Immigration is completely out of control (2 Viewers)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[J-DONK]

This is a chart of the GDP of Mexico.

Yea, i guess the conditions didn't happen to change around the same time the illegal entry from Mexico fell. I guess NAFTA didn't have anything to do with it.

You are a confident idiot.

Most people don't realize that China, and Mexico have comparable GDP per capita. Mexico might actually gain with America focusing on friend shoring, and the collapse of the real estate market in China.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Most people don't realize that China, and Mexico have comparable GDP per capita. Mexico might actually gain with America focusing on friend shoring, and the collapse of the real estate market in China.

There's also this:

For First Time in Two Decades, U.S. Buys More From Mexico Than China

The United States bought more goods from Mexico than China in 2023 for the first time in 20 years, evidence of how much global trade patterns have shifted.

www.nytimes.com

 

[SystemShock]

This is a chart of the GDP of Mexico.

Yea, i guess the conditions didn't happen to change around the same time the illegal entry from Mexico fell. I guess NAFTA didn't have anything to do with it.

You are a confident idiot.

Compliments will not get you anywhere.

NAFTA had a lot to do with he GDP of Mexico, but NAFTA (or currently the USMCA, or T-MEC in MX) has not solved the same conditions that have existed since times untold: poverty and how cheap manual labor is. In that, it is not that different from the U.S.; the U.S.' GDP has not solved poverty or homelessness in the U.S. either; and most of the money is in possession of a very small portion of the population of MX, too.

I got charts too... here's one from the MX government. It says 40%+ of the population of MX lives in moderate poverty. If I have to translate what that means in U.S. terms, it is people living from paycheck to paycheck, that just about cover basic needs.

And you may find this hard to believe, but a lot of basic needs are more expensive in MX than the U.S., on average, or even straight up, like electricity, or gas. Gas, for example: according to Forbes, the average price for a gallon of regular gas in the U.S. is $3.39. In MX, currently, the average price for a liter of regular gas is ~$23 pesos (in my State is $23.99) or, if you do the math, at the current exchange rate, is ~$6 dollars a gallon. If you think $6 is expensive, consider than half the working population in MX don't even reach $1,000 dollars a month in earnings.

Minimum wages? In the U.S. the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr. In MX, at current exchange rate, is ~$17-$18 per day.

I do have to note, the chart MX government chart is a 2023 chart, with numbers as of 2020, but even though the MX government of AMLO is straight up giving cash to buy votes the last 2-3 years, and the 3-4 mega projects mandated by the MX President, the conditions for the poor and extreme poor have not really changed that much.

 

[samiam5211]

Compliments will not get you anywhere.

NAFTA had a lot to do with he GDP of Mexico, but NAFTA (or currently the USMCA, or T-MEC in MX) has not solved the same conditions that have existed since times untold: poverty and how cheap manual labor is. In that, it is not that different from the U.S.; the U.S.' GDP has not solved poverty or homelessness in the U.S. either; and most of the money is in possession of a very small portion of the population of MX, too.

I got charts too... here's one from the MX government. It says 40%+ of the population of MX lives in moderate poverty. If I have to translate what that means in U.S. terms, it is people living from paycheck to paycheck, that just about cover basic needs.

And you may find this hard to believe, but a lot of basic needs are more expensive in MX than the U.S., on average, or even straight up, like electricity, or gas. Gas, for example: according to Forbes, the average price for a gallon of regular gas in the U.S. is $3.39. In MX, currently, the average price for a liter of regular gas is ~$23 pesos (in my State is $23.99) or, if you do the math, at the current exchange rate, is ~$6 dollars a gallon. If you think $6 is expensive, consider than half the working population in MX don't even reach $1,000 dollars a month in earnings.

Minimum wages? In the U.S. the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr. In MX, at current exchange rate, is ~$17-$18 per day.

I do have to note, the chart MX government chart is a 2023 chart, with numbers as of 2020, but even though the MX government of AMLO is straight up giving cash to buy votes the last 2-3 years, and the 3-4 mega projects mandated by the MX President, the conditions for the poor and extreme poor have not really changed that much.

The economic conditions in Mexico have improved greatly since the 80s and early 90s, and that is why we don’t have a problem with Mexicans crossing illegally in high numbers.

It is just an undeniable fact.

 

[SystemShock]

The economic conditions in Mexico have improved greatly since the 80s and early 90s, and that is why we don’t have a problem with Mexicans crossing illegally in high numbers.

It is just an undeniable fact.

I am trying to explain to you how things are. You claiming some things are "undeniable facts" and making general statements and presenting them as facts don't make them facts.

You think that the GDP of MX going up trickles down to all Mexicans because you saw a graphics that says the MX GDP has significantly risen. That's simply not the case. Not counting narco money, the money in MX is concentrated in 4-5 States. You go to cities like Monterrey, CDMX, Merida, Cancun, you see the money (and the money you see, belongs to a few). Then you go to places like Tuxtla Gutierrez, Villahermosa, Tlaxcala, Colima, not so much.

Overall, have the conditions of Mexicans "greatly improved"? I don't know about "greatly"... the conditions of some Mexicans have improved, sure... but not the conditions of all Mexicans, certainly not the majority... in relation to standards/cost of living, poverty levels haven't really changed... manual labor pay has not really changed... if people could make $10 dollars an hour mowing lawns in MX, I'm sure they'd mostly stay in MX...

As for Mexicans crossing the border to the U.S. as I said before, you can't count what you don't catch. There is also a certain dynamic to the U.S.-MX border, just as it is in the MX-Guatemala border than isn't accounted for...

 

[samiam5211]

I am trying to explain to you how things are. You claiming some things are "undeniable facts" and making general statements and presenting them as facts don't make them facts.

You think that the GDP of MX going up trickles down to all Mexicans because you saw a graphics that says the MX GDP has significantly risen. That's simply not the case. Not counting narco money, the money in MX is concentrated in 4-5 States. You go to cities like Monterrey, CDMX, Merida, Cancun, you see the money (and the money you see, belongs to a few). Then you go to places like Tuxtla Gutierrez, Villahermosa, Tlaxcala, Colima, not so much.

Overall, have the conditions of Mexicans "greatly improved"? I don't know about "greatly"... the conditions of some Mexicans have improved, sure... but not the conditions of all Mexicans, certainly not the majority... in relation to standards/cost of living, poverty levels haven't really changed... manual labor pay has not really changed... if people could make $10 dollars an hour mowing lawns in MX, I'm sure they'd mostly stay in MX...

As for Mexicans crossing the border to the U.S. as I said before, you can't count what you don't catch. There is also a certain dynamic to the U.S.-MX border, just as it is in the MX-Guatemala border than isn't accounted for...

However things are, they are much better than they were in the 80s and 90s, which is good enough to prevent large numbers of Mexicans from crossing the border illegally.

I am not trying to say that things in Mexico are as good as they are in the US. I am just saying that they are good enough that people are not coming to the US illegally in the millions or even tens of thousands illegally anymore.

We don't have to make life in Guatemala or Venezuela the same as it is in the US to make people decide it is worth trying to make a life there.

 

[SystemShock]

However things are, they are much better than they were in the 80s and 90s, which is good enough to prevent large numbers of Mexicans from crossing the border illegally.

I am not trying to say that things in Mexico are as good as they are in the US. I am just saying that they are good enough that people are not coming to the US illegally in the millions or even tens of thousands illegally anymore.

We don't have to make life in Guatemala or Venezuela the same as it is in the US to make people decide it is worth trying to make a life there.

Do you know what else happened throughout the 80's and 90's? And really throughout the 2000's-2010's too? The MX peso kept losing its value. Got so bad in the mid 90's that a new currency was introduced to remove three 0's off it... You know what happens when money loses its value, right? Especially for poor people, right?

It's only been the last year or so that the MX peso has gained value against the dollar, ironically, in great part due to the money that migrants (legal or illegal) send from the U.S.

Anyway, you are making a correlation between 2 slides you saw, without any more context than the 2 slides, and assuming one caused the other. Like anywhere else, GDP doesn't tell you anything about living standards or poverty levels, especially in countries where corruption is practically institutionalized, and illegal immigration numbers are never going to be accurate beyond what can be counted, i.e., how many people get caught.

 

[samiam5211]

Do you know what else happened throughout the 80's and 90's? And really throughout the 2000's-2010's too? The MX peso kept losing its value. Got so bad in the mid 90's that a new currency was introduced to remove three 0's off it... You know what happens when money loses its value, right? Especially for poor people, right?

It's only been the last year or so that the MX peso has gained value against the dollar, ironically, in great part due to the money that migrants (legal or illegal) send from the U.S.

Anyway, you are making a correlation between 2 slides you saw, without any more context than the 2 slides, and assuming one caused the other. Like anywhere else, GDP doesn't tell you anything about living standards or poverty levels, especially in countries where corruption is practically institutionalized, and illegal immigration numbers are never going to be accurate beyond what can be counted, i.e., how many people get caught.

Improvements in the economy in Mexico due to NAFTA essentially ended our illegal immigration problem from Mexico.

I'm sorry that you have a problem accepting that.

 

[SaintForLife]

Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey complaining that Congress didn't pass the "border bill" (More money goes to foreign aid than the border) when she was the one who advocated for sanctuary cities in Massachusetts.
"We can't handle the numbers that we've seen in terms of new arrivals. We need to put some guard rails, some parameters around that"
"What about a residency requirement?"
After ranting that MA can't take in more illegals, and that guard rails need to be put up, the reporter asks about a basic residency requirement. Healey rejects that guard rail.
After Healey, Wu, and other MA Democrats were advocating for unlimited illegal immigration to the state of MA, Healey is shocked that they took her up on her offer.

 

[SaintForLife]

Biden says he regrets using the term “illegal” when talking about the illegal immigrant who allegedly killed Laken Riley.

BIDEN 2024: "I shouldn't have used illegal. It's undocumented."

SCHUMER 2009: "When we use phrases like undocumented workers, we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combatting illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose."

PELOSI 2024: "He should have said undocumented. He said illegal. We usually say undocumented. I don't think it's a big deal."

SCHUMER 2009: "The American people are fundamentally pro-legal immigration and anti-illegal immigration. If you don't think it's illegal, you're not going to say it. I think it is illegal and wrong, and we have to change it."

CLINTON 1995: "All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected but in every place in this country are rightly disturbed by the large number of illegal aliens entering our country."

Why does the modern Democrat Party support illegal immigration when there is overwhelming opposition to it among the American people?

Joe Biden doesn't even want to say "illegal immigrant" in 2024.

 

[DaveXA]

Biden says he regrets using the term “illegal” when talking about the illegal immigrant who allegedly killed Laken Riley.

BIDEN 2024: "I shouldn't have used illegal. It's undocumented."

SCHUMER 2009: "When we use phrases like undocumented workers, we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combatting illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose."

PELOSI 2024: "He should have said undocumented. He said illegal. We usually say undocumented. I don't think it's a big deal."

SCHUMER 2009: "The American people are fundamentally pro-legal immigration and anti-illegal immigration. If you don't think it's illegal, you're not going to say it. I think it is illegal and wrong, and we have to change it."

CLINTON 1995: "All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected but in every place in this country are rightly disturbed by the large number of illegal aliens entering our country."

Why does the modern Democrat Party support illegal immigration when there is overwhelming opposition to it among the American people?

Joe Biden doesn't even want to say "illegal immigrant" in 2024.

Saying "undocumented worker" =/= supporting illegal immigration.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott boasted shortly after he began soliciting private donations for his controversial migrant busing program that there would likely “be no cost to the state” given the outpouring of support from concerned citizens across the country.

But after nearly two years of fundraising to offset the program’s costs, Abbott’s operation has collected less than half of 1% of the roughly $150 million spent on busing migrants to sanctuary cities, according to a review of state records. And CNN found that the largest donation – $900,000 – never made it into the state’s coffers, either because it was a mistake or a prank.

Records show that at most, around $550,000 has been raised to date.

The data provided by the state reflected donations submitted online or by mail through check, credit card or bank transfer, not funds actually received by the state — meaning the data could contain donations that were rejected by banks and credit companies during processing. Reporters tried to reach the woman behind the supposed $900,000 donation, but they could not locate the person with the name provided, and the phone number submitted to state officials was disconnected.

Abbott’s office published a running tally online to show how willing people were to support his program. After the $900,000 contribution was submitted online in September, the website showed that donations had reached more than $1.3 million, but in December, the tally was readjusted – dropping back down to around $460,000.

CNN also spoke with another donor listed in the data who confirmed he did not make the $2,000 donation listed under his name. Yet another donor showed reporters a letter he said he received from the state after complaining that his $1,000 donation to the state border wall fund had been instead allocated to the busing efforts.

The governor’s office did not respond to CNN’s questions about the mystery donation, other discrepancies and whether any of the other donations listed in the state data did not come through.

Since the busing program started, Texas taxpayers have largely footed the bill. The governor’s office says it has transported more than 100,000 migrants from Texas to sanctuary cities around the nation, including New York City, Chicago, Washington, DC and Denver. Given the payments made to private contractors so far as detailed in public records, this means it has cost about $1,500 to move each migrant out of the state.............

MSN

 

[Lapaz]

Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey complaining that Congress didn't pass the "border bill" (More money goes to foreign aid than the border) when she was the one who advocated for sanctuary cities in Massachusetts.
"We can't handle the numbers that we've seen in terms of new arrivals. We need to put some guard rails, some parameters around that"
"What about a residency requirement?"
After ranting that MA can't take in more illegals, and that guard rails need to be put up, the reporter asks about a basic residency requirement. Healey rejects that guard rail.
After Healey, Wu, and other MA Democrats were advocating for unlimited illegal immigration to the state of MA, Healey is shocked that they took her up on her offer.

It isn't inconsistent to want to protect illegal immigrants that are already within a city that haven't committed any violent crime, while still wanting to pass laws to reduce the numbers of immigrants that are allowed to remain in the U.S. These cities have better relations with their immigrant populations, and have less crime, so it is a smart policy, but that doesn't mean that these cities want that immigrant population to grow. Communities have to do the best they can within their borders, but it is reasonable for them to advocate for a broader national solution.

 

[SystemShock]

Improvements in the economy in Mexico due to NAFTA essentially ended our illegal immigration problem from Mexico.

I'm sorry that you have a problem accepting that.

Again, you saw a slide and made up your mind that the trade agreement trickled down the Mexican economy and ended poverty in Mexico. It didn't.

Here is an article from last year.

Mexicanos, los más deportados desde EU tras suspensión del Título 42

En los últimos tres meses, 145,876 mexicanos han sido deportados. Ni juntando los migrantes procedentes de Honduras, Guatemala y El Salvador se supera el número de los connacionales deportados.

politica.expansion.mx

It says that, between June and August of last year, 145,876 Mexicans were deported from the U.S. It says that that's more than Guatemalans, Hondurans, and Salvadoreans combined.

It also says that between May 2022 and July 2023, 699,292 foreigners were detained at the border, and 20% of them were Mexicans.

Did you know that the MX federal government actually has a branch that helps Mexicans who have been deported from both Canada and the U.S.?


But GDP slide, right?

 

[samiam5211]

Again, you saw a slide and made up your mind that the trade agreement trickled down the Mexican economy and ended poverty in Mexico. It didn't.

Here is an article from last year.

Mexicanos, los más deportados desde EU tras suspensión del Título 42

En los últimos tres meses, 145,876 mexicanos han sido deportados. Ni juntando los migrantes procedentes de Honduras, Guatemala y El Salvador se supera el número de los connacionales deportados.

politica.expansion.mx

It says that, between June and August of last year, 145,876 Mexicans were deported from the U.S. It says that that's more than Guatemalans, Hondurans, and Salvadoreans combined.

It also says that between May 2022 and July 2023, 699,292 foreigners were detained at the border, and 20% of them were Mexicans.

But GDP slide, right?

Yea, most of those Mexicans had lived for a long time, most of them probably had green cards.

We have a huge number of Mexican immigrants, most of them are here legally, but are a couple of DUI's or a fight with their wife away from being deported.

You have no idea what you are talking about on this topic, but plenty of confidence. You are like a drunk uncle.

 

[SystemShock]

Yea, most of those Mexicans had lived for a long time, most of them probably had green cards.

We have a huge number of Mexican immigrants, most of them are here legally, but are a couple of DUI's or a fight with their wife away from being deported.

You have no idea what you are talking about on this topic, but plenty of confidence. You are like a drunk uncle.

Sure, dude... you believe what you want to believe, hold on to your GDP slide, and call me whatever you want to call me if it makes you feel better.

 

[Eeyore]

I usually stay out of the immigration discussions but I have a question.

In 2018 when Trump was president and the Republicans held both the house and Senate, why didn't they solve the border issue?

 

[fooferdoggie]

I usually stay out of the immigration discussions but I have a question.

In 2018 when Trump was president and the Republicans held both the house and Senate, why didn't they solve the border issue?

exactly. hell it trump got rid of all the immigrants businesses would go bankrupt.
I just realized if immigrants are smart all they have to do is get together and setup a fundraising dinner for trump and he will praise them with open arms. worked great for coke and tictok