Russian attitudes taking hold in US (1 Viewer)

[wardorican]

Lol. I scrolled back a couple pages. I didn’t read it, but #113 is addressed to you. If you want more, just ask.

Ha, I got mixed up. I meant post #132... just realized I wasnt quoting you. It was another poster. Sorry about the mix up.

 

[wardorican]

Petty fair summary and I agree with most of it, but let's not omit Ford.

He has been consistently lampooned as a big, hulking, clumsy oaf because he stumbled on the steps of Air Force One in the rain. People remember him more for the skits done about him as the Klutz in Chief by Chevy Chase on Saturday Night Live than his achievements.

He was Michigan football player, center/linebacker, on two national championship teams, served on the Warren Commission and had a long and distinguished career in Congress. His reputation for fairness and honesty was on the par with that of Jimmy Carter. His pardon of Nixon destroyed any chance of election, though most historians agree it was a necessary evil.

Ford and Chase made public appearances together afterward, something that I daresay we won't see with the current president and Alec Baldwin.

I omitted Ford and Carter on purpose. I wasn't alive for either of their presidency's.

Yes, I think the very public fall (weren't there 2?) And the pardon is what he got crap for. Otherwise, yeah, solid guy.

 

[MT15]

I remember reading the rebuttal of the clumsy oaf characterization of Ford at the time, DD. Probably in Time or Newsweek, I’d guess, since that was the extent of my periodical reading back then other than the local paper.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I moved this thread to the Mud pit.

I'm saddened by this. I think this could have been an interesting topic for discussion, but too many posts in here just don't seem to want to further discussion, they want to fuel a fight.

There will be a learning curve for everyone. Please have some patience.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I posted some comments, I gave up about half way through.

Trust me, I know what I'm doing.

 

[V Chip]

I understand and appreciate and your response. However, trump was hated before he used the DOJ or anyone else. He was vilified in the republican primaries and it has never stopped.

He was treated worse by his own party than he was by the left during the Primaries.

 

[SystemShock]

The "cheat and lie to get ahead" philosophy as practiced by a large segment of the population is at least several decades old and rose to an art form during the Clinton years.

That "philosophy" is as old as time itself. And the Clintons hardly elevated it to an art form.

 

[SystemShock]

I saw a report on one of the talk shows that featured a Russian expert. He was very credible and didn’t seem to be overly partisan to me, very academic.

He maintains that Trump is pushing an extremely Russian narrative: everything is a joke, everybody is corrupt so nothing matters, because everyone is doing the same stuff. Whenever Trump is found to have done something “unusual” he manages to accuse one of his adversaries of doing the same thing. He responded to the fact that Putin is known to murder political foes with a shrug and mentioned supposed US transgressions. He told Russian officials, reportedly, that Russian interference in our election didn’t bother him because the US has done it to other countries.

I see it being pushed by other politicians as well as in the general population. It’s the sort of fatalism that hasn’t been seen as an American attribute in the past. It chokes off any reform before it can take hold and allows corruption to flourish unimpeded.

It’s a bit alarming.

Question:
Was this expert referring to government types, or the general population?

And true enough, the U.S. not only has meddled with elections/governments in other countries, we continue to do so.

 

[Beach Friends]

And the Clintons hardly elevated it to an art form.

It wasn't from a lack of trying.

 

[SystemShock]

The idea that Russians view everything as a joke and nothing matters is ridiculous on its face.

This happened yesterday.

Thousands of Russians take to streets in Moscow demanding release of political prisoners

‘No one can get a fair hearing in Russian courts - injustice and lawlessness can happen to anyone now’

www.independent.co.uk

TDS much?

If anything, Trump is reading from the Democrat playbook.

I think both you and the OP (or the person the OP refers to) are making generalizations, over-simplifying the socio-political environment in a country to fit a narrative. It is way more complex than that. It is very possible both attitudes exist, even within the same individuals. It is very possible to think everything is a joke and nothing matters politically speaking, until something happens that you don't think is a joke, then it becomes serious.

And if you really think about it, it really isn't that different from our socio-political environment... the difference is the degree in which it occurs... we are mostly blind to the true corruption within our system, and our politicians don't engage in assassination attempts or blatantly put someone in jail because they don't like what they say.

 

[SystemShock]

It wasn't from a lack of trying.

No.

Both your comment and the "art form" comment are just throwaway comments, of no substance at all.

But, do you know what they say about the devil? That his greatest accomplishment was to convince he didn't exist?

 

[wardorican]

So, I didnt get to spend enough time looking, but here is a PBS article from last year on Russian news propaganda, and I think it is easy to see aspects of this in the US.

After a week of Russian propaganda, I was questioning everything

Beyond bots, what does Russian propaganda look like? How is it made? To find out, I spent a day inside the newsroom of Radio Sputnik, a Russian government-funded media outlet, and a week consuming only Sputnik news.

www.pbs.org

My short hand summary is that unlike critical thinking exercises, (is this true? What's normal? How much beyond normal is this? Is there evidence?) The doubt that they sow is more to use things that sound like critical thinking, but really just move you to doubt everything and paralyze you. Similar to 'paralysis by analysis'.

You see this more in the far less scrupulous websites and talk radio folks. Even a few TV opinion talking heads.

 

[Beach Friends]

No.

Both your comment and the "art form" comment are just throwaway comments, of no substance at all.

It's not as though I was arguing a contested issue. I think everyone agrees that the Clinton's are shady as hell. I just thought you were pointing out that they really aren't that hol

So, I didnt get to spend enough time looking, but here is a PBS article from last year on Russian news propaganda, and I think it is easy to see aspects of this in the US.

After a week of Russian propaganda, I was questioning everything

Beyond bots, what does Russian propaganda look like? How is it made? To find out, I spent a day inside the newsroom of Radio Sputnik, a Russian government-funded media outlet, and a week consuming only Sputnik news.

www.pbs.org

My short hand summary is that unlike critical thinking exercises, (is this true? What's normal? How much beyond normal is this? Is there evidence?) The doubt that they sow is more to use things that sound like critical thinking, but really just move you to doubt everything and paralyze you. Similar to 'paralysis by analysis'.

You see this more in the far less scrupulous websites and talk radio folks. Even a few TV opinion talking heads.

I am not exactly sure what the "this" is that you say you "even" see among TV talking heads, but what should be trusted news sources have turned jokes.

Furthermore, the lack of credibility much of the MSM suffers from just opens the door to more unscrupulous actors (if there is such a thing). If people could actually trust the MSM, they would not be as susceptible to disinformation.

 

[V Chip]

Furthermore, the lack of credibility much of the MSM suffers from just opens the door to more unscrupulous actors (if there is such a thing). If people could actually trust the MSM, they would not be as susceptible to disinformation.

I think the MSM is far more trustworthy than they are given credit for lately. It's just that people who distrust the "MSM" actually do trust the "MSM" that they already agree with, and distrust those that they don't. Fox News is the most mainstream of the MSM as they have the highest ratings (well, last I remember anyway) but most of the people who say they distrust the "MSM" don't count Fox News as being a part of the "MSM."

 

[Beach Friends]

I think the MSM is far more trustworthy than they are given credit for lately. It's just that people who distrust the "MSM" actually do trust the "MSM" that they already agree with, and distrust those that they don't. Fox News is the most mainstream of the MSM as they have the highest ratings (well, last I remember anyway) but most of the people who say they distrust the "MSM" don't count Fox News as being a part of the "MSM."

Do you also believe that Fox is more trustworthy than people who lean left give them credit for being?

 

[V Chip]

Do you also believe that Fox is more trustworthy than people who lean left give them credit for being?

Their news organization/programs? Yes.

The rest of their shows and featured commentator shows? Hell no.