Increasing racist attacks on Asians (1 Viewer)

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    Farb

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/09/attacks-asian-american-elderly-/

    I will admit, I didn't know anything about these these strings of attacks and the murder of elderly Asian American out west. Really disturbing. In most cases, they have caught sub human scum that have committed these crimes.
    In the case of the murder of Ratanapakdee, I sincerely hope the death penalty will be sought, although that is not possible in the state of CA.
     
    I don't understand why people just DO NOT understand that freedom of speech DOES NOT mean freedom from consequence. Yes they are 10. treating another 10 year old that way should result in some kind of punishment. who said anything about making it criminal?
    Did you not see my post suggesting consequences?

    I don’t think the article is well written which is not unusual for USA Today. The first 2/3 of the article is about “one gaping hole” in hate crime laws and the first amendment while tugging on heart strings. This suggests speech laws need to be changed. There is zero follow-up on the actions taken by the school both to support the young girl and to hold accountable the young boys.

    I don’t want freedom from consequences. I want worker protections and equality of consequences. I’m really worried about the attitude that employers should fire people with different political opinions or for speech outside the workplace. I’m worried that we most Americans feel they can’t discuss political opinions. I’m very worried that there appears to be no consequences for the powerful while a worker protesting gets fired.

     
    So Biden signed the Anti-Asian hate crime bill which passed both houses of Congress with ridiculous amounts of support.

    Do we still engage people's delusions that this is something that doesn't exist?
     
    So Biden signed the Anti-Asian hate crime bill which passed both houses of Congress with ridiculous amounts of support.

    Do we still engage people's delusions that this is something that doesn't exist?

     
    Did you not see my post suggesting consequences?

    I don’t think the article is well written which is not unusual for USA Today. The first 2/3 of the article is about “one gaping hole” in hate crime laws and the first amendment while tugging on heart strings. This suggests speech laws need to be changed. There is zero follow-up on the actions taken by the school both to support the young girl and to hold accountable the young boys.

    I don’t want freedom from consequences. I want worker protections and equality of consequences. I’m really worried about the attitude that employers should fire people with different political opinions or for speech outside the workplace. I’m worried that we most Americans feel they can’t discuss political opinions. I’m very worried that there appears to be no consequences for the powerful while a worker protesting gets fired.

    I would argue that most of the ideas people are afraid to express aren’t actually political, they are cultural, ethnic and social ideas. Nobody gets fired for saying they want taxes lowered or raised. Nobody gets fired for saying we should stay or leave Afghanistan. Nobody gets fired for saying we should or shouldn’t fund infrastructure projects. Those are political ideas.

    People get fired for expressing racial, sexist, homophobic or dehumanizing ideas that they pretend are political. Expressing these ideas affect how others view the company, how their fellow employees that fit in the demographic groups they’re “political” beliefs dehumanize feel working with them, and creates HR issues for their employers.

    The problem is in this hyper tribal environment everything from the type of cereal you eat to the color of your house is “political”. Except, they aren’t.
     
    Good point. When you think about it, that makes sense.
    People do disguise their personal beliefs as political. (just as they do with religion)
     
    I would argue that most of the ideas people are afraid to express aren’t actually political, they are cultural, ethnic and social ideas. Nobody gets fired for saying they want taxes lowered or raised. Nobody gets fired for saying we should stay or leave Afghanistan. Nobody gets fired for saying we should or shouldn’t fund infrastructure projects. Those are political ideas.

    People get fired for expressing racial, sexist, homophobic or dehumanizing ideas that they pretend are political. Expressing these ideas affect how others view the company, how their fellow employees that fit in the demographic groups they’re “political” beliefs dehumanize feel working with them, and creates HR issues for their employers.

    The problem is in this hyper tribal environment everything from the type of cereal you eat to the color of your house is “political”. Except, they aren’t.
    “In October 2017, cyclist Juli Briskman was photographed giving the middle finger to President Donald Trump's motorcade during a weekend bike ride in Virginia. The photo quickly spread across the internet, and on the Monday after it was taken, Briskman informed her employer, government contractor Akima, that she was the cyclist pictured. The next day, she was fired.”

     
    “In October 2017, cyclist Juli Briskman was photographed giving the middle finger to President Donald Trump's motorcade during a weekend bike ride in Virginia. The photo quickly spread across the internet, and on the Monday after it was taken, Briskman informed her employer, government contractor Akima, that she was the cyclist pictured. The next day, she was fired.”


    She was a government contractor. Her employer relies on revenue from the government, and she flipped off the head of that government whom her employer relies on for its revenue.

    If I saw the CEO of one of my clients out for dinner, and I flipped him off, and someone was able to identify me, I’d be fired. She wasn’t fired for her political opinion, she was fired for her actions.

    Quick Edit: I actually know multiple people who have been fired for insulting clients. One was actually during a Quota Club trip and they put him on a plane, sent him home, and let him know when he got back to the states he was fired. Another actually received a letter from our legal department telling him they reserved the right to take legal action if they lost the account because of his actions. You can’t go around flipping off the head of your biggest client. I can’t imagine what she thought was going to happen there.
     
    Last edited:
    Did you not see my post suggesting consequences?

    I don’t think the article is well written which is not unusual for USA Today. The first 2/3 of the article is about “one gaping hole” in hate crime laws and the first amendment while tugging on heart strings. This suggests speech laws need to be changed. There is zero follow-up on the actions taken by the school both to support the young girl and to hold accountable the young boys.

    I don’t want freedom from consequences. I want worker protections and equality of consequences. I’m really worried about the attitude that employers should fire people with different political opinions or for speech outside the workplace. I’m worried that we most Americans feel they can’t discuss political opinions. I’m very worried that there appears to be no consequences for the powerful while a worker protesting gets fired.


    I read that article and I swear that my first thought was, "If everybody is so damn scared to talk and share political opinions, why is there so much damn noise?" It doesn't feel like anybody is actually scared to share how they feel. They've just been told they are, think they are or know their opinion is unpopular (or maybe something worse).

    But I know this is a common complaint that is constantly talked about. It just seems like more of a perception thing and we know how those can be twisted.
     
    She was a government contractor. Her employer relies on revenue from the government, and she flipped off the head of that government whom her employer relies on for its revenue.

    If I saw the CEO of one of my clients out for dinner, and I flipped him off, and someone was able to identify me, I’d be fired. She wasn’t fired for her political opinion, she was fired for her actions.

    Quick Edit: I actually know multiple people who have been fired for insulting clients. One was actually during a Quota Club trip and they put him on a plane, sent him home, and let him know when he got back to the states he was fired. Another actually received a letter from our legal department telling him they reserved the right to take legal action if they lost the account because of his actions. You can’t go around flipping off the head of your biggest client. I can’t imagine what she thought was going to happen there.
    I disagree. I see what she did as political speech outside of work. If she attended a Trump protest and her company found out, would it be ok to fire her? What if she attended a Democratic rally? Trump is a public politician and not some nobody client or even a CEO.

    This is where the weakening of unions and worker protections ends up. People fired for a legal, peaceful means of protest. Somehow we have let corporations decide what is permissible speech outside the workplace. Both parties and their followers accept this as long as it’s the other party being punished.
     
    I disagree. I see what she did as political speech outside of work. If she attended a Trump protest and her company found out, would it be ok to fire her? What if she attended a Democratic rally? Trump is a public politician and not some nobody client or even a CEO.

    This is where the weakening of unions and worker protections ends up. People fired for a legal, peaceful means of protest. Somehow we have let corporations decide what is permissible speech outside the workplace. Both parties and their followers accept this as long as it’s the other party being punished.

    i would say they were wrong to fire here if she attended the Women’s March, for instance. There’s a difference between that and a vulgar gesture though.

    Should an employer be forced to keep an employee on that can negatively effect the success of their business because of their behavior? What is the line? Can an employee do absolutely anything they want regardless of impact on their employer then just scream worker protection?

    My standard doesn’t change according to who it is. I despise Trump and think the modern Republican Party is morally and intellectually bankrupt, and I think this company did the absolute right thing in firing this person for a vulgar gesture toward he head of the government that is their bread and butter. I just believe in allowing companies to determine what is best for their bottom line. I’d also argue even in places with a strong union she would have received some punishment for that, though maybe not firing if it was a first offense.
     
    i would say they were wrong to fire here if she attended the Women’s March, for instance. There’s a difference between that and a vulgar gesture though.

    Should an employer be forced to keep an employee on that can negatively effect the success of their business because of their behavior? What is the line? Can an employee do absolutely anything they want regardless of impact on their employer then just scream worker protection?

    My standard doesn’t change according to who it is. I despise Trump and think the modern Republican Party is morally and intellectually bankrupt, and I think this company did the absolute right thing in firing this person for a vulgar gesture toward he head of the government that is their bread and butter. I just believe in allowing companies to determine what is best for their bottom line. I’d also argue even in places with a strong union she would have received some punishment for that, though maybe not firing if it was a first offense.

    I don't know. I feel like people make obscene gestures at government officials, probably quite frequently, and nothing happens to them. I'd argue nothing should happen to them. If that person is not acting in the capacity of a representative of a company, the company should not take action. I don't think she expected to get fired. I also don't think she expected that someone would recognize her and go after her for it.

    I realize companies have a lot of latitude on firing people for actions that might make them look bad, but I'm not so sure this is where the line should be drawn. I haven't really given this a ton of though, but my first response to this would be that the company could have demoted or penalized her. Firing just seems like an over the top, knee jerk response to someone shooting the bird at a public political figure.
     

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