Immigration thread (1 Viewer)

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Zombiewoof

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In keeping with the site's desire to have more conversation based on concepts, ideas and principles, I will be posting a couple of threads in hopes of generating discussion on topics that are relevant no matter who is in office or the news cycle at any point in time.

What are your guiding principles related to immigration? What in your opinion would be the most reasonable plan to reduce illegal immigration? Should legal immigration be limited to those who can assume roles in US society that are in short supply? What steps are necessary for elected representatives to be able to find compromise on these issues?
 

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Wasn't sure where to put this but I just got a push notification that SCOTUS will hear the case related to undocumented immigrants and whether they should be counted in the Census. I'm not sure how I feel about it and haven't given it a great deal of thought. I'm curious what the points of the case will be. Should be interesting.
 

LA - L.A.

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Wasn't sure where to put this but I just got a push notification that SCOTUS will hear the case related to undocumented immigrants and whether they should be counted in the Census. I'm not sure how I feel about it and haven't given it a great deal of thought. I'm curious what the points of the case will be. Should be interesting.
This is where you will see the so called "originalists" show their hypocritical, disingenuous, true colors by arguing and voting against counting undocumented immigrants.

I hope I'm wrong and I'll gladly admit I was wrong if they don't.
 

DaveXA

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This is where you will see the so called "originalists" show their hypocritical, disingenuous, true colors by arguing and voting against counting undocumented immigrants.

I hope I'm wrong and I'll gladly admit I was wrong if they don't.
Well, I'm wondering, is it a literal headcount of everyone in the country, or a counting of everyone who is a legal resident? Are undocumented immigrants considered legal residents or should they be counted because they're actually present?

Fwiw, I'm wondering whether admitting you're an undocumented immigrant could be problematic. I imagine I wouldn't want to be reporting for fear of deportation or something.

I'm just thinking out loud on this.
 

MT15

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The way I understand it, the census counts all persons. There is no mention of legal status at all. I could be wrong since I am going from memory, but I believe it has traditionally counted everyone.
 

LA - L.A.

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Well, I'm wondering, is it a literal headcount of everyone in the country, or a counting of everyone who is a legal resident? Are undocumented immigrants considered legal residents or should they be counted because they're actually present?

Fwiw, I'm wondering whether admitting you're an undocumented immigrant could be problematic. I imagine I wouldn't want to be reporting for fear of deportation or something.

I'm just thinking out loud on this.
As far as I know, every census that has ever been taken has counted everyone without ever asking anyone anything about their citizenship status or voting status.

It's always meant to be a count of people reducing slaves to a 3/5 count per person and excluding Indians who they didn't want represented at all, not just eligible voters or citizens. They even counted indentured servants.

Here's the full text:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.
 
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DaveXA

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As far as I know, every census that has ever been taken has counted everyone without ever asking anyone anything about their citizenship status or voting status.

It's always meant to be a count of people reducing slaves to a 3/5 count per person and excluding Indians who they didn't want represented at all, not just eligible voters or citizens. They even counted indentured servants.

Here's the full text:
Interesting. Looks like they should be counting everyone then. At least until Congress changes the law.
 

MT15

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Originally, the census is in the constitution, so I’m not sure how much they can alter how it is done. We need a legal opinion on this.
 

DaveXA

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Originally, the census is in the constitution, so I’m not sure how much they can alter how it is done. We need a legal opinion on this.
Well, I'm assuming they count Indians and slaves are no longer applicable, so I dunno. I assume any altering of the law would require an amendment.
 

LA - L.A.

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Originally, the census is in the constitution, so I’m not sure how much they can alter how it is done. We need a legal opinion on this.
I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV. The argument usually comes down to the interpretation of "the whole Number of free Persons." Some argue that they meant only citizens when they wrote "persons." Others point out that in other places in the Constituion they use the specific language of "citizens" when specifically referring to citizens, which indicates in this clause that they meant all persons except those who were excluded. If Indians were not considered citizens, then expressly excluding Indians would also support the interpretation that they meant all persons, not just citizens.
Well, I'm assuming they count Indians and slaves are no longer applicable, so I dunno. I assume any altering of the law would require an amendment.
I don't know that they count native Americans who live on sovereign land/reservations.
 

DaveXA

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I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV. The argument usually comes down to the interpretation of "the whole Number of free Persons." Some argue that they meant only citizens when they wrote "persons." Others point out that in other places in the Constituion they use the specific language of "citizens" when specifically referring to citizens, which indicates in this clause that they meant all persons except those who were excluded. If Indians were not considered citizens, then expressly excluding Indians would also support the interpretation that they meant all persons, not just citizens.
I don't know that they count native Americans who live on sovereign land/reservations.
Apparently, they are being counted and have been counted previously. Just from a cursory look, is seems that they're frequently undercounted, which probably isn't all that surprising.

I am wondering if the SC will give us a bit more clarity on whether undocumented residents can or should be counted.
 

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