Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

I did see videos of protestors harassing Jewish students and video of a man addressing one protest who said that the October attack warmed every fiber of his heart. So there are abuses as well and we shouldn’t pretend that every protest is entirely without issues. It’s good to set the record straight, though.

Protests are a group of individuals. Those individuals don't all have the same exact beliefs and intentions. I would be surprised if every protest doesn't have some problematic and extreme individuals involved.

My point was that the organized, unified chants were not what some in the press and on social medium claimed they were.

 

[Heathen]

Israel, US said working to prevent ICC arrest warrant against Netanyahu

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

Israel, US said working to prevent ICC arrest warrant against Netanyahu

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

My hope, and what I think is likely, is that the US is using this to pressure Israel into ceasing it's human rights violations. Netanyahu needs the US's help with this, so it gives the US a lot of leverage over Netanyahu.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Israel, US said working to prevent ICC arrest warrant against Netanyahu

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Why? The U.S. isn't a part and can't be a part of the ICC anyway. Let them do their work. If they feel Bibi needs a warrant, so be it. Neither nation would abide by it anyway. Sometimes it's tough not seeing the U.S. as Israel's birch instead of being the controlling pimp.

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[efil4]

Russia takes any and every opportunity to create chaos. It's not a neocon view, it's legitimately happening. The problem is when Greenwald and others attempt to downplay the subversion to make it all about the war mongers/defense contractors.

How Russia's disinformation campaign seeps into US views

Researchers say Kremlin talking points are being repeated in US as lawmakers debate $60 billion in aid for Ukraine

www.voanews.com

 

[Heathen]

“Remember, Hamas is a terrorist organization”

And just what is the IDF, Nancy?

Lol FFS

 

[UriUT]

 

[LA - L.A.]

My thoughts on these videos.

The above video looks like the typical selective video editing that is a classic agitprop technique. We don't know what was said between him and the woman before the point where the video clip starts or what was said after.

Typically, a heated exchange is instigated by the agitprop party, with the camera off, to get the other party agitated. Once the other party is agitated, the recording party starts recording and they start pretending to be innocent and civil for the cameras, to make the other party look bad.

Only the people that witnessed the full exchange, from when that dude arrived to when he left, know what actually happened.

My personal opinion is that anyone who shows up to record themselves waving an opposition flag at a rally is looking for a rhetorical or physical fight. Sure, it's their right, but I never trust that they are acting in good faith or honestly.

I never trust anything that they say or any of the videos that they share.

This kid in particular comes off extremely smarmy to me. He reminds me of James O'Keefe of Project Veritas.

There's visual evidence in the first 1/2 second of this video that he could have easily passed the through without incident, if that's what he honestly wanted.

There's plenty of room for him to have passed between the security guard and the first woman on the left.

But that's not what he does, because passing to go to class doesn't seem to be his honest intent.

Instead of just "going to class," he starts grandstanding about just wanting to go to class while in front of a camera that didn't just spontaneously start recording him. This video was planned and staged by him and his cohorts. There's nothing natural or organic about it.

In his first "attempt" to pass the people to "go to class," he steps directly into the first woman on the left, instead of stepping to the side of her. He could have easily stepped toward the security guard and passed the woman on the left.

He never makes a genuine ever to go around or through them, because that's not what he honestly wanted. He was grandstanding to make them look bad.

Look at how he had the, "see, this is what they do" argument loaded and how quickly he pulled the trigger on it. That was his whole intention, to be able to "show the world" how "these people" are.

That language should sound awfully familiar to everyone. He's doing the same BS that the Proud Boys and other white nationalist groups did to try to discredit BLM protestors and make them all look bad.

He stepped into the woman, because he wanted to force a confrontation, not to innocently go to class. He's an agitator using time tested video tactics.

Just like with James O'Keefe and Project Veritas, I don't trust anything this dude says or any of the videos he posts.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I can't get the image of the unfortunate uniform choices made by Texas state troopers. It was a failure by whoever had the final word on choosing these uniforms:

It's eerily too similar to the Nazi stormtrooper uniform:

T

 

[MT15]

I don’t believe these protests are organic in the sense that they are student-driven. I also do believe the outside agitators are causing the issues with Jewish students. I know that will upset people here who want to believe otherwise. We should be careful about confirmation bias in this issue.

I read that a Jewish student (at UCLA? I cannot remember) wanted to join the protest and was turned away because he said he does believe Israel has a right to exist. For that he was labeled a Zionist and made to leave. I also read that protestors at one location were blocking entrance to a library and requiring armbands that they were issuing to students after vetting their views in order to go in the library.

Evidence of non-student involvement:

 

[SaintForLife]

Russia takes any and every opportunity to create chaos. It's not a neocon view, it's legitimately happening. The problem is when Greenwald and others attempt to downplay the subversion to make it all about the war mongers/defense contractors.

How Russia's disinformation campaign seeps into US views

Researchers say Kremlin talking points are being repeated in US as lawmakers debate $60 billion in aid for Ukraine

www.voanews.com

It's without a doubt the neocon view. You are just so used to it that you don't see it.

Russia does that, but the United States is the world leader and its not even close.

 

[MT15]

“Remember, Hamas is a terrorist organization”

And just what is the IDF, Nancy?

Lol FFS

It doesn’t invalidate her point, though. All of this movement isn’t organic. To say it is just ignores facts. I’ve seen the protests move from being pro-cease fire to anti-Israel existing at all, and pro-Hamas. It started on-line with the help of US adversaries.

There are no doubt idealistic students involved, but the direction they are moving seems to be coordinated.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I read that a Jewish student (at UCLA? I cannot remember) wanted to join the protest and was turned away because he said he does believe Israel has a right to exist. For that he was labeled a Zionist and made to leave.

First things first, the protesters are not a single organism. They are individuals, so every story we hear individuals tell could be true.

Maybe the Jewish student was turned away by a group of individuals they encountered or maybe they're not telling the truth, but being turned away by some individuals is not the same thing as be turned away by the entire group of protesters.

I posted a clip in this thread of a Jewish student who had joined the protest and believes Israel has a right to exist. He also said a Jewish student group he belongs to has supports the protests. He could be telling the truth or it could be complete BS.

What I do know is that if the ADL says that groups weren't chanting for Israeli or Jewish genocide, then that's the truth. The ADL would not be deceptive about that.

I also read that protestors at one location were blocking entrance to a library and requiring armbands that they were issuing to students after vetting their views in order to go in the library.

There maybe some truth to that or it could be complete BS. As you said, don't let confirmation bias trip us up. Don't let it convince ourselves that we know things we don't know.

I think there's some truth to everything we hear.

Evidence of non-student involvement:

There's plenty of objective evidence that their are non-students involved, but there's also plenty of objective evidence that students are contributing to the planning of these protests. The protests are both driven by organic student efforts and non-students exploiting it for their own agendas. Both are true.

I think the arrests of non-students at the protests indicate that most of the extreme behavior around the protests is coming from people who aren't students.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Russia does that, but the United States is the world leader and its not even close.

Putin's Russia is by far the worst offender when it comes to spreading disinformation, involvement in the world's military conflicts, toppling governments and interfering in elections.

The US is not innocent of those things, but Putin's Russia is much more guilty, by light years.

 

[SaintForLife]

It doesn’t invalidate her point, though. All of this movement isn’t organic. To say it is just ignores facts. I’ve seen the protests move from being pro-cease fire to anti-Israel existing at all, and pro-Hamas. It started on-line with the help of US adversaries.

There are no doubt idealistic students involved, but the direction they are moving seems to be coordinated.

You'll never guess who's involved

 

[UriUT]

My thoughts on these videos.


The above video looks like the typical selective video editing that is a classic agitprop technique. We don't know what was said between him and the woman before the point where the video clip starts or what was said after.

Typically, a heated exchange is instigated by the agitprop party, with the camera off, to get the other party agitated. Once the other party is agitated, the recording party starts recording and they start pretending to be innocent and civil for the cameras, to make the other party look bad.

Only the people that witnessed the full exchange, from when that dude arrived to when he left, know what actually happened.

My personal opinion is that anyone who shows up to record themselves waving an opposition flag at a rally is looking for a rhetorical or physical fight. Sure, it's their right, but I never trust that they are acting in good faith or honestly.

I never trust anything that they say or any of the videos that they share.

This kid in particular comes off extremely smarmy to me. He reminds me of James O'Keefe of Project Veritas.


There's visual evidence in the first 1/2 second of this video that he could have easily passed the through without incident, if that's what he honestly wanted.

There's plenty of room for him to have passed between the security guard and the first woman on the left.

But that's not what he does, because passing to go to class doesn't seem to be his honest intent.

Instead of just "going to class," he starts grandstanding about just wanting to go to class while in front of a camera that didn't just spontaneously start recording him. This video was planned and staged by him and his cohorts. There's nothing natural or organic about it.

In his first "attempt" to pass the people to "go to class," he steps directly into the first woman on the left, instead of stepping to the side of her. He could have easily stepped toward the security guard and passed the woman on the left.

He never makes a genuine ever to go around or through them, because that's not what he honestly wanted. He was grandstanding to make them look bad.

Look at how he had the, "see, this is what they do" argument loaded and how quickly he pulled the trigger on it. That was his whole intention, to be able to "show the world" how "these people" are.

That language should sound awfully familiar to everyone. He's doing the same BS that the Proud Boys and other white nationalist groups did to try to discredit BLM protestors and make them all look bad.

He stepped into the woman, because he wanted to force a confrontation, not to innocently go to class. He's an agitator using time tested video tactics.

Just like with James O'Keefe and Project Veritas, I don't trust anything this dude says or any of the videos he posts.

Right it looks like the same guy, which makes the 2nd dubious.

 

[LA - L.A.]

It doesn’t invalidate her point, though. All of this movement isn’t organic. To say it is just ignores facts. I’ve seen the protests move from being pro-cease fire to anti-Israel existing at all, and pro-Hamas. It started on-line with the help of US adversaries.

There are no doubt idealistic students involved, but the direction they are moving seems to be coordinated.

The protestors are not all in lockstep with each other ideologically. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all of the protesters are getting equal private media attention. The most extreme get the most attention, because that gets to most clicks which generates the most income.

Don't get me started on how unreliable social media is as a source of accurate, complete, and unbiased information.

Just like it was a mistake to think the majority of BLM protestors were vandalizing and looting, it's a mistake to think that most of the protesters are anti-Israel existing and pro-Hamas.