Joe Biden on Gun Control (2 Viewers)

[Beach Friends]

While saying he supports the Second Amendment, Biden called the absolutist arguments of some gun-rights supporters “bizarre.” Noting people can’t own machine guns or bazookas, Biden said, “Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9-mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?”

Speaking at the ‘House of Amazon,’ Joe Biden gently raises company’s role in middle-class job losses

Joe Biden raked in campaign cash at two private Seattle fundraisers on Friday, including one at the home of a top Amazon executive, where the former vice president ever-so-gently raised the role the company has played in the loss of...

www.seattletimes.com

IMO, if Biden wants to persuade people, including those who want to retain the right to own weapons for self defense, he really should learn more about guns. Based on prior statements as well those he made in the linked article, he seems hung up on the idea that a shotgun is the correct weapon for personal defense, and that a 2-3 round capacity is adequate. Furthermore, when he throws out "9mm" as if it is some unusually lethal round, he really sounds as though he is, at best, willfully ignorant and can't be trusted when it comes to legislation restricting gun ownership.

 

[Joe Okc]

I would think that is a bit excessive.

Did we not learn a thing with the racial profile thing? That would easily be used to profile who they wanted to profile.

Closing a few loopholes and making the exchange of guns have to go thru a background check does not seem so excessive to me.

But then again the guns I own have not been shot since they were my great uncles.

Loopholes... Background checks?? That only happens if you buy a gun from a gun store... You got guns you just mentioned that you didn't take a background check on... I bought a gun once in a parking lot of a 7-11... Still got it...

I still would like more members to be added before we get into a real gun debate.

 

[MT15]

Joe, you don’t have to participate in this thread if you don’t want to, but I find it troubling that you seem to want to shut down this thread. People are free to participate or not.

 

[RegularChuck]

Honestly.. I would like to refrain from discussing guns at this time until this website goes live and we get more members in here. and this place becomes a little more balanced out...

Can you help me understand what more members has to do your your opinion on guns and gun control?

 

[Joe Okc]

Joe, you don’t have to participate in this thread if you don’t want to, but I find it troubling that you seem to want to shut down this thread. People are free to participate or not.

I am not wanting to shut down anything... Just stating that I would really like for more members to be present from both sides before we have a good and clear gun debate.. Right now I don;t think that we have a blanced forum yet... This site has yet go go live and attract new members other than the old PDB'ers...

Talk Bidens view on guns all you want. Buy a shotgun...

 

[RegularChuck]

I am not wanting to shut down anything... Just stating that I would really like for more members to be present from both sides before we have a good and clear gun debate.. Right now I don;t think that we have a blanced forum yet... This site has yet go go live and attract new members other than the old PDB'ers...

Talk Bidens view on guns all you want. Buy a shotgun...

Ok, let us know when membership levels have reached a satisfactory threshold for you to discuss.

 

[The moose]

Your grasp of the history of the founding of the United States is quite limited.

The United States was formed by a bunch of guys opposed to the tyranny of the state.

One of the things that tyrannical state attempted was disarming the populace.



Sound familiar?

I get what you are saying to a point but we have some real problems with it.

Her is one question for you what was the last war fought on us soil?


When you find that answer you will see that I am saying.

Just for example the anti tank stuff sold to the Ukraine just the round is 190k.

So how are a bunch of rag tag militia people gonna compete? They are not by a long shot.


We have a better shot of a zombie problem than a need for a militia.

Oh the cival war was the last one on our soil.

 

[Dragon]

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

As far as I can read there is nothing in that statement which prohibits mandatory gun training and background checks to ensure that whoever get the guns both are able to use them in a safe way, know how to keep them safe and do not have issues like prior criminal records og records of psycological problems. There is also not anything which prohibits gunregistration to ensure that all guns are accounted for.

A Car need a registration, so that the driver can be held accountable for driving violations, so why should a gun not meet the same requirements?

And to go back to the Biden article - the point he makes really shows how crazy this is

Mentioning his own shotgun ownership, Biden talked about Delaware goose-hunting restrictions that limit hunters to three shotgun shells. “We protect geese from Canada more than we do people,” he said.

 

[The moose]

Loopholes... Background checks?? That only happens if you buy a gun from a gun store... You got guns you just mentioned that you didn't take a background check on... I bought a gun once in a parking lot of a 7-11... Still got it...

I still would like more members to be added before we get into a real gun debate.

Yeah Joe when I say loopholes that is person to person gun sales.

I for one would be worried said 711 gun would have a body on it.

Good to see ya here Joe.

 

[Joe Okc]

Yeah Joe when I say loopholes that is person to person gun sales.

I for one would be worried said 711 gun would have a body on it.

Good to see ya here Joe.

Thank You Moose...

 

[Beach Friends]

As far as I can read there is nothing in that statement which prohibits mandatory gun training and background checks to ensure that whoever get the guns both are able to use them in a safe way, know how to keep them safe and do not have issues like prior criminal records og records of psycological problems. There is also not anything which prohibits gunregistration to ensure that all guns are accounted for.

A Car need a registration, so that the driver can be held accountable for driving violations, so why should a gun not meet the same requirements?

And to go back to the Biden article - the point he makes really shows how crazy this is

Mentioning his own shotgun ownership, Biden talked about Delaware goose-hunting restrictions that limit hunters to three shotgun shells. “We protect geese from Canada more than we do people,” he said.

Biden's statement was silly.

You can legally hunt geese.

You can't legally hunt humans.

 

[brandon]

Yeah, Biden's lack of knowledge on this subject is fairly obvious here, and IMO... disqualifies his opinion on it.

As long as the ones doing the shooting are the only ones allowed to have an opinion on this, we’re not going to fix the problem.

You don’t have to be a gun enthusiast to understand workable solutions to preventing shooting deaths.

As a matter of fact, I think that people who like to shoot guns have an inherent bias in this conversation that, IMO disqualifies their opinion on how to fix the problem of people getting shot with guns.

See how that works?

 

[Beach Friends]

As long as the ones doing the shooting are the only ones allowed to have an opinion on this, we’re not going to fix the problem.

You don’t have to be a gun enthusiast to understand workable solutions to preventing shooting deaths.

As a matter of fact, I think that people who like to shoot guns have an inherent bias in this conversation that, IMO disqualifies their opinion on how to fix the problem of people getting shot with guns.

See how that works?

If you are going to fix a problem you really have to be able identify the problem. That seems self evident. And you really don't have to be an enthusiast to educate yourself.

Otherwise you come up with "solutions" like banning hollow point ammo because it "sounds" scary, when in fact it's a safer alternative.

 

[brandon]

If you are going to fix a problem you really have to be able identify the problem. That seems self evident. And you really don't have to be an enthusiast to educate yourself.

Otherwise you come up with "solutions" like banning hollow point ammo because it "sounds" scary, when in fact it's a safer alternative.

Safer for whom?

 

[Beach Friends]

Safer for whom?

Anyone behind the person shot.

 

[brandon]

Bystanders.

Not that this argument is even germane to the topic, but I’ll go down this road a bit.

You would agree that it is, in fact, not safer for the target, correct?

So how are hollow points safer in, say, a school shooting situation, where everyone is a target and no one is a bystander?

Sure, hollow points are safer when there’s a specific target, and once the target is down the shooting stops. But that is not the issue we face when school shooters are involved.

 

[Beach Friends]

Not that this argument is even germane to the topic, but I’ll go down this road a bit.

You would agree that it is, in fact, not safer for the target, correct?

So how are hollow points safer in, say, a school shooting situation, where everyone is a target and no one is a bystander?

Sure, hollow points are safer when there’s a specific target. But that is not the issue we face when school shooters are involved.

Well, since I am only intending to use my firearm for self defense, a hollow point is my choice.

 

[RegularChuck]

Anyone behind the person shot.

What kind of responsible gun owner shoots at a threat when there are innocent bystanders behind the threat?

 

[Archies Ghost]

I get what you are saying to a point but we have some real problems with it.

Her is one question for you what was the last war fought on us soil?


When you find that answer you will see that I am saying.

Just for example the anti tank stuff sold to the Ukraine just the round is 190k.

So how are a bunch of rag tag militia people gonna compete? They are not by a long shot.


We have a better shot of a zombie problem than a need for a militia.

Oh the cival war was the last one on our soil.

An armed populace need not have parity with the government to effectively prevent that government from attempting the worst forms of abuse.

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The idea that asymmetry in military capability is the deciding factor in armed conflict is demonstrably false. The American Revolution is proof of that and there are many more conflicts that amply demonstrate the point.

Vietnam springs to mind as an obvious example. Our endless GWOT is another easy example.

Your own example of the lethal aid provided to Ukraine demonstrates effective asymmetry of capability deterring a foe.

Russia is acknowledged to far exceed the military capability of Ukraine, yet a small number of anti-tank missiles have proven effective.

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As for warfare on American soil, one can easily argue that the GWOT is fought daily on American soil. The 9/11 attacks certainly were.

WWII saw Pearl Harbor, ineffective Japanese attacks on the west coast, substantially more effective operations in Alaska. Thousands of merchant mariners as well as Allied military fought and many died in US territorial waters.

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The purpose of the Second Amendment is to provide a check on the worst inclinations of our ruling class. In order to do that, the arms must be freely available and not subject to restrictions that decrease their effectiveness.

Restricting the government from confiscating those weapons from persons it deems "unfit" is a first principle that must be defended.