Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[Heathen]

Just a reminder that thousands of aid trucks currently sit outside Gaza on the Egyptian side where Israeli forces refuse to let them in as they continue to kill children in Rafah in their sleep:



Remember, forced starvation can be considered an act of genocide if the intent is to destroy in whole or part a specific group. Otherwise? The Genocide Convention is pointless as is agreement upon what meets the criterion. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf?t

That’s literally what’s been happening for month after month after month. So yes, western media and the US govt. will continue to push that what’s happening in Gaza “isn’t genocide”, clearly because of having conflicting interests, despite having all information to the contrary.

In case you forgot… The US came out and said what has happened in Ukraine does amount to genocide, but said they don’t have evidence that it’s happening in Gaza.

So let’s put it simply: Either the US knows something beyond the definition that scholars who have studied genocidal acts and other war crimes around the world don’t, or the US is purposefully lying.

Also interesting reading:

Civilian deaths in Gaza rival those of Darfur – which the US called a ‘genocide’ | Alan J Kuperman

In fact, terror attacks and hostage-taking sparked several recent conflicts that US presidents of both parties labeled genocide

www.theguardian.com

 

[Heathen]

 

[Neworleansfan]

The news a few days ago about pausing weapon shipments was lip service.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

The news a few days ago about pausing weapon shipments was lip service.

Yep

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So forked up reading this, especially seeing law enforcement standing by doing nothing. Bunch of forking cowards.

Unmasking counterprotesters who attacked UCLA’s pro-Palestine encampment | CNN

Unmasking counterprotesters who attacked UCLA’s pro-Palestine encampment

www.cnn.com

 

[SamAndreas]

The news a few days ago about pausing weapon shipments was lip service.

Was it lip service?

Biden did what he said he was going to do. He keeps doing that.

 

[Heathen]

Was it lip service?

Biden did what he said he was going to do. He keeps doing that.

Oh, so it was a play on words?

 

[SamAndreas]

Oh, so it was a play on words?

No, my user name is a play on words, this is case of a bias narrative having been created out of thin air to take an unnecessary "friendly fire" swipe at Joe Biden and his administration, who as it happens to be better win this next election or there will be four kinds of hell to pay.

 

[Heathen]

No, my user name is a play on words, this is case of a bias narrative having been created out of thin air to take an unnecessary "friendly fire" swipe at Joe Biden and his administration, who as it happens to be better win this next election or there will be four kinds of hell to pay.

Not tracking. What, exactly, is a “case of bias”?

The point of the “play on words” comment was that the Biden admin paused one shipment one week and said they wouldn’t continue to send weaponry to Israel if they “go into Rafah”.

Well, by the time that comment was made - they’d already gone into Rafah, slaughtering more kids.

So for the US to say they wouldn’t continue sending weapons IF Israel went into Rafah , which was already highly questionable since they had already been there killing innocents - then to do that very thing to the tune of $1 Billion USD 6 days later.. makes those original comments about restricting weaponry feel rather hollow. If these aid packages to our allies committing genocide are standard protocol and this package was coming either way, why even come out and say you’re trying to stop the carnage days before sending more aid to continue the carnage — when pausing the shipment of 3,500 bombs has been and is now only a drop in the bucket?

It just looks bad, man. Real cringy type of bad.

Make sense?

 

[SamAndreas]

Not tracking. What, exactly, is a “case of bias”?

The point of the “play on words” comment was that the Biden admin paused one shipment one week and said they wouldn’t continue to send weaponry to Israel if they “go into Rafah”.

Well, by the time that comment was made - they’d already gone into Rafah, slaughtering more kids.

So for the US to say they wouldn’t continue sending weapons IF Israel went into Rafah , which was already highly questionable since they had already been there killing innocents - then to do that very thing to the tune of $1 Billion USD 6 days later.. makes those original comments about restricting weaponry feel rather hollow. If these aid packages to our allies committing genocide are standard protocol and this package was coming either way, why even come out and say you’re trying to stop the carnage days before sending more aid to continue the carnage — when pausing the shipment of 3,500 bombs has been and is now only a drop in the bucket?

It just looks bad, man. Real cringy type of bad.

Make sense?

The Internet says, "Narrative bias refers to the tendency of a narrator or author to present events, characters, or information in a subjective manner that aligns with their own perspective or agenda. It can influence the reader's understanding and interpretation of the story. : The narrator is the voice or character that tells a story."

That's about the way I was using it. That Democracy Now is a poor source unless what a person is looking for are things which are shrill. They're on my side, but I don't care for the distortions they use to press their position.

I have not seen a reasonable report about that latest claim about the $1 Billion. I suspect that it might be a case that it's either a ordinary arms purchase that israel had in the works, or it was something covered under laws which would have lead to a lawsuit the administration would not win if it came to a head.

You might not have to follow the law, but Joe Biden is compelled to do so. I trust him to know what he can do, and what he can't do.

 

[Heathen]

The Internet says, "Narrative bias refers to the tendency of a narrator or author to present events, characters, or information in a subjective manner that aligns with their own perspective or agenda. It can influence the reader's understanding and interpretation of the story. : The narrator is the voice or character that tells a story."

That's about the way I was using it. That Democracy Now is a poor source unless what a person is looking for are things which are shrill. They're on my side, but I don't care for the distortions they use to press their position.

I’m curious to know what news source is one that from your view is not a “poor news source”.

Also, please cite said “distortions” of the article you accuse of being such a source.

We all view things through our own filters.

I have not seen a reasonable report about that latest claim about the $1 Billion. I suspect that it might be a case that it's either a ordinary arms purchase that israel had in the works, or it was something covered under laws which would have lead to a lawsuit the administration would not win if it came to a head.

I think it’d be helpful if you reference the claim you’re referring to. Otherwise this could be taken many ways.

You might not have to follow the law, but Joe Biden is compelled to do so. I trust him to know what he can do, and what he can't do.

Well you do know me, Sam. Just an outlaw at heart. Ain’t nothin more I like than sticking’ it to the law.

But seriously - it’s not a matter of what someone can or can’t do. It’s a matter of if what they are doing despite their power is just, is fair, is moral. The US and countries around the world like Israel have taken what they technically “can do” and committed horrific acts. Much like what is happening as you read this - to children in Gaza.

 

[SamAndreas]

I’m curious to know what news source is one that from your view is not a “poor news source”.

Also, please cite said “distortions” of the article you accuse of being such a source.

We all view things through our own filters.



I think it’d be helpful if you reference the claim you’re referring to. Otherwise this could be taken many ways.



Well you do know me, Sam. Just an outlaw at heart. Ain’t nothin more I like than sticking’ it to the law.

But seriously - it’s not a matter of what someone can or can’t do. It’s a matter of if what they are doing despite their power is just, is fair, is moral. The US and countries around the world like Israel have taken what they technically “can do” and committed horrific acts. Much like what is happening as you read this - to children in Gaza.

Wire stories are generally good, Ruiters, AP, and many others. Most countries have one. Papers of rehord are good even when their editorial department sucks boulders.

Being shrill is and always what has been what causes me to set it aside. I don't click on their links. Anyway shrill is a thing which is hard to pin down through citing a source.

It would be like me pointing somewhere and saying "see the snipe." You would say no, no I don't see it. I would then say there, point another direction, and say the snipe it it moved there. You would say ah I missed it again.

(I know what you will say because I got it rigged.)

 

[Lapaz]

Has Israel offered to end the war, not just for a few weeks, if they get their hostages back? I get that Israel claims it will not stop until Hamas’ military capability is eliminated, but that is undoubtedly going to cause huge civilian deaths, which will create many more terrorists, and will only be temporary, because Hamas or the angry population will re-arm somewhere. Clearly the hostages are the only leverage Hamas has to end the war. I’ve only heard about temporary cease fire for humanitarian aid, but that’s hypocritical of they will follow that with an attack that will kill many civilians. Israel should offer to end the war without completely killing Hamas, but keep open the prospect of attacking again if provoked. Ideally there will be peacekeepers installed in Gaza eventually, but that hurdle is delaying the peace. If Hamas attacks again after the release of the hostages, then Israel should attack those sites, but they should use precision weapons, rather than the WMDs.

 

[samiam5211]

Has Israel offered to end the war, not just for a few weeks, if they get their hostages back? I get that Israel claims it will not stop until Hamas’ military capability is eliminated, but that is undoubtedly going to cause huge civilian deaths, which will create many more terrorists, and will only be temporary, because Hamas or the angry population will re-arm somewhere. Clearly the hostages are the only leverage Hamas has to end the war. I’ve only heard about temporary cease fire for humanitarian aid, but that’s hypocritical of they will follow that with an attack that will kill many civilians. Israel should offer to end the war without completely killing Hamas, but keep open the prospect of attacking again if provoked. Ideally there will be peacekeepers installed in Gaza eventually, but that hurdle is delaying the peace. If Hamas attacks again after the release of the hostages, then Israel should attack those sites, but they should use precision weapons, rather than the WMDs.

I don't think this has ever been about the hostages to the government of Israel.

Israel views the hostages as human shields.

 

[SamAndreas]

I don't think this has ever been about the hostages to the government of Israel.

Israel views the hostages as human shields.

Sam to Sam here, I suggest you read Catch 22, wait, wait, I got all mixed up what I meant to say is Numbers 22, in the bible.

In my view Catch 22 is a direct allegory of Numbers 22 in the bible. Read it from the bible for this, it's just a few pages that way.

If you want read Catch 22 as well, I sure liked it. It can read in as an allegory for this situation as well.

Here's Numbers 22, I think it will explain why they (the frum Orthodox Israelis) are as they are.

Now what the heck do we do to change this?

Balak Summons Balaam​

22 Then the Israelites traveled to the plains of Moab and camped along the Jordan across from Jericho.

2 Now Balak son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites, 3 and Moab was terrified because there were so many people. Indeed, Moab was filled with dread because of the Israelites.

4 The Moabites said to the elders of Midian, “This horde is going to lick up everything around us, as an ox licks up the grass of the field.”

So Balak son of Zippor, who was king of Moab at that time, 5 sent messengers to summon Balaam son of Beor, who was at Pethor, near the Euphrates River, in his native land. Balak said:

“A people has come out of Egypt; they cover the face of the land and have settled next to me. 6 Now come and put a curse on these people, because they are too powerful for me. Perhaps then I will be able to defeat them and drive them out of the land. For I know that whoever you bless is blessed, and whoever you curse is cursed.”
7 The elders of Moab and Midian left, taking with them the fee for divination. When they came to Balaam, they told him what Balak had said.

8 “Spend the night here,” Balaam said to them, “and I will report back to you with the answer the Lord gives me.” So the Moabite officials stayed with him.

9 God came to Balaam and asked, “Who are these men with you?”

10 Balaam said to God, “Balak son of Zippor, king of Moab, sent me this message: 11 ‘A people that has come out of Egypt covers the face of the land. Now come and put a curse on them for me. Perhaps then I will be able to fight them and drive them away.’”

12 But God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them. You must not put a curse on those people, because they are blessed.”

13 The next morning Balaam got up and said to Balak’s officials, “Go back to your own country, for the Lord has refused to let me go with you.”

14 So the Moabite officials returned to Balak and said, “Balaam refused to come with us.”

15 Then Balak sent other officials, more numerous and more distinguished than the first. 16 They came to Balaam and said:

“This is what Balak son of Zippor says: Do not let anything keep you from coming to me, 17 because I will reward you handsomely and do whatever you say. Come and put a curse on these people for me.”
18 But Balaam answered them, “Even if Balak gave me all the silver and gold in his palace, I could not do anything great or small to go beyond the command of the Lord my God. 19 Now spend the night here so that I can find out what else the Lord will tell me.”

20 That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, go with them, but do only what I tell you.”

Balaam’s Donkey​

21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. 22 But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.

24 Then the angel of the Lord stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. 25 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.

26 Then the angel of the Lord moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. 28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”

29 Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”

30 The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?”

“No,” he said.

31 Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.

32 The angel of the Lord asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me.[a] 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”

34 Balaam said to the angel of the Lord, “I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back.”

35 The angel of the Lord said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you.” So Balaam went with Balak’s officials.

36 When Balak heard that Balaam was coming, he went out to meet him at the Moabite town on the Arnon border, at the edge of his territory. 37 Balak said to Balaam, “Did I not send you an urgent summons? Why didn’t you come to me? Am I really not able to reward you?”

38 “Well, I have come to you now,” Balaam replied. “But I can’t say whatever I please. I must speak only what God puts in my mouth.”

39 Then Balaam went with Balak to Kiriath Huzoth. 40 Balak sacrificed cattle and sheep, and gave some to Balaam and the officials who were with him. 41 The next morning Balak took Balaam up to Bamoth Baal, and from there he could see the outskirts of the Israelite camp.

Implied is the possibility one could continue to read this story in Chapter 23.

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 23 - New International Version

Balaam’s First Message - Balaam said, “Build me seven altars here, and prepare seven bulls and seven rams for me.” Balak did as Balaam said, and the two of them offered a bull and a ram on each altar. Then Balaam said to Balak, “Stay here beside your offering while I go aside. Perhaps the LORD...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Heathen]

I don't think this has ever been about the hostages to the government of Israel.

Israel views the hostages as human shields.

Exactly.

Hannibal Directive.

 

[Heathen]

Has Israel offered to end the war, not just for a few weeks, if they get their hostages back? I get that Israel claims it will not stop until Hamas’ military capability is eliminated, but that is undoubtedly going to cause huge civilian deaths, which will create many more terrorists, and will only be temporary, because Hamas or the angry population will re-arm somewhere. Clearly the hostages are the only leverage Hamas has to end the war. I’ve only heard about temporary cease fire for humanitarian aid, but that’s hypocritical of they will follow that with an attack that will kill many civilians. Israel should offer to end the war without completely killing Hamas, but keep open the prospect of attacking again if provoked. Ideally there will be peacekeepers installed in Gaza eventually, but that hurdle is delaying the peace. If Hamas attacks again after the release of the hostages, then Israel should attack those sites, but they should use precision weapons, rather than the WMDs.

Israel has no desire to let the Palestinians keep any of the land they continue to steal. It’s likely a huge reason why they’ve destroyed Gaza. They want these people and their land gone. To wipe it clean.

By the way, they (Israel) are also evicting Palestinians from their homes without due process and bulldozing many others in the West Bank.

What plan of action do Palestinians take in defending their homeland against the Israeli terrorists, I wonder?

Surely they have a right to defend themselves from continued illegal occupation and terrorism.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

EXCLUSIVE: ICC seeks arrest warrants against Sinwar and Netanyahu for war crimes over October 7 attack and Gaza war | CNN

The International Criminal Court is seeking the arrest warrants on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity over the October 7 attacks on Israel and the subsequent war in Gaza.

www.cnn.com