Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[Incumbent]

Right. Biden certainly could be a better leader on the Gaza mess. That said, it's an election year, for better or worse, and he's not going to rock the boat too much.

I will say that while it's easy for us to say they're two separate issues, for the President, it's all a factor for him as a candidate. I think most here understand and even acknowledge that Israel has gone too far, and they need to slow their roll. They also understand that a Trump presidency isn't a choice. Both are true.

What I'm hoping for is either a peace deal is in place before the electio, or, Biden goes hard after Bibi after he's reelected.

I’d like to see Biden hold Netanyahu more accountable but whether we’re comfortable with this truth or not, we know very little of what is going on.

I’ve held the belief that early demonstrations of U.S. might were instrumental in keeping this from quickly becoming a regional war - a threat that remains - and possibly a global conflict. It might sound good to abandon Israel but I believe that would be a serious mistake for a region already mired in war and instability.

 

[DaveXA]

I’d like to see Biden hold Netanyahu more accountable but whether we’re comfortable with this truth or not, we know very little of what is going on.

I’ve held the belief that early demonstrations of U.S. might were instrumental in keeping this from quickly becoming a regional war - a threat that remains - and possibly a global conflict. It might sound good to abandon Israel but I believe that would be a serious mistake for a region already mired in war and instability.

Right, I have no doubt WW3 would be in full swing now had we just left Israel to their own devices.

And I agree most of us more than likely have no clue what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Incumbent]

Right, I have no doubt WW3 would be in full swing now had we just left Israel to their own devices.

And I agree most of us more than likely have no clue what's going on behind the scenes.

Right. I’m just hoping we can still avoid that outcome.

On another note, I’m heavily inclined to believe there are other forces behind this war. It wouldn’t have taken much to prod Hamas into launching an attack so shocking that it would lead to a predictably devastating response from Israel, and knowing the irrationality of both sides, the implications that would have in global politics.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Right, I have no doubt WW3 would be in full swing now had we just left Israel to their own devices.

And I agree most of us more than likely have no clue what's going on behind the scenes.

Two things...

1. I don't think anyone here advocated leaving Israel to defend itself alone, at least initially. What has been stated is that they shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod as they have. They've slowing becoming what they're fighting against.

2. Israel is no weakling nation. They are a nuclear-capable sovereign.

 

[samiam5211]

Leahy Law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Laws only matter when it is convient for us.

 

[DaveXA]

Two things...

1. I don't think anyone here advocated leaving Israel to defend itself alone, at least initially. What has been stated is that they shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod as they have. They've slowing becoming what they're fighting against.

Some have, but yeah, most haven't. I had earlier responded to a poster who specifically we should completely cut ties with Israel. I don't think most believe we should.

I think just about all of us here agree Israel has gone too far in their response to the horrific attack by Hamas in October.

2. Israel is no weakling nation. They are a nuclear-capable sovereign.

Certainly. I do think that they won't last very long with a go it alone approach, even with nukes. They lob nukes, they're condemning their entire country to death. It would only require a handful of well placed nukes to completely destroy Israel. I don't think Israel would use nukes unless they got nuked first.

I could be wrong tho.

 

[Dragon]

I was one of the first in this thread to critizie Israel for not only going too far, but also because of their treatment of the palestinian population for years. BUT - the only way to have any kind of influence on what happens is to continue talks and Biden has been very critical of the current Israeli leadership and I think he is going to be even more demanding going forward. Yes Israel did get aid along with other countries - Ukraine first and foremost. My feeling was that the aid to Ukraine would not have passed congress without similar aid to Israel. If that was the case - and giving the current situation in Ukraine and the urgency - My belief is that Biden believes that it would be easier to sanktion Israel later than seeing Ukraine lost and the potential escalation of the war in Europe to the Baltics. Not a perfect solution at all but a hard choice and unfortunately a choice leaders sometimes have to make.

 

[samiam5211]

 

[zztop]

A look at the protests about the war in Gaza that have emerged on US college campuses

Student protests over the Israel-Hamas war have popped up on an increasing number of U.S. college campuses following last week’s arrest of more than 100 demonstrators at Columbia University.

apnews.com

College protests over Israel's war in Gaza continue following hundreds of arrests

Students across the country continued to protest Israel's war in Gaza at major universities following hundreds of arrests.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Heathen]

 

[zztop]

Columbia University has a doxxing problem

The threat of online harassment looms over the student encampment.

www.theverge.com

 

[zztop]

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Bill O'Reilly says that the protests are mostly flowing out of blast emails from "anarchists".
Here him in his own words...
*

 

[Heathen]

O’Reilly, what a goon

 

[LA - L.A.]

Bill O'Reilly says that the protests are mostly flowing out of blast emails from "anarchists".
Here him in his own words...

Just some of the reasons no one should ever believe a word Bill O'Reilly says:

What Compelled O'Reilly and Williams to Make Up War Stories?

When news and entertainment collide...

newrepublic.com

O'Reilly Lied About Suicide Of JFK Assassination Figure, Former Colleagues Say

www.mediamatters.org

Bill O’Reilly Lies—but Some Lies Matter More Than Others

When Fox News' Bill O'Reilly said that NBC's Brian Williams "had to go" because he manufactured stories about dangers he faced in his reporting career, it should come as no surprise to find out that O'Reilly can be found doing the exact same thing.

fair.org

99 Bill O'Reilly lies

The longtime face of Fox News, ladies and gentlemen.

www.dailydot.com

NEWS FLASH: BILL O'REILLY CAUGHT TELLING LIES! | Scanners | Roger Ebert

Look, it's somebody lying on the TV. Yeah, I know. Stop the presses. A more startling headline might be: "Dog eats food!" It's not news that self-proclaimed morality guardian Bill O'Reilly is a source of misinformation next to whom the Weekly World News looks like a Pulitzer contender. Bat Boy...

www.rogerebert.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

Claims of chants at college protests calling for "Jewish genocide" appear to be false:

A chant used at anti-Israel protests on two college campuses does not call for ‘Jewish genocide’

Social media users are sharing videos they claim show college students calling for the extermination of Jewish people as they protest the Israel-Hamas war on campuses across the country.

apnews.com

But the anti-Israel chants heard during the pro-Palestine rallies are being misquoted, Jewish and Palestinian groups say.

The protestors are actually chanting, “Israel, Israel, you can’t hide: We charge you with genocide,” the Anti-Defamation League, which frequently speaks out against anti-Semitism and extremism, confirmed in an email Tuesday.

How antisemitic can the college protests be when students who are Jewish are taking part in the protests?

Jewish student explains why he’s supporting pro-Palestinian protest at UCLA | CNN

UCLA student Benjamin Kersten explains why he and many others are supporting a pro-Palestinian protest on campus. CNN’s Camila Bernal reports.

www.cnn.com

 

[MT15]

Claims of chants at college protests calling for "Jewish genocide" appear to be false:

A chant used at anti-Israel protests on two college campuses does not call for ‘Jewish genocide’

Social media users are sharing videos they claim show college students calling for the extermination of Jewish people as they protest the Israel-Hamas war on campuses across the country.

apnews.com

How antisemitic can the college protests be when students who are Jewish are taking part in the protests?

Jewish student explains why he’s supporting pro-Palestinian protest at UCLA | CNN

UCLA student Benjamin Kersten explains why he and many others are supporting a pro-Palestinian protest on campus. CNN’s Camila Bernal reports.

www.cnn.com

This is reassuring to hear. I think the protests and responses vary widely.

We have two major colleges in our state currently protesting with camp outs. One the board hastily outlawed camping the night before the rally and has done mass arrests. Oh, and a sniper was seen stationed on the roof of the Student Union. The other admin has coordinated with student groups and campus police - as long as there isn’t property damage or harassment of others they will be allowed to have their encampment. Faculty has joined the protests from time to time, though I’m not sure they are camping out. A study in contrasts. I’m heartened by the way the second university has responded. BTW, in this state the first campus is thought of as more liberal than the second campus. Everything is not always as it seems.

 

[MT15]

I did see videos of protestors harassing Jewish students and video of a man addressing one protest who said that the October attack warmed every fiber of his heart. So there are abuses as well and we shouldn’t pretend that every protest is entirely without issues. It’s good to set the record straight, though.