Joe Biden on Gun Control (1 Viewer)

[Beach Friends]

While saying he supports the Second Amendment, Biden called the absolutist arguments of some gun-rights supporters “bizarre.” Noting people can’t own machine guns or bazookas, Biden said, “Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9-mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?”

Speaking at the ‘House of Amazon,’ Joe Biden gently raises company’s role in middle-class job losses

Joe Biden raked in campaign cash at two private Seattle fundraisers on Friday, including one at the home of a top Amazon executive, where the former vice president ever-so-gently raised the role the company has played in the loss of...

www.seattletimes.com

IMO, if Biden wants to persuade people, including those who want to retain the right to own weapons for self defense, he really should learn more about guns. Based on prior statements as well those he made in the linked article, he seems hung up on the idea that a shotgun is the correct weapon for personal defense, and that a 2-3 round capacity is adequate. Furthermore, when he throws out "9mm" as if it is some unusually lethal round, he really sounds as though he is, at best, willfully ignorant and can't be trusted when it comes to legislation restricting gun ownership.

 

[superchuck500]

The red flag laws concern me more than outlawing specific weapons.

The potential for abuse of those laws is pretty obvious when one thinks about it.

I can see that, but if 'potential for abuse' were a compelling standard to avoid legislation toward a meaningful public purpose, we wouldn't have all sorts of structures that we have now that are important. The better approach is to be thoughtful in the construction of the process and be vigilant about mitigating abuse.

Not just throwing the whole thing out base on potential abuse.

 

[The moose]

Who said I was fighting against better background checks to keep guns our of the hands of unstable minds? I sure didn't.

In fact, I asked for a "realistic opinion" on it... my issue is (as I said)...

Who gets to define who a "bad guy" - "mentally unstable" - "unfit to own a weapon" person is? And what's that definition?

Because the answer to THAT question, and the definition that follows, can be the difference between a sensible gun laws - and the potential gestapo in disguise... so I am going to need more than "trust me" - "more laws" - "red flags" - back ground checks" chants from the super trusty guys on capital hill.

I get what you are saying to a point but Jesus if they don't do something soon are you willing to put school children's lives on it? Are you gonna worry everytime an family member goes to Walmart?

This is just plain silly. I am tired of the people dieing. I am tired of corporate greed steering us into death for profit.

You know the way to keep your guns is thru education and screening plain and simple.

 

[TrumpWinsAgain2020]

When gathering support from ignorant and uneducated people, Biden must stay within their wheelhouse.

 

[superchuck500]

When gathering support from ignorant and uneducated people, Biden must stay within their wheelhouse.

 

[SystemShock]

1. For a lot of people the motor skills needed to reload that shotgun are going to be greatly diminished under pressure. But, I don't have too much of an issue with this because the average person who can handle a shotgun is going to be able to more effectively put rounds on target than they would with the most likely alternative, a pistol.

2. The difference in recoil between a 12 guage shotgun and a .223 is dramatic. I know it's not going to be that big of a deal for you or I, but for a smaller person it can be.

That all goes back to choosing the right weapon for you.
And that's really the point, the nuance of right weapon for home or self defense, which is the weapon that's right for you. If Biden thinks the correct weapon for home defense is a shotgun, I happen to agree with him, and I am hardly alone in that thought. The shell count he speaks of, 2 shells should be enough to stop a couple of intruders. Although personally, I like to have a bit more. And frankly, I have 2 saddles because it looks cool (tac shotgun with saddles loaded with Hornady critical defense shells 'cause they're black)

3. I am not sure what you mean by being put through a wall.

I meant to type doorways.

I am talking about the risk of walking around corners etc with a long gun in your hand.
First, it's a lot easier for someone to get his hand on the barrel of a long gun than a handgun. Second, it's a lot easier to rip that shotgun out of someone's hands without taking a round.

I know what you are talking about, but frankly, that sounds like something you see in those self-defense videos on youtube.

And the reality is, no one knows how they are going to react to an active shooting until they are involved in an active shooting, no matter how many times they go to the range or do dry runs in their home. Having a gazillion guns and a gazillion rounds doesn't change that, and doesn't give you any better odds when the zombie apocalypse (code name for government coming to take your guns) comes for you.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I get what you are saying to a point but Jesus if they don't do something soon are you willing to put school children's lives on it? Are you gonna worry everytime an family member goes to Walmart?

This is just plain silly. I am tired of the people dieing. I am tired of corporate greed steering us into death for profit.

You know the way to keep your guns is thru education and screening plain and simple.

You should want to outlaw shotguns if you are so worried about this.

A shotgun with an open choke and 00 buckshot is much more effective per round than the so called "assault weapons" in clearing a hallway full of kids.

The shooters choose assault weapons because that is how you get the most notoriety or they think they look cool.

 

[crosswatt]

You should want to outlaw shotguns if you are so worried about this.

A shotgun with an open choke and 00 buckshot is much more effective per round than the so called "assault weapons" in clearing a hallway full of kids.

I mostly agree with this, but the Dayton, Ohio shooting shows how efficiently the assault weapon can be used in the ending of innocent life. Nine dead and twenty-seven injured in around half a minute. That's worth at least discussing having some special type of licensing to possess one of these types of firearms.

The shooters choose assault weapons because that is how you get the most notoriety or they think they look cool.

This I totally agree with, which again I think makes it worthy of at least some special designation.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I mostly agree with this, but the Dayton, Ohio shooting shows how efficiently the assault weapon can be used in the ending of innocent life. Nine dead and twenty-seven injured in around half a minute. That's worth at least discussing having some special type of licensing to possess one of these types of firearms.


This I totally agree with, which again I think makes it worthy of at least some special designation.

That license was issued on December 15, 1791

 

[crosswatt]

That license was issued on December 15, 1791

Well it's up for renewal and grandpa is gonna need to complete a road test soon.

 

[The moose]

You should want to outlaw shotguns if you are so worried about this.

A shotgun with an open choke and 00 buckshot is much more effective per round than the so called "assault weapons" in clearing a hallway full of kids.

The shooters choose assault weapons because that is how you get the most notoriety or they think they look cool.

Dude you guys worried about your guns should be proactive instead or what is going on now not even reactivate.

It is just fact. Get involved make something happen you can live with instead sticking your head in the sand.

Want an outcome you can live with quit betting on the Russian funded NRA.

 

[Joe Okc]

The AR-15 is actually an excellent choice for home defense. Great accuracy, low recoil, low penetration through building materials. A little big for the night stand.

Low penetrating?.. Well... maybe not when you using X-tac light armor piercing NATO 5.56..

 

[SystemShock]

That license was issued on December 15, 1791

1791 was a long, long time ago, in a different world.

Since then, items have been added and removed from the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, while we still base our laws on its principles, the interpretation of the text has evolved with the times.

It took another 128 years before Justice Holmes wrote that the 1st amendment didn't protect speech that was false and dangerous, like "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic". So, yeah, it was legal in 1791 to yield fire inside a crowded theater.

If we were to adhere 100% to the text of the Constitution and what it meant in 1791, things like wiretapping without a warrant wouldn't be illegal today. There was no wire to tap in 1791. A search meant someone breaking down your door and going through your stuff. But today we interpret wiretapping as a form of illegal search.

The 2nd amendment also has the peculiarity that it is the only text in the Constitution (IIRC) that deals directly with technology. And, needless to say, technology certainly has changed since 1791.

 

[Infoman]

And, needless to say, technology certainly has changed since 1791.

Unfortunately, people have not... until they do... the methods / tools which are used to inflict death upon their fellow man won't mean much. Sincerely, all the millions of dead Americans killed before assault rifles, extended mags, and "9mm"'s were invented

 

[SystemShock]

Unfortunately, people have not... until they do... the methods / tools which are used to inflict death upon their fellow man won't mean much. Sincerely, all the millions of dead Americans killed before assault rifles, extended mags, and "9mm"'s were invented

That is true, and as I said before, to me, the biggest issue is the cult ideology around guns, not the guns themselves.

 

[not2rich]

Unfortunately, people have not... until they do... the methods / tools which are used to inflict death upon their fellow man won't mean much. Sincerely, all the millions of dead Americans killed before assault rifles, extended mags, and "9mm"'s were invented

Sure, humans are what we are, but let's not pretend the tools don't matter. There's a reason we don't send our infantry soldiers into battle with their bare hands, clubs, swords, spears, or muskets, and instead give them selective fire M4 carbines.

 

[Infoman]

Sure, humans are what we are, but let's not pretend the tools don't matter. There's a reason we don't send our infantry soldiers into battle with their bare hands, clubs, swords, spears, or muskets, and instead give them selective fire M4 carbines.

Yeah, that wasn't my point... but I get yours... I'm just saying, people won't stop building houses if we outlaw pneumatic nail guns... they'll just find another tool to get the job done, or find a way to get around the law that prohibits it. People have been killing each other in droves since the dawn of the bronze age... the level of technology and type of weapon has not changed that fact.

Also, as I stated before... the vast majority of gun deaths - Are suicides.... another large percentage of gun deaths are criminal / drug related... these are mental health, self worth, life value, depression, desperation, lack of education, lack of guidance, lack of opportunity, etc etc etc issues.... not gun issues...

The use of guns in these situations is the symptom... all the other things I mentioned are the root cause. Until we address the root cause... none of the symptoms, or the tools used to generate those symptoms will go away.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yeah, that wasn't my point... but I get yours... I'm just saying, people won't stop building houses if we outlaw pneumatic nail guns... they'll just find another tool to get the job done, or find a way to get around the law that prohibits it. People have been killing each other in droves since the dawn of the bronze age... the level of technology and type of weapon has not changed that fact.

Also, as I stated before... the vast majority of gun deaths - Are suicides.... another large percentage of gun deaths are criminal / drug related... these are mental health, self worth, life value, depression, desperation, lack of education, lack of guidance, lack of opportunity, etc etc etc issues.... not gun issues...

The use of guns in these situations is the symptom... all the other things I mentioned are the root cause. Until we address the root cause... none of the symptoms, or the tools used to generate those symptoms will go away.

What do you see as the underlying cause and how would you go about beginning to address it?

 

[Infoman]

What do you see as the underlying cause and how would you go about beginning to address it?

I already stated some of the underlying causes - mental health, self worth, life value, depression, desperation, lack of education, lack of guidance, lack of opportunity, etc etc etc

We obviously need to spend more time and tax dollars on counseling, mentoring, work opportunity and trade training, etc... than we do on prosecution, enforcing bans, enacting wasteful and partisan legislation, and incarceration... I feel very much the same way about the failed "War on Drugs"... banning things/substances that sick, desperate, and mental people want/use... doesn't fix anything because they don't address the root cause of the problem and generally don't stop or mitigate the symptoms anyway.