Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

......................

Article 33 of the Geneva convention.

Not sure that would apply at this point. Maybe, but again I haven't heard anyone with the credentials to pass such a judgment, pass one.

 

[DaveXA]

Yes, I’m sure that is what was meant. I don’t think it matters anyway because I don’t think it was a free and fair election. I read that opponents were sometimes thrown off buildings. Do that a few times and your opposition just dries up.

Yep, they used their terror tactics on the population pretty much. If you publicly opposed them, you were living on borrowed time at that point.

 

[samiam5211]

Was this supposed to say "About 80% of the people who currently live in Gaza weren't of voting age when Hamas was elected."

Yes. I should have proofread it. Thanks.

 

[UriUT]

Not sure that would apply at this point. Maybe, but again I haven't heard anyone with the credentials to pass such a judgment, pass one.

You haven't seen the news of the attack on the lone power plant in Gaza?

 

[UriUT]

In my view the Israelis went from oppressed to oppressors when they were attacked frequently, hence an extremely poor choice for a homeland*. They faced war almost immediately. From then on in “our security mode”, they have oppressed the Palestinians to keep themselves secure and they have refused to address the Palestinian’s situation, which has become, “sorry this is your lot in life, so we can be safe”, not realizing, not caring, or thinking there is no other option for their security. They tossed the idea of a two State solution. This all goes back to the location of the Jewish State, a dreadful error that insured decades of strife, and death.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

It's all moot. The 6 million Jews are there to stay. And if they want peace, the only solution is a 2 state solution. In a one state solution, they can provide the Palestinians representation...which won't happen. or they continue to oppress and take more land. Or they can exterminate them?

Unfortunately,

Israelis have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution

Only 35% of Israelis believe that Israel and an independent Palestine can coexist peacefully, down from 44% in 2017.

www.pewresearch.org

Those far right orthodox Jews are butt crevasses. They are exempt from military service...as is required from all other israeli..and they stir up trouble...I'm going to assume the guy that killed the 19 yo Palestinian is a haredi jew from how he is dressed.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

You haven't seen the news of the attack on the lone power plant in Gaza?

I'm fully aware that Israel has shut off power, water, supplies, etc to Gaza. I'm also fully aware of the accusations that both Hamas and Israel have been breaking international law for years. If their actions reach the threshold of war crimes, I'm all for prosecuting them.

 

[V Chip]

Yes. I should have proofread it. Thanks.

I figured as much. Illogical reading it the other way but I like to confirm in any case.

(Additionally as mentioned the 2006 election wasn't even a majority and had lots of suggestions of irregularities...)

 

[UriUT]

I'm fully aware that Israel has shut off power, water, supplies, etc to Gaza. I'm also fully aware of the accusations that both Hamas and Israel have been breaking international law for years. If their actions reach the threshold of war crimes, I'm all for prosecuting them.

It's up to you to accept it, but it's clearly defined in the Geneva convention that those acts are considered war crimes...which was the query. If you think it's justifiable, that's your belief. As I said before, when the food and water runs out, those who had nothing to do with this will suffer.

And as was stated by our own def department, 24 hrs to move 1 million is a tall order...and it's undue burden, unrealistic really, to punish those not involved with the Hamas heinous attacks.

Collective punishment.

 

[MT15]

Just so much more disinformation than I have ever seen before.

 

[DaveXA]

It's up to you to accept it, but it's clearly defined in the Geneva convention that those acts are considered war crimes...which was the query. If you think it's justifiable, that's your belief. As I said before, when the food and water runs out, those who had nothing to do with this will suffer.

And as was stated by our own def department, 24 hrs to move 1 million is a tall order...and it's undue burden, unrealistic really, to punish those not involved with the Hamas heinous attacks.

Collective punishment.

Well, many already are migrating south and hopefully will have a way out when they get to the border. Egypt has to change their stance and allow the refugees to leave Gaza until hostilities end. I think the point of blockading is to put pressure on Hamas and motivating the Palestinians to get out of Gaza.

If they still had all those necessities, they're far more likely to not see any reason to leave and they get caught up in an invasion which would have far worse outcomes.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just suggesting the thinking that might be behind it.

 

[DaveXA]

Just so much more disinformation than I have ever seen before.

Yep, this morning there was a claim a missile hit and killed 70 people fleeing. When the video surfaced, it was clear the explosion was from an IED. Possibly from a vehicle as there was a white van near the center of the explosion. There's gonna be a lot of this over the next few weeks.

 

[Lapaz]

The population of the Gaza Strip exceeds two million people. I don't think what you're describing is feasible and I don't know how Israel could differentiate between Hamas and its backers and everybody else. Allow hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to cross into Israel after the terrorist attack last saturday? That's not going to happen.

Israel seems to have two options now:

-Cease operations, with Hamas still intact and in power

-Create safety zones in Gaza and take other precautions in an effort to minimize civilian casualties

It may seem infeasible, but your options won’t work. They can’t cease operations and allow Hamas to keep its weapons.

If they create safe zones, Hamas will operate from the safe zones. Also, those zones are only safe if they have services and shelters. Otherwise many will die in these “safe” zones.

 

[DaveXA]

It may seem infeasible, but your options won’t work. They can’t cease operations and allow Hamas to keep its weapons.

If they create safe zones, Hamas will operate from the safe zones. Also, those zones are only safe if they have services and shelters. Otherwise many will die in these “safe” zones.

Agreed, there aren't any safe zones in Gaza. They would need to be allowed to cross into Egypt. And I know it sucks for Egypt, but they have to bite the bullet here and allow passage. I don't see how you can sit there and allow 2 million people to remain trapped in southern Gaza. I do hope Israel gives them enough time to get out before starting the invasion.

The toughest part will be weeding out Hamas fighters trying to flee. You can't allow them to stay and regain power after all this is done.

 

[Lapaz]

Well, many already are migrating south and hopefully will have a way out when they get to the border. Egypt has to change their stance and allow the refugees to leave Gaza until hostilities end. I think the point of blockading is to put pressure on Hamas and motivating the Palestinians to get out of Gaza.

If they still had all those necessities, they're far more likely to not see any reason to leave and they get caught up in an invasion which would have far worse outcomes.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just suggesting the thinking that might be behind it.

I don’t think Egypt has to accept anything. They are not a party to this war. Now we can ask them to allow humanitarian aid to be passed over their border. Even if they don’t, we can pass humanitarian aid from the sea, so Egypt doesn’t really have to get involved.

 

[Incumbent]

It may seem infeasible, but your options won’t work. They can’t cease operations and allow Hamas to keep its weapons.If they create safe zones, Hamas will operate from the safe zones. Also, those zones are only safe if they have services and shelters. Otherwise many will die in these “safe” zones.

There aren’t any good options, if we’re being honest. I can’t see Israel taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees - as you suggested - so it has to be figured out some other way.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

It's up to you to accept it, but it's clearly defined in the Geneva convention that those acts are considered war crimes...which was the query. If you think it's justifiable, that's your belief. As I said before, when the food and water runs out, those who had nothing to do with this will suffer.

And as was stated by our own def department, 24 hrs to move 1 million is a tall order...and it's undue burden, unrealistic really, to punish those not involved with the Hamas heinous attacks.

Collective punishment.

"It's up to you to accept it,.........."

No, it's not up to me. It's up to those who can prosecute or not.

Again, the question is how long will the international community stand by and watch as a war is being fought in one of the most densely populated areas in the world between two such disparate combatants? It doesn't look like very long, but we will see.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Not sure that would apply at this point. Maybe, but again I haven't heard anyone with the credentials to pass such a judgment, pass one.

Who in your mind has the credentials to pass such a judgment on war crimes?

In this post you seem to support Ukraine accusing Russia of war crimes. https://madaboutpolitics.com/threads/is-russia-about-to-invade-ukraine.183210/post-301846

What non-Hamas Palestinian authorities exist and the UN have said that collective punishment, denying water, food, power and other essentials, to millions of non-combatant civilians is a violation of the Geneva convention and therefore a war crime.

What higher, credentialed authority are you waiting to hear from?

 

[LA - L.A.]

Egypt has to change their stance and allow the refugees to leave Gaza..,

Why doesn't Israel have to show more restraint?