General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (7 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[SystemShock]

Of course there are differences. But also parallels. How about modern Hungary? How about late 90’s Russia? Your problem is the same as many Americans - “it can’t happen here.

The U.S. isn't immune to anything, but there are substantial differences between what happened in Germany and what Trump says he's going to do.

First and foremost, illegal immigrants in the U.S. are breaking the laws of U.S. immigration. That's not for debate, right? Jews in Germany, they were legal residents, who were made illegal not only by the actions of the German government, but by actions of other governments outside Germany, most famously the Polish government.

The "final solution to the Jewish problem" came about because no one would take the Jews from Germany; many weren't citizens of the countries the Germans were deporting them to, and they didn't want the Jews either. Illegal immigrants in the U.S. are citizens of other countries. Their country of origin is not going to reject them.

The general situation in Germany... people were very, very poor. The hyperinflation of the 1920s destroyed the German economy. They were also very pissed over the conditions imposed on Germany after WWI. And Germans, with no actual foundation for the allegations, blamed Jews for a lot of the main problems Germany was suffering from, like the bad economy.

Most of Germany didn't know what was happening in the concentration camps or the death squads that went from overtaken country to overtaken country executing Jews, gypsies, etc... and if they knew, they ignored it; the Nazi

Hungary, if you are referring to the uprising in the 1950's, I don't think we are going to see Russian tanks on U.S. soil. That event had nothing to do with immigration.

Russia in the 90's, are you referring to the dissolution of the Soviet Union? The time when they changed the Russian Constitution?

 

[not2rich]

The U.S. isn't immune to anything, but there are substantial differences between what happened in Germany and what Trump says he's going to do.

First and foremost, illegal immigrants in the U.S. are breaking the laws of U.S. immigration. That's not for debate, right? Jews in Germany, they were legal residents, who were made illegal not only by the actions of the German government, but by actions of other governments outside Germany, most famously the Polish government.

The "final solution to the Jewish problem" came about because no one would take the Jews from Germany; many weren't citizens of the countries the Germans were deporting them to, and they didn't want the Jews either. Illegal immigrants in the U.S. are citizens of other countries. Their country of origin is not going to reject them.

The general situation in Germany... people were very, very poor. The hyperinflation of the 1920s destroyed the German economy. They were also very pissed over the conditions imposed on Germany after WWI. And Germans, with no actual foundation for the allegations, blamed Jews for a lot of the main problems Germany was suffering from, like the bad economy.

Most of Germany didn't know what was happening in the concentration camps or the death squads that went from overtaken country to overtaken country executing Jews, gypsies, etc... and if they knew, they ignored it; the Nazi

Hungary, if you are referring to the uprising in the 1950's, I don't think we are going to see Russian tanks on U.S. soil. That event had nothing to do with immigration.

Russia in the 90's, are you referring to the dissolution of the Soviet Union? The time when they changed the Russian Constitution?

Nobody is saying there is a completely analogous comparison to Nazi Germany - simply that there are certain similarities and parallels. For example, are we not scapegoating people as being existential threats to our country?

I’m not talking about 1950’s Hungary. I’m talking about Viktor Orban’s Hungary.

My reference to Russia was a reference to oligarch rule under a strongman.

 

[not2rich]

The U.S. isn't immune to anything, but there are substantial differences between what happened in Germany and what Trump says he's going to do.

First and foremost, illegal immigrants in the U.S. are breaking the laws of U.S. immigration. That's not for debate, right? Jews in Germany, they were legal residents, who were made illegal not only by the actions of the German government, but by actions of other governments outside Germany, most famously the Polish government.

The "final solution to the Jewish problem" came about because no one would take the Jews from Germany; many weren't citizens of the countries the Germans were deporting them to, and they didn't want the Jews either. Illegal immigrants in the U.S. are citizens of other countries. Their country of origin is not going to reject them.

The general situation in Germany... people were very, very poor. The hyperinflation of the 1920s destroyed the German economy. They were also very pissed over the conditions imposed on Germany after WWI. And Germans, with no actual foundation for the allegations, blamed Jews for a lot of the main problems Germany was suffering from, like the bad economy.

Most of Germany didn't know what was happening in the concentration camps or the death squads that went from overtaken country to overtaken country executing Jews, gypsies, etc... and if they knew, they ignored it; the Nazi

Hungary, if you are referring to the uprising in the 1950's, I don't think we are going to see Russian tanks on U.S. soil. That event had nothing to do with immigration.

Russia in the 90's, are you referring to the dissolution of the Soviet Union? The time when they changed the Russian Constitution?

And to add…

If mass deportations of “illegals “ are in the works, do it. That’s what the people voted for.

But this country is nowhere close to the economic suffering of post-WWI Germany. At least they have that excuse. The vast majority of Trump supporters in this country have never known real sacrifice or hardship. We are soft, entitled people. What’s our excuse - the cost of eggs doubled?

 

[J-DONK]

You are free to believe whatever you want Donk. Everybody has an opinion. You have yours. I have mine. Neither will change the results of the election. So you can speculate about what could have happened on Jan 6 all day long. What wont change is that on Jan 6 2020, Biden officially received enough electoral votes to be elected President.

It also wont change the result of the most recent election.

I don't need to take it on faith known facts. I mean you can walk outside Joe, and say "I believe the sky is green." It doesn't make it true. The same way it won't make your belief that Trump wasn't trying to overthrow the government true.

Also, your belief in a green sky is not the same as walking outside and looking at a blue sky. There is all kinds of documented evidence of Trump's attempt to overthrow the government.

Stop with the false equivalence.

 

[TampaJoe]

I don't need to take it on faith known facts. I mean you can walk outside Joe, and say "I believe the sky is green." It doesn't make it true. The same way it won't make your belief that Trump wasn't trying to overthrow the government true.

Also, your belief in a green sky is not the same as walking outside and looking at a blue sky. There is all kinds of documented evidence of Trump's attempt to overthrow the government.

Stop with the false equivalence.

You are free to believe whatever you please in this country. I am not here to change your mind. Its not a false equivalency to me.

 

[el caliente]

If this is true, this should be the last election cycle that those people are making decisions.

 

[Infoman]

If this is true, this should be the last election cycle that those people are making decisions.

This will be the last election cycle in which the legacy news plays a major role...

People that used to rely on it no longer trust them, and the next generation would rather get their information from Podcasts, social media, and streaming sources that provide access to actual discussion from real people (whether they agree with the content or not)... and not just canned repeated partisan talking points....

Every legacy media outlet is in the toilet from a subscriber and ratings standpoint, and trending worse... They will either adapt to the new model, or die off... I am fine with either...

If nothing else good comes from this election... this would be something I'll celebrate to break the cycle of stupid'n the masses.

 

[jdn9201]

And to add…

If mass deportations of “illegals “ are in the works, do it. That’s what the people voted for.

But this country is nowhere close to the economic suffering of post-WWI Germany. At least they have that excuse. The vast majority of Trump supporters in this country have never known real sacrifice or hardship. We are soft, entitled people. What’s our excuse - the cost of eggs doubled?

I have a friend who works in IT. We have a strained relationship because of differing views (she’s a Trumper, anti vaxxer, etc.) She blames immigrants for why she can’t get a good permanent role. Her last was a couple of years ago and she’s bounced around doing contract work ever since.

I know there is a big H1B presence in the tech space but most migrants coming in don’t have the skill set to take a tech job. Also what she does is pretty basic - answering tickets and providing access to various internal tech programs employees use. She also doesn’t have a filter and thinks she can say whatever she wants without it ticking someone off. Not exactly the best personality to get along with others. She also lives in the sticks and keeps demanding fully remote work which we know isn’t as popular anymore. And finally she’s not that good at her job…..but yeah it’s an immigrants fault she can’t get work smh

 

[Poppy]

What position, exactly? Every collegiate sport has their own guidelines, specific to that sport. People of good faith are working on policies that will be fair for everyone.

Just from the very fact that you seem to think this is a simple black and white issue tells me you don’t know much about it. Like at all.

Its completely black and white to me. If you are a male, that wants to be a female, you can't play in women's sports. You have an unfair advantage. It completely ruins women's sports. Totally. I don't have a problem with trans people at all. I work with two. They are great people.

Policies to be fair to everyone? There is no fairness to be had with that subject. It's cut and dry. You can throw out any arguement you want to me. If you want it to be fair, we can make all sports gender neutral, and women will become irrelevant in professional sports. So, I have thought about it, and it makes zero sense.

 

[bird]

Its completely black and white to me. If you are a male, that wants to be a female, you can't play in women's sports. You have an unfair advantage. It completely ruins women's sports. Totally. I don't have a problem with trans people at all. I work with two. They are great people.

Policies to be fair to everyone? There is no fairness to be had with that subject. It's cut and dry. You can throw out any arguement you want to me. If you want it to be fair, we can make all sports gender neutral, and women will become irrelevant in professional sports. So, I have thought about it, and it makes zero sense.

Please explain the processes pre- and post-puberty that are involved in transition. This includes the impact of hormones. I will give you a little clue, biological males taking females hormones lose muscle mass. M to F transgender is not a biological male putting on women’s clothing.

Your second to last sentence is meaningless. Beyond that? There are not thousands of biological males clamoring to participate in women’s sports. The instances are miniscule.

 

[Ted]

Its completely black and white to me. If you are a male, that wants to be a female, you can't play in women's sports. You have an unfair advantage. It completely ruins women's sports. Totally. I don't have a problem with trans people at all. I work with two. They are great people.

Policies to be fair to everyone? There is no fairness to be had with that subject. It's cut and dry. You can throw out any arguement you want to me. If you want it to be fair, we can make all sports gender neutral, and women will become irrelevant in professional sports. So, I have thought about it, and it makes zero sense.

The body governing world swimming has done the most comprehensive job of defining the criteria needing to be met for allowing transgender athletes to compete in women's events.

++++++++++++

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1106173020/swimming-bans-transgender-women

Under the policy, transgender women must show that "they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later," a move that effectively eliminates their eligibility to compete in the women's category. Tanner Stages describe the physical changes people undergo during puberty.

+++++++++++

 

[Huntn]

In fairness, the dems have to win the popular vote by a few percent to have any hope at winning, so the Republican winning the popular vote by 1%+ is not tight by any means, and probably a blowout by any objective measure.

The winner of the election is never decided by more than 1/3 of the total population, so none of us should ever be claiming that the election results reflect a majority of the people, but by any objective electoral standard, this was a blowout.

Trump's numbers are pretty much the same as Obama in 2012.

Regardless of the metric, from a rational standpoint, a 1% win is minuscule to me. Word is that MTG wants to declare a mandate based on 1%. This is an error imo.. It also strikes me that based on the reality, winner take all is a losing strategy for our future. We’re continuously one election away from a breakdown. With Proportional representation there might be a path forward, but that will never happen in this country without great calamity.

 

[Huntn]

In fairness, the dems have to win the popular vote by a few percent to have any hope at winning, so the Republican winning the popular vote by 1%+ is not tight by any means, and probably a blowout by any objective measure.

The winner of the election is never decided by more than 1/3 of the total population, so none of us should ever be claiming that the election results reflect a majority of the people, but by any objective electoral standard, this was a blowout.

Trump's numbers are pretty much the same as Obama in 2012.

Regardless of the political metric, 1% is minuscule imo. MTG thinks this is a mandate for the forces of evil. As divided as we are, a winner take all system puts us one election away from losing all progress, and now we certainly are in danger of losing our democracy.

As divided as we are, a proportional representation would provide a path forward. But that will never happen in this country without a major calamity, and I’ll argue that a major calamity is what is required to get us past poor decision-making one way or the other. Collectively, we need more people engaged, or we need to break down and fall apart. Something, because what we have is not working. I predict in the near future we’re going to reach a point where are the environment will make our decisions for us.

 

[Sendai]

Please explain the processes pre- and post-puberty that are involved in transition. This includes the impact of hormones. I will give you a little clue, biological males taking females hormones lose muscle mass. M to F transgender is not a biological male putting on women’s clothing.

Your second to last sentence is meaningless. Beyond that? There are not thousands of biological males clamoring to participate in women’s sports. The instances are miniscule.

“

Transgender women may retain a greater heart lung capacity​

06 Oct 2022

---

According to a study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, heart/lung capacity and muscle strength in transgender women exceeds that of their cisgender peers, even after many years of hormone therapy.

”

News Article Holder | Society for Endocrinology

News Article Holder This page will generate the the news article from the ID supplied in the URL. You can adjust the side column for all the news articles in the 'side column' tab above

www.endocrinology.org

 

[coldseat]

Its completely black and white to me. If you are a male, that wants to be a female, you can't play in women's sports. You have an unfair advantage. It completely ruins women's sports. Totally. I don't have a problem with trans people at all. I work with two. They are great people.

Policies to be fair to everyone? There is no fairness to be had with that subject. It's cut and dry. You can throw out any arguement you want to me. If you want it to be fair, we can make all sports gender neutral, and women will become irrelevant in professional sports. So, I have thought about it, and it makes zero sense.

The body governing world swimming has done the most comprehensive job of defining the criteria needing to be met for allowing transgender athletes to compete in women's events.

++++++++++++

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1106173020/swimming-bans-transgender-women

Under the policy, transgender women must show that "they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later," a move that effectively eliminates their eligibility to compete in the women's category. Tanner Stages describe the physical changes people undergo during puberty.

+++++++++++

“

Transgender women may retain a greater heart lung capacity​

06 Oct 2022

---

According to a study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, heart/lung capacity and muscle strength in transgender women exceeds that of their cisgender peers, even after many years of hormone therapy.

”

News Article Holder | Society for Endocrinology

News Article Holder This page will generate the the news article from the ID supplied in the URL. You can adjust the side column for all the news articles in the 'side column' tab above

www.endocrinology.org

Are you all okay with Trump taking away the rights for any person in America to transition and be transgendered? Are you okay with Trump taking away the rights of transgendered adults to take hormones or have sex reassignment surgery? Are you all okay with Trump not allowing states to recognize transgendered people as such?

While you all are arguing about something that effects less than 1% of women's sports, Trump is proposing the wholesale outlawing of transgender people everywhere in America. Is that acceptable to you? Can you muster up enough concern to be worried about the plight of transgender people in our society given the current environment of hate around America?

Or sense it not you and transgender people are iky, you don't care?

 

[TampaJoe]

Regardless of the metric, from a rational standpoint, a 1% win is minuscule to me. Word is that MTG wants to declare a mandate based on 1%. This is an error imo.. It also strikes me that based on the reality, winner take all is a losing strategy for our future. We’re continuously one election away from a breakdown, like With proportional representation there might be a path forward, but that will never happen in this country without great calamity.

I agree in that there is some kind of real mandate in a country still so evenly divided along ideological lines. If anything the parties should be looking for things they can agree upon and work together to accomplish. Immigration and the border, shoring up SSI and Medicare. Both parties agree something needs to be done in both areas.

These are not marginal issues and need bi partisan agreement to work effectively. They should not be foisted on the country by a narrow party line majority.

People need to believe that government can work again for everyone and not just to benefit one party over the other. I can remember the days when if your side lost the election people didnt fear that they would be railroaded. Political contests are one thing. Political warfare is quite another and I think counter prodctive overall.

This country is truly a house divided. I dont see that as in the long term interest of the country. I would caution the GOP not to over reach. That always comes back to bite you.

 

[Poppy]

The body governing world swimming has done the most comprehensive job of defining the criteria needing to be met for allowing transgender athletes to compete in women's events.

++++++++++++

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1106173020/swimming-bans-transgender-women

Under the policy, transgender women must show that "they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later," a move that effectively eliminates their eligibility to compete in the women's category. Tanner Stages describe the physical changes people undergo during puberty.

+++++++++++

How ridiculous is that

 

[Poppy]

Are you all okay with Trump taking away the rights for any person in America to transition and be transgendered? Are you okay with Trump taking away the rights of transgendered adults to take hormones or have sex reassignment surgery? Are you all okay with Trump not allowing states to recognize transgendered people as such?

While you all are arguing about something that effects less than 1% of women's sports, Trump is proposing the wholesale outlawing of transgender people everywhere in America. Is that acceptable to you? Can you muster up enough concern to be worried about the plight of transgender people in our society given the current environment of hate around America?

Or sense it not you and transgender people are iky, you don't care?

Adults over the age of 18 can do whatever they want to their bodies. And if they pay out of pocket. The taxpayer or an insurance company should not bear the burden from the side effects or complications from these surgeries. Im not against people doing whatever they want to their bodies, but not at another's expense. Children cannot transition in any way until they are 18.