Immigration thread (1 Viewer)

[Zombiewoof]

In keeping with the site's desire to have more conversation based on concepts, ideas and principles, I will be posting a couple of threads in hopes of generating discussion on topics that are relevant no matter who is in office or the news cycle at any point in time.

What are your guiding principles related to immigration? What in your opinion would be the most reasonable plan to reduce illegal immigration? Should legal immigration be limited to those who can assume roles in US society that are in short supply? What steps are necessary for elected representatives to be able to find compromise on these issues?

 

[SaintForLife]

IN any event, the left wants immigration of poor immigrants because they have empathy and compassion. They see them as members of the oppressed class. The capitalists want those same immigrants because they work for low wages.

The right wants the illegal immigrants for cheap labor and the left wants them to increase their voter base whenever they can get amnesty passed.

 

[Paul]

The right wants the illegal immigrants for cheap labor and the left wants them to increase their voter base whenever they can get amnesty passed.

Yes, the left wants those immigrant votes. At the same time those immigrants will take the jobs away from the very people the left is supposedly trying to help.

 

[MT15]

You are making my point. The people in urban areas and the people in the middle of the country seem to be from different planets even though they have the same nationality. It is not wonder the nation is divided and headed for balkanization. The Borg is socialism whereas a single American ethos is something entirely different. Without common ground there is no unity.

You say you have lived in America for 50 some years, yet you say things that tell me you don’t really understand this country at all. We have never been a single monolithic identity. Not once. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it was never true.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

You are making my point. The people in urban areas and the people in the middle of the country seem to be from different planets even though they have the same nationality. It is not wonder the nation is divided and headed for balkanization. The Borg is socialism whereas a single American ethos is something entirely different. Without common ground there is no unity.

And you are making mine. There is no such thing as a single American ethos aside from a willingness to be governed by an antiquated political system. And that's not much of an ethos.

 

[Paul]

And you are making mine. There is no such thing as a single American ethos aside from a willingness to be governed by an antiquated political system. And that's not much of an ethos.

If there is no American ethos then the USA will disintegrate. This is how the Roman Empire ended.

 

[Paul]

You say you have lived in America for 50 some years, yet you say things that tell me you don’t really understand this country at all. We have never been a single monolithic identity. Not once. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it was never true.

And that explains the tribalism and division. This will not end well.

 

[Goatman saint]

Yes, the left wants those immigrant votes. At the same time those immigrants will take the jobs away from the very people the left is supposedly trying to help.

Ummm. A family that walks from Central America/southern Mexico with barely the clothes on their backs being educated at barely a 3rd grade level if at all is going to take your job? Really? If so you have a LOT more things to worry about that Juan and his family.
And, as far as taking jobs, have you been paying attention? My father in law would love to hire someone who isn’t drugged out of a drunk. The man would love a couple of the parents I know who are undocumented and will bust their arse doing anything to provide for their family

 

[Paul]

Ummm. A family that walks from Central America/southern Mexico with barely the clothes on their backs being educated at barely a 3rd grade level if at all is going to take your job? Really? If so you have a LOT more things to worry about that Juan and his family.
And, as far as taking jobs, have you been paying attention? My father in law would love to hire someone who isn’t drugged out of a drunk. The man would love a couple of the parents I know who are undocumented and will bust their arse doing anything to provide for their family

Near 100% of construction workers in my neck of the woods are Hispanic. You don't see blacks or whites working in construction where I live. I am from Latin America and love the work the Hispanic workers do.

Lastly, most nations like to admit more educated immigrants, just sayin'. Admitting people with no education is not a plan.

And you are correct there are more jobs than applicants out there which is a good thing for those looking. However, i am aware of many that prefer the Biden checks.

 

[samiam5211]

Near 100% of construction workers in my neck of the woods are Hispanic. You don't see blacks or whites working in construction where I live. I am from Latin America and love the work the Hispanic workers do.

Lastly, most nations like to admit more educated immigrants, just sayin'. Admitting people with no education is not a plan.

And you are correct there are more jobs than applicants out there which is a good thing for those looking. However, i am aware of many that prefer the Biden checks.

We shouldn’t use immigration to prop up a failing education system.

 

[MT15]

Near 100% of construction workers in my neck of the woods are Hispanic. You don't see blacks or whites working in construction where I live. I am from Latin America and love the work the Hispanic workers do.

Lastly, most nations like to admit more educated immigrants, just sayin'. Admitting people with no education is not a plan.

And you are correct there are more jobs than applicants out there which is a good thing for those looking. However, i am aware of many that prefer the Biden checks.

We’ve been admitting people with no education for decades. Nearly 100 years ago my grandmother, a war widow with two small boys, was admitted to this country. She cleaned houses and took in laundry so that those boys would have a better life. My father went to college on a scholarship and got his master’s degree and finally his superintendents license. Taking into account his four children, there are 3 bachelor’s degrees, 2 master’s degrees and a PhD.

All in all letting in this poor uneducated woman worked out okay for this country.

 

[Paul]

We’ve been admitting people with no education for decades. Nearly 100 years ago my grandmother, a war widow with two small boys, was admitted to this country. She cleaned houses and took in laundry so that those boys would have a better life. My father went to college on a scholarship and got his master’s degree and finally his superintendents license. Taking into account his four children, there are 3 bachelor’s degrees, 2 master’s degrees and a PhD.

All in all letting in this poor uneducated woman worked out okay for this country.

Sure, some uneducated may get in, that is fine. But, America also need well educated talented immigrants. East Asians, Indians, Nigerians are great immigrants.

 

[Goatman saint]

As far as not letting in the uneducated, the Hmong boat people were completely uneducated leaving, yet now are the highest educated immigrant group in US History.
My grandmother (English war bride) was the highest educated of my ancestors that came. Most had no education. One of my best friends parents are undocumented. 2/3 kids already have their college degrees, and my friend is well on her way to hers. My best friends parents first generation. Uneducated. Her mom has the equal of a third grade education. She’s the only one with only a bachelor degree. Of the 8 kids 3 doctorates, 4 masters and one only a Bachelor. Would you like me to continue because I can type for the next hour or so giving personal examples of these poor uneducated people you think should be kept out.

 

[Paul]

As far as not letting in the uneducated, the Hmong boat people were completely uneducated leaving, yet now are the highest educated immigrant group in US History.
My grandmother (English war bride) was the highest educated of my ancestors that came. Most had no education. One of my best friends parents are undocumented. 2/3 kids already have their college degrees, and my friend is well on her way to hers. My best friends parents first generation. Uneducated. Her mom has the equal of a third grade education. She’s the only one with only a bachelor degree. Of the 8 kids 3 doctorates, 4 masters and one only a Bachelor. Would you like me to continue because I can type for the next hour or so giving personal examples of these poor uneducated people you think should be kept out.

Nice anecdotes!

I know a man that jump out of a 4th floor balcony and survived without breaking a single bone. It is certainly possible to jump out of a 4th floor balcony and not die.
I also know this guy that has not been vaccinated for Covid 19 and nevrr got sick even though he was intimate with his girlfriend that had Covid.

Anecdotal evidence is not considered solid evidence. Any nation would be better off receiving better qualified immigrants.

 

[Goatman saint]

Nice anecdotes!

I know a man that jump out of a 4th floor balcony and survived without breaking a single bone. It is certainly possible to jump out of a 4th floor balcony and not die.
I also know this guy that has not been vaccinated for Covid 19 and nevrr got sick even though he was intimate with his girlfriend that had Covid.

Anecdotal evidence is not considered solid evidence. Any nation would be better off receiving better qualified immigrants.

Education levels of U.S. immigrants are on the rise

In 2016, 17.2% of U.S. immigrants ages 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree and another 12.8% had attained a postgraduate degree. Both shares are up since 1980.

www.pewresearch.org

First, we as a country are somewhat having to deal with the hand we are dealt. Most immigrant groups however do exceed native US citizens by the second generation, and once again you are correct that Mexican and Central Americans do not attain as high.
Now, to go along with that I will point out a couple of factors. First, as it says in the article many Hispanics ( referring to Mexican and Central American portion) once they attain higher and intermarry start to drop the Hispanic marker and simply go with white. Second, due to the high amount of Spanish speaking immigrants, in the towns they occupy in the beginning knowing English is not a need. They are never required to use English. Third, many immigrants from this area are also not breaking ties and becoming American only. They hold much tighter to heritage and even some I know in their third generation are still talking of returning to Mexico. So that total investment of losing the language and fully succeeding in the US can be somewhat minimized.
Also, to be quite blunt the racism structurally in many areas push back against Hispanic achievement. While it’s a talking point, in practical sense Hispanics are hindered by the structural racism which points them more towards manual labor and trades rather than college.
So while yes you in a sense are correct, due to the massive number and varied background, along with social, structural and racial issues there are some problems that the youngsters face with becoming a college educated population

 

[Paul]

Education levels of U.S. immigrants are on the rise

In 2016, 17.2% of U.S. immigrants ages 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree and another 12.8% had attained a postgraduate degree. Both shares are up since 1980.

www.pewresearch.org

First, we as a country are somewhat having to deal with the hand we are dealt. Most immigrant groups however do exceed native US citizens by the second generation, and once again you are correct that Mexican and Central Americans do not attain as high.
Now, to go along with that I will point out a couple of factors. First, as it says in the article many Hispanics ( referring to Mexican and Central American portion) once they attain higher and intermarry start to drop the Hispanic marker and simply go with white. Second, due to the high amount of Spanish speaking immigrants, in the towns they occupy in the beginning knowing English is not a need. They are never required to use English. Third, many immigrants from this area are also not breaking ties and becoming American only. They hold much tighter to heritage and even some I know in their third generation are still talking of returning to Mexico. So that total investment of losing the language and fully succeeding in the US can be somewhat minimized.
Also, to be quite blunt the racism structurally in many areas push back against Hispanic achievement. While it’s a talking point, in practical sense Hispanics are hindered by the structural racism which points them more towards manual labor and trades rather than college.
So while yes you in a sense are correct, due to the massive number and varied background, along with social, structural and racial issues there are some problems that the youngsters face with becoming a college educated population

Great, you did not came up with anecdotes to make your point.

I am from Latin America and IMO you are correct. All my children married Italian and Irish Catholics and have a 100% American culture. Many Latins I know are thriving because they work hard at it. However, they are not in the same league as East Asian or Indian immigrants. Granted many Hispanic immigrants come with no education or skills.

There is discrimination, but it is nothing like when I came more than 40 years ago. Nevertheless, there were many more opportunities and kind people than the few bigots I saw. America is very welcoming to immigrants. However, there must be a balance. Victor Hanson has said it is best to accept a few from every nation in the world than to accept the same number from one of two nations.

Great post mate!

 

[MT15]

Paul, come on. You are in no position to chastise other people who speak from their personal experience. You spout your personal beliefs without ever providing any documentation.

Don’t expect others to provide proof when you are unable or unwilling to do the same.

 

[Paul]

Paul, come on. You are in no position to chastise other people who speak from their personal experience. You spout your personal beliefs without ever providing any documentation.

Don’t expect others to provide proof when you are unable or unwilling to do the same.

I simply make observations. I see things you cannot see because you have your very own biases. You cannot accept anything different.

 

[MT15]

This is the second time today you have personally insulted me. Why?