General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (3 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[TampaJoe]

Are you all okay with Trump taking away the rights for any person in America to transition and be transgendered? Are you okay with Trump taking away the rights of transgendered adults to take hormones or have sex reassignment surgery? Are you all okay with Trump not allowing states to recognize transgendered people as such?

While you all are arguing about something that effects less than 1% of women's sports, Trump is proposing the wholesale outlawing of transgender people everywhere in America. Is that acceptable to you? Can you muster up enough concern to be worried about the plight of transgender people in our society given the current environment of hate around America?

Or sense it not you and transgender people are iky, you don't care?

Speaking for myself, how one chooses to live is their personal decision. However, I dont see where it is fair to female athletes to allow transgendered men to compete as females in womens athletics. It does more harm than good in my opinion. Biological females have a right to be treated fairly which was hard fought and should be respected as well.

 

[Huntn]

I voted in every election since 1978. Not sure I agree with you on the whole dire threat thing. I can tell you that every 4 years, one or both candidates proclaims loudly and passionately that the pcoming election is the most important election in their lifetime. That is until the next most important election four year later.

The thing that I believe is the biggest threat to th democracy is that the most extreme portions of both parties think the other party is some kind of national threat. Kinda like Sunnis and Shias American style.

You say this as if there’s not that much difference between the two parties and nothing imo, could be more out of skew. The GOP basically no longer exist, the lawful moderates have been driven out replaced by “tear it down”disingenuous (lie their arses off or just plain ignorant) MAGA minions who desire returning us to the 1950s when racism and intolerance was en vogue.

Reason, science, fairness, tolerance, true equality are an affront to these people, so much so, they turned “woke” into a dirty word as if these qualities are evil. Ah, but that’s what projectionist do. They throw all their base qualities onto others, “you’re the evil ones, not us. You steal elections, not us. Disregard reality and swallow our self serving fantasies.”

This is what we all get in Upside Down Land, a reversal of standards and morality, the game is Fool’d Ya. Arguments are not won with logic, reason, and knowledge, they are won by fooling people, appealing to racism, tribalism, xenophobia, and mostly selfishness. These people are against democracy and into dictatorship, with them doing the dictating. Just like when “freedom of religion” does not mean freedom at all. Instead it means MY FREEDOM to force my beliefs down your throat.

There is a distinct horrible difference between a lawful president and a lawless president, especially a fascist president, filling his cabinet up, not with wise men, just yes men, the most important qualification. Last time Trump had guard rails. This time he won’t make that mistake again. There were moves he wanted to make, but was stopped by people in his administration and others in government in positions of relative power who actually adhered to the Constitution add art framework of laws. This is a huge inconvenience for Mr. Trump in his goal to be an immune dictator and you are kidding yourself to think otherwise. The game is to change laws so they are favorable “to my authority”, then call those who rebel, the lawless ones. He was not kidding when he said “vote just this last time and you’ll never have to worry about voting again. “ This will be the single largest threat to our democracy when the red states election boards are corrupted to ensure who they want to win, wins

My impression is that you think this will all straighten itself out one way or the other, but the key here is what do you actually support? Do you believe in equal rights and civil liberties not? Are you racist and/or sexist?

This situation will certainly straighten itself out one way or the other and a civil war is very possible. At this point, all I can say is “so be it.” The final philosophical question will be is the blood, pain and suffering worth it? And don’t forget Gaia, who is in the process of taking care of us, the toxic fleas living on its back.

 

[Huntn]

Hitler won a free and fair election too. The truth is modern Americans are soft, yet think they’re special and somehow immune to what’s happened throughout history and around the world.

The parallels between the US and Nazi Germany are so similiar.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

The last week of this board has been hilarious. This is every other reply…

 

[TampaJoe]

You say this as if there’s not that much difference between the two parties and nothing imo, could be more out of skew. The GOP basically no longer exist, the lawful moderates have been driven out replaced by “tear it down”disingenuous (lie their arses off or just plain ignorant) MAGA minions who desire returning us to the 1950s when racism and intolerance was en vogue.

Reason, science, fairness, tolerance, true equality are an affront to these people, so much so, they turned “woke” into a dirty word as if these qualities are evil. Ah, but that’s what projectionist do. They throw all their base qualities onto others, “you’re the evil ones, not us. You steal elections, not us. Disregard reality and swallow our self serving fantasies.”

This is what we all get in Upside Down Land, a reversal of standards and morality, the game is Fool’d Ya. Arguments are not won with logic, reason, and knowledge, they are won by fooling people, appealing to racism, tribalism, xenophobia, and mostly selfishness. These people are against democracy and into dictatorship, with them doing the dictating. Just like when “freedom of religion” does not mean freedom at all. Instead it means MY FREEDOM to force my beliefs down your throat.

There is a distinct horrible difference between a lawful president and a lawless president, especially a fascist president, filling his cabinet up, not with wise men, just yes men, the most important qualification. Last time Trump had guard rails. This time he won’t make that mistake again. There were moves he wanted to make, but was stopped by people in his administration and others in government in positions of relative power who actually adhered to the Constitution add art framework of laws. This is a huge inconvenience for Mr. Trump in his goal to be an immune dictator and you are kidding yourself to think otherwise. The game is to change laws so they are favorable “to my authority”, then call those who rebel, the lawless ones. He was not kidding when he said “vote just this last time and you’ll never have to worry about voting again. “ This will be the single largest threat to our democracy when the red states election boards are corrupted to ensure who they want to win, wins

My impression is that you think this will all straighten itself out one way or the other, but the key here is what do you actually support? Do you believe in equal rights and civil liberties not? Are you racist and/or sexist?

This situation will certainly straighten itself out one way or the other and a civil war is very possible. At this point, all I can say is “so be it.” The final philosophical question will be is the blood, pain and suffering worth it? And don’t forget Gaia, who is in the process of taking care of us, the toxic fleas living on its back.

I havent called anyone evil. We are a county pretty much evenly divided between two parties and a growing number of people who identify as independents. TBH I think both parties have problems with their extreme elements.

I dont have crystal ball so I cant predict the future. I am hopeful that cooler more rational heads on both sides will figure this all out before we get to the blood pain and suffering part. Neither side is going away. So my first choice is to try to get along. Civil War is way on down my list of preferences.

 

[coldseat]

Adults over the age of 18 can do whatever they want to their bodies. And if they pay out of pocket. The taxpayer or an insurance company should not bear the burden from the side effects or complications from these surgeries. Im not against people doing whatever they want to their bodies, but not at another's expense.

That's not what Trump is proposing, but I guess you at least recognize an adults rights to be transgendered. I'll never understand why it's necessary to treat transgendered people as outcast in every sense of the word.

Children cannot transition in any way until they are 18.

Why? Even with their parents consent? That's very authoritarian of you. Why do you assume you know what is best for all children? Do you have a kid that's transgendered or has gender dysphoria?

 

[coldseat]

Speaking for myself, how one chooses to live is their personal decision. However, I dont see where it is fair to female athletes to allow transgendered men to compete as females in womens athletics. It does more harm than good in my opinion. Biological females have a right to be treated fairly which was hard fought and should be respected as well.

Not talking about sports. My question was specifically about Trump proposing to basically outlaw transgendered people and take away any rights they have. Because that's where the sports outrage was always destined to lead. You pick a largely insignificant topic like transgendered people playing sports and you demonize the subgroup and exploit and extrapolate anger around said insignificant topic to remove all of the rights for that subgroup. That's where we are now. Is that okay?

 

[Poppy]

Adults over the age of 18 can do whatever they want to their bodies. And if they pay out of pocket. The taxpayer or an insurance company should not bear the burden from the side effects or complications from these surgeries. Im not against people doing whatever they want to their bodies, but not at another's expense.

That's not what Trump is proposing, but I guess you at least recognize an adults rights to be transgendered. I'll never understand why it's necessary to treat transgendered people as outcast in every sense of the word.



Why? Even with their parents consent? That's very authoritarian of you. Why do you assume you know what is best for all children? Do you have a kid that's transgendered or has gender dysphoria?

If a parent of a child, would approve of allowing a child to transition in anyway, prior to an age of consent, is disturbing to me. They are children. Why is that so hard to understand? This isn't gettting a damn tattoo. These are permanent, life altering procedures, The cost is too high for regrets.

The parent can allow a child, to dress how ever they choose. But when you go and give these hormones, and chopping off things, thats another thing. And any parent that would that to their child, is twisted to me. IMO. You know, a friend of mine had a child that was a girl and decided to transition to a boy. They were so supportive, and they allowed it at 17 if i remember correctly. Breast removal, hormones to grow hair, etc. That was probably 5 or 6 years ago. Not sure how they are doing now, but id love to find out.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

If a parent of a child, would approve of allowing a child to transition in anyway, prior to an age of consent, is disturbing to me. They are children. Why is that so hard to understand? This isn't gettting a damn tattoo. These are permanent, life altering procedures, The cost is too high for regrets.

The parent can allow a child, to dress how ever they choose. But when you go and give these hormones, and chopping off things, thats another thing. And any parent that would that to their child, is twisted to me. IMO. You know, a friend of mine had a child that was a girl and decided to transition to a boy. They were so supportive, and they allowed it at 17 if i remember correctly. Breast removal, hormones to grow hair, etc. That was probably 5 or 6 years ago. Not sure how they are doing now, but id love to find out.

You are aware that these aren't situations where parents are randomly deciding to consent to the whims of a child, right? That there are teams of doctors and professionals involved at every step?

 

[Poppy]

You are aware that these aren't situations where parents are randomly deciding to consent to the whims of a child, right? That there are teams of doctors and professionals involved at every step?

I truly don't care what a physician says. It goes beyond good ethics to take part in doing this to a child.

 

[TampaJoe]

Not talking about sports. My question was specifically about Trump proposing to basically outlaw transgendered people and take away any rights they have. Because that's where the sports outrage was always destined to lead. You pick a largely insignificant topic like transgendered people playing sports and you demonize the subgroup and exploit and extrapolate anger around said insignificant topic to remove all of the rights for that subgroup. That's where we are now. Is that okay?

Other than the sports issue and possibly the issue of whether to allow such permanent body altering procedures to procede before the age of 18, I am not aware of a proposal to outlaw transgendered people. Im not saying some think tank doesnt have it on its wish list but I havent heard anything from either Trump or Vance re: outlawing transgendered people. I woud think there would be legitimate constitutional objections to such legislation.

 

[TampaJoe]

You are aware that these aren't situations where parents are randomly deciding to consent to the whims of a child, right? That there are teams of doctors and professionals involved at every step?

That is understood. There is still some question in the medical community as I understand regarding the long term effects of such changes prior puberty. Not everyone is in agreement.

I definately believe such a procedure on a minor should require consent of the parents. After all these therapies are life altering and can have permanent or long term physical and mental ramifications.

Serious stuff.

 

[Optimus Prime]

feels like this conversation should go to the LGBTQ thread

When you say transition are you only talking about surgically?

Are you okay with changing name, dress etc. before 18 years old?

I don't think anyone's 10 year old son is saying "I'm a girl today" and penises are being lopped off tomorrow

I assume it a much more drawn out, serious and professional process than that

 

[coldseat]

Other than the sports issue and possibly the issue of whether to allow such permanent body altering procedures to procede before the age of 18, I am not aware of a proposal to outlaw transgendered people. Im not saying some think tank doesnt have it on its wish list but I havent heard anything from either Trump or Vance re: outlawing transgendered people. I woud think there would be legitimate constitutional objections to such legislation.

It's coming right out Trump's own mouth. These are his intentions once he takes power.

What the fork is this guys problem? This is so disgusting. Also, they really need to get him off that speed/coke he's taking.

I'm sure the people who voted for Trump because they hate transgender people will love this. As well the people blaming transgender people for the Democrats loss.

The 2nd Dark Ages are upon us. Ignorance abounds everywhere.

 

[coldseat]

If a parent of a child, would approve of allowing a child to transition in anyway, prior to an age of consent, is disturbing to me. They are children. Why is that so hard to understand? This isn't gettting a damn tattoo. These are permanent, life altering procedures, The cost is too high for regrets.

Regret from transitioning occurs in less than 1% cases. These aren't decisions that are made lightly and without serious evaluation, counseling and consideration. Not every bodies path is the same and not all transgender people fully transition.

==========
But in an article we recently published in JAMA Surgery, we challenge the notion that transgender people often regret gender-affirming surgeries.

Evidence suggests that less than 1% of transgender people who undergo gender-affirming surgery report regret. That proportion is even more striking when compared to the fact that 14.4% of the broader population reports regret after similar surgeries.
==========

Transgender regret? Research challenges narratives about gender-affirming surgeries

The findings push back against the notion that many transgender people end up wishing they hadn’t gone through with gender-affirming surgeries.

theconversation.com

The parent can allow a child, to dress how ever they choose. But when you go and give these hormones, and chopping off things, thats another thing. And any parent that would that to their child, is twisted to me. IMO. You know, a friend of mine had a child that was a girl and decided to transition to a boy. They were so supportive, and they allowed it at 17 if i remember correctly. Breast removal, hormones to grow hair, etc. That was probably 5 or 6 years ago. Not sure how they are doing now, but id love to find out.

You should go inquire about you friends child and how they're doing, it might be illuminating. Parents aren't doing this to harm their kids, they're supporting their kids through this journey to help them.

 

[bird]

Adults over the age of 18 can do whatever they want to their bodies. And if they pay out of pocket. The taxpayer or an insurance company should not bear the burden from the side effects or complications from these surgeries. Im not against people doing whatever they want to their bodies, but not at another's expense. Children cannot transition in any way until they are 18.

If you ride a motorcycle without a helmet and suffer traumatic brain injury then insurance shouldn’t cover your care. If you drive drunk and get in an accident insurance should not cover your care. If you spend years getting tans and develop melanoma insurance shouldn’t cover your care. If you have any surgical procedure and suffer some cxomplication insurance should not cover your care.

Congratulations! Your reasoning, if it can be called that, is stupendously flawed.

 

[TampaJoe]

It's coming right out Trump's own mouth. These are his intentions once he takes power.

I would agree that many of the proposals put forward in this video go too far. I don’t see that it is outlawing transgender but it certainly is focusing most of its attention on therapies for minors and federal funding for transition therapies across the board. I am by no means an expert on the physical or mental consequences of transitions so I would rely upon credible studies in the medical community.

I do think that the procedures should be viewed as would any other medical procedure by the medical community. As to government funding, that has political ramifications. I am reluctant to endorse policy that has permanent physical or mental ramifications on minors especially without the permission of parents. As for other funding, we can debate that but I tend to favor a policy consistent with other such medical policy with some exceptions. I do not favor paying for transitions for illegal migrants nor convicted felons in US prisons.

I also don’t favor transgendered men participating as females in women’s sports for the reasons I previously mentioned.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I truly don't care what a physician says. It goes beyond good ethics to take part in doing this to a child.

Are you a physician or employed in the medical field?