades old and rose to an art form during the Clinton years.
So wait..I assume you dont support that narrative, therefore do not support Trump either?
 

yuyi64

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So wait..I assume you dont support that narrative, therefore do not support Trump either?
You got it! I don't obsess over the person occupying the White House. No matter who the President is I still have bills to pay and a family to support and protect. I survived Clinton, Bush43, Obama and I will survive Trump. Perhaps in 2024 there will be a candidate I can proudly support because there surely won't be one in 2020.
 

Archies Ghost

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Sledge Hammer

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"TDS Much? " is likely going to be considering something of a drive by or inflammatory post. If someone replied to one of your posts with "are you on drugs?" would you consider that furthering conversation? Not likely.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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The idea that Russians view everything as a joke and nothing matters is ridiculous on its face.

This happened yesterday.


TDS much?

If anything, Trump is reading from the Democrat playbook.
On the new board I think it’s even more important to show your work and avoid silly counters like ‘TDS much’
And how exactly Trump is ‘reading from the Dem playbook’

Are you expressing actual ideas you can defend or just repeating talking points?
 

Saint by the Bay

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On the new board I think it’s even more important to show your work and avoid silly counters like ‘TDS much’
And how exactly Trump is ‘reading from the Dem playbook’

Are you expressing actual ideas you can defend or just repeating talking points?
No, they can't and yes they are.

Next question.
 

Sledge Hammer

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Painting with a broad brush. Wondering if someone in parroting a party line is different than unequivocally stating that the are. Granted, this is a semi rude retort, to a rude comment made earlier. it still doesn't help.
 

Archies Ghost

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On the new board I think it’s even more important to show your work and avoid silly counters like ‘TDS much’
And how exactly Trump is ‘reading from the Dem playbook’

Are you expressing actual ideas you can defend or just repeating talking points?
The idea that Trump is emulating Russia, Russians, or Putin is pretty much the defining symptom of TDS so the OP is itself the evidence.

The premise of the post is a complete mischaracterization of the population of an entire foreign nation in an attempt to continue the Russian collusion fever dream.

And I guarantee that you will not find an understanding of the character of the Russian people in any talking points memo by either party.

The silliness is on behalf of the OP and on your rather knee jerk defense of such a silly proposition.

Why do you insist that I "show my work" in a response to a wholly unsourced OP?
 

Lazybones

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On the new board I think it’s even more important to show your work and avoid silly counters like ‘TDS much’
And how exactly Trump is ‘reading from the Dem playbook’

Are you expressing actual ideas you can defend or just repeating talking points?
Don’t start with “show your work stuff”. Please hold OP to same standard.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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The idea that Trump is emulating Russia, Russians, or Putin is pretty much the defining symptom of TDS so the OP is itself the evidence.

The premise of the post is a complete mischaracterization of the population of an entire foreign nation in an attempt to continue the Russian collusion fever dream.

And I guarantee that you will not find an understanding of the character of the Russian people in any talking points memo by either party.

The silliness is on behalf of the OP and on your rather knee jerk defense of such a silly proposition.

Why do you insist that I "show my work" in a response to a wholly unsourced OP?
I understood OP’s understanding of the Russian commentator’s thoughts to be primarily about the way Putin is running Russia and not a cultural take on the entirety of Russia past, present and future

Do you really think OP was quoting a Russian commentator talking about all Russians everywhere?
 

Lazybones

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Nothing honestly. Just seems crazy for you to call Archie’s Ghost out about “proving his work” (as if that is a thing on a website forum) Why would you call out Archie’s ghost and not MT15?

Honest question?
 

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