Joe Biden on Gun Control (1 Viewer)

[Beach Friends]

While saying he supports the Second Amendment, Biden called the absolutist arguments of some gun-rights supporters “bizarre.” Noting people can’t own machine guns or bazookas, Biden said, “Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9-mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?”

Speaking at the ‘House of Amazon,’ Joe Biden gently raises company’s role in middle-class job losses

Joe Biden raked in campaign cash at two private Seattle fundraisers on Friday, including one at the home of a top Amazon executive, where the former vice president ever-so-gently raised the role the company has played in the loss of...

www.seattletimes.com

IMO, if Biden wants to persuade people, including those who want to retain the right to own weapons for self defense, he really should learn more about guns. Based on prior statements as well those he made in the linked article, he seems hung up on the idea that a shotgun is the correct weapon for personal defense, and that a 2-3 round capacity is adequate. Furthermore, when he throws out "9mm" as if it is some unusually lethal round, he really sounds as though he is, at best, willfully ignorant and can't be trusted when it comes to legislation restricting gun ownership.

 

[SystemShock]

What's wrong with a shotgun for home defense?

 

[reubenray]

I have a 9 MM semi-auto pistol, a 38 special revolver and a sawed off legal shotgun. I keep the 38 out for protection. It is easier to grab and pull the trigger than the 9 MM with the safety. The shotgun shoots a wide pattern and has a good chance of either shooting an innocent person of not having enough power to take care of the intruder if further than 10'. Plus the shotgun will destroy a lot of other stuff also (walls, furniture, etc.). I modified the shotgun many years ago for my wife to use for protection when I had to go out of state to work.

 

[Archies Ghost]

The AR-15 is actually an excellent choice for home defense. Great accuracy, low recoil, low penetration through building materials. A little big for the night stand.

 

[Beach Friends]

What's wrong with a shotgun for home defense?

Since this is a thread about Biden, let's look at what he advises Americans to use for home defense. Biden believes the best solution is to get a double barrel 12 guage and then fire off two warning shots. Yes, that's right - you have two shots and fire them both in the air.

But, to answer your question:

1. Low capacity of rounds (which may be offset by the fact it's easier to hit what you are aiming at the first time).

2. Recoil management. Probably not too much of an issue for you, but for women and children it can be a huge issue. If you are going with a shotgun for other members of the family, skip Joe's advice and get a 20 guage youth model.

3. Maneuvarbility. This is a big issue depending on your environment. Going through doorways with a long shotgun is pretty damn dangerous - if someone gets a hand on the barrel and they have had training, they will take it away from you.

Nonetheless, shotguns do have their advantages and it might be the right choice for you to make. It just shouldn't be up to Joe Biden. He doesn't know he is talking about.

 

[The moose]

Alright guys can't have it two ways here.

First you have to admit that idiot gun owners are giving good gun owners a bad name.

Either one you make it harder for idiots to get guns or you limit what said idiot can get. That are the options.

Might I suggest that people that love their guns push for change that you can live with. If I were you I would be yelling from the rooftops for better background checks and everything else.

Pick your poison with this because it has to change. I am tired of mass shooting. Our children should not be scared going to school.

And yes a shotgun is great for home protection.

The noise will make people run to the door before you ever have to shoot.

 

[Archies Ghost]

Alright guys can't have it two ways here.

First you have to admit that idiot gun owners are giving good gun owners a bad name.

Either one you make it harder for idiots to get guns or you limit what said idiot can get. That are the options.

Might I suggest that people that love their guns push for change that you can live with. If I were you I would be yelling from the rooftops for better background checks and everything else.

Pick your poison with this because it has to change. I am tired of mass shooting. Our children should not be scared going to school.

And yes a shotgun is great for home protection.

The noise will make people run to the door before you ever have to shoot.

The constitution was purposely written so that no one can decide who is an idiot and who isn't and restrict rights based upon that determination.

That should make you happy instead of motivating you to change it.

I love my guns as much as I love my hammers. I own them in approximately equal numbers.

The idea that "racking" a shotgun will scare off someone who is committing a home invasion is a bit ludicrous.

First, not all shotguns are pump action.

Second, the loud noise you see in movies when the actors rack a shotgun is a sound effect. Racking a well maintained, quality pump action shotgun doesn't make much noise.

Third, your home defense shotgun should have a round chambered. If you don't, you lose a large percentage of your capacity or if you have one chambered and rack it out, you again lose a large percentage of your capacity.

The most effective method of scaring a home intruder with a pump action shotgun is to fire that first round at him instead of racking it on to the floor of your living room.

 

[Zardnok]

Biden, as well as most politicians on both sides, comes off as clueless about guns and gun control measures. He likely said 9mm because that is what the gang-bangers hang out the window during drive-bys.

I have a .45 and a 9mm with a number of 18 round magazines for home defense; when Clinton banned extended magazines, I bought all of them I could find. I also have a double barrel shotgun, but the wife didn't like it leaning in the bedroom corner and made me put it back in the case.

 

[The moose]

The constitution was purposely written so that no one can decide who is an idiot and who isn't and restrict rights based upon that determination.

That should make you happy instead of motivating you to change it.

I love my guns as much as I love my hammers. I own them in approximately equal numbers.

The idea that "racking" a shotgun will scare off someone who is committing a home invasion is a bit ludicrous.

First, not all shotguns are pump action.

Second, the loud noise you see in movies when the actors rack a shotgun is a sound effect. Racking a well maintained, quality pump action shotgun doesn't make much noise.

Third, your home defense shotgun should have a round chambered. If you don't, you lose a large percentage of your capacity or if you have one chambered and rack it out, you again lose a large percentage of your capacity.

The most effective method of scaring a home intruder with a pump action shotgun is to fire that first round at him instead of racking it on to the floor of your living room.

I guess you just showed why you don't want gun restrictions.

If you are fighting for the idiots rights making good gun owners look bad that says a ton.

I guess you are afraid of testing and background stuff [MOD EDIT: discuss the subject and not the poster- LameDuck]?

 

[The moose]

Biden, as well as most politicians on both sides, comes off as clueless about guns and gun control measures. He likely said 9mm because that is what the gang-bangers hang out the window during drive-bys.

I have a .45 and a 9mm with a number of 18 round magazines for home defense; when Clinton banned extended magazines, I bought all of them I could find. I also have a double barrel shotgun, but the wife didn't like it leaning in the bedroom corner and made me put it back in the case.

With multiple 18 round clips you must not be a good shot?

Or you think you are gonna have 72 people bum rush your house at once?

What do you do where you would be be bum rushed? Make meth?

 

[reubenray]

With multiple 18 round clips you must not be a good shot?

Or you think you are gonna have 72 people bum rush your house at once?

What do you do where you would be be bum rushed? Make meth?

Zombies

 

[SystemShock]

1. Low capacity of rounds (which may be offset by the fact it's easier to hit what you are aiming at the first time).

If you don't know how to shoot and/or panic, "low round capacity" is relative. My shotgun has 5 in the tube, 11 in 2 saddles. If I can stop the fight with that, that means the SWAT raided me and I was screwed to begin with..

2. Recoil management. Probably not too much of an issue for you, but for women and children it can be a huge issue. If you are going with a shotgun for other members of the family, skip Joe's advice and get a 20 guage youth model.

Same can be said of any type of gun.

3. Maneuvarbility. This is a big issue depending on your environment. Going through doorways with a long shotgun is pretty damn dangerous - if someone gets a hand on the barrel and they have had training, they will take it away from you.

If they have had training and you haven't, no matter what you are using, you are screwed. If someone gets their hand on the barrel and they have training, it doesn't matter if the barrel is 18" or 14" or 6" as you are going through a doorway.

 

[Zardnok]

With multiple 18 round clips you must not be a good shot?

Or you think you are gonna have 72 people bum rush your house at once?

What do you do where you would be be bum rushed? Make meth?

Honestly, I am not that good a shot with a pistol. Last year I had two skunks in my side yard and blew through 18 rounds from about 20 yards away before both of them stopped moving. Afterwards I realized I just wasted $25 of ammo for two varmints and swapped over to the 12 gauge. One $5 box of #6 squirrel shot and my skunk problem was eradicated. The smell was much less as well since the skunks simply bounced about 3 inches and were dead.

The 18 round magazines were more for fun and because Bill Clinton told me I couldn't have them. Same way AR sales went up when Obama was in office, folks were worried they would lose their ability to buy them, so they bought them before they were banned. Same reason any gun control measures now are difficult, there are too many guns already in the hands of the populace. I am not one to advocate removing those guns, nor am I an advocate for putting people on a list or registering all of their guns. I honestly don't know what the solution is, but something needs to happen to stop angst riddled teens from getting access and shooting up schools.

My new neighborhood is about 25% law enforcement with two state troopers living across the street and a sheriff just around the corner, so not much meth cooking going on here. If I am getting bum-rushed, it is likely because of my barbecue cooking and the smell of ribs or brisket wafting through the air.

 

[Infoman]

Yeah, Biden's lack of knowledge on this subject is fairly obvious here, and IMO... disqualifies his opinion on it.

I am also ex-military, and a gun owner... I would also like to see a realistic opinion on how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable... As most gun deaths are not one person shooting another with a military style weapon, high capacity weapon, or any specific calibers or round type...

The vast majority gun deaths in America are (Male) suicides...

If there is a realistic option to keeping guns away from the mentally unstable without infringing on my 2nd amendment rights with arbitrary pointless broad sweeping legislation... I'm listening... but so far I haven't heard any of that from anyone...

(Who gets to define who a "bad guy" - "mentally unstable" - "unfit to own a weapon" person is? And what's that definition?)

Also, the reason I have many weapons, weapons types, and varying high and low capacity ammunition mags... is not because of some delusion that I will be attacked by an Army in my home... Not because I plan to start a revolution... Not because I intent to become a drug dealer.... And certainly not because I can't shoot...

It's actually not for any reason I can think of (not that I need a reason in America)... It's for the un-thinkable reasons I can not think of that I own them.

 

[The moose]

Yeah, Biden's lack of knowledge on this subject is fairly obvious here, and IMO... disqualifies his opinion on it.

I am also ex-military, and a gun owner... I would also like to see a realistic opinion on how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable... As most gun deaths are not one person shooting another with a military style weapon, high capacity weapon, or any specific calibers or round type...

The vast majority gun deaths in America are (Male) suicides...

If there is a realistic option to keeping guns away from the mentally unstable without infringing on my 2nd amendment rights with arbitrary pointless broad sweeping legislation... I'm listening... but so far I haven't heard any of that from anyone...

(Who gets to define who a "bad guy" - "mentally unstable" - "unfit to own a weapon" person is? And what's that definition?)

Also, the reason I have many weapons, weapons types, and varying high and low capacity ammunition mags... is not because of some delusion that I will be attacked by an Army in my home... Not because I plan to start a revolution... Not because I intent to become a drug dealer.... And certainly not because I can't shoot...

It's actually not for any reason I can think of (not that I need a reason in America)... It's for the un-thinkable reasons I can not think of that I own them.

Dude the only way to keep guns from most of the unstable is to have real tests real background stuff done.

Plain and simple.

I don't see how people like you a trained gun owner is not fighting for this opposed to fighting it?

You know as well as anyone that they are not a something that should be in unstable humans hands if at all possible.

What is the problem with that?

 

[Infoman]

Dude the only way to keep guns from most of the unstable is to have real tests real background stuff done.

Plain and simple.

I don't see how people like you a trained gun owner is not fighting for this opposed to fighting it?

You know as well as anyone that they are not a something that should be in unstable humans hands if at all possible.

What is the problem with that?

Who said I was fighting against better background checks to keep guns our of the hands of unstable minds? I sure didn't.

In fact, I asked for a "realistic opinion" on it... my issue is (as I said)...

Who gets to define who a "bad guy" - "mentally unstable" - "unfit to own a weapon" person is? And what's that definition?

Because the answer to THAT question, and the definition that follows, can be the difference between a sensible gun laws - and the potential gestapo in disguise... so I am going to need more than "trust me" - "more laws" - "red flags" - back ground checks" chants from the super trusty guys on capital hill.

 

[Beach Friends]

If you don't know how to shoot and/or panic, "low round capacity" is relative. My shotgun has 5 in the tube, 11 in 2 saddles. If I can stop the fight with that, that means the SWAT raided me and I was screwed to begin with..


Same can be said of any type of gun.


If they have had training and you haven't, no matter what you are using, you are screwed. If someone gets their hand on the barrel and they have training, it doesn't matter if the barrel is 18" or 14" or 6" as you are going through a wall.

1. For a lot of people the motor skills needed to reload that shotgun are going to be greatly diminished under pressure. But, I don't have too much of an issue with this because the average person who can handle a shotgun is going to be able to more effectively put rounds on target than they would with the most likely alternative, a pistol.

2. The difference in recoil between a 12 guage shotgun and a .223 is dramatic. I know it's not going to be that big of a deal for you or I, but for a smaller person it can be.

3. I am not sure what you mean by being put through a wall.

I am talking about the risk of walking around corners etc with a long gun in your hand.
First, it's a lot easier for someone to get his hand on the barrel of a long gun than a handgun. Second, it's a lot easier to rip that shotgun out of someone's hands without taking a round.

Like I said before, there are advantages and disadvantages. I am giving the disadvantages.

 

[Beach Friends]

Who said I was fighting against better background checks to keep guns our of the hands of unstable minds? I sure didn't.

In fact, I asked for a "realistic opinion" on it... my issue is (as I said)...

Who gets to define who a "bad guy" - "mentally unstable" - "unfit to own a weapon" person is? And what's that definition?

Because the answer to THAT question, and the definition that follows, can be the difference between a sensible gun laws - and the potential gestapo in disguise... so I am going to need more than "trust me" - "more laws" - "red flags" - back ground checks" chants from the super trusty guys on capital hill.

The red flag laws concern me more than outlawing specific weapons.

The potential for abuse of those laws is pretty obvious when one thinks about it.