General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (5 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Infoman]

Did they give you a valid reason? If not, then they are stupid, ignorant, or immoral. Me and dozens of others have given valid reasons to vote for Kamala. I'm still waiting for the valid reason that justifies a vote for Trump.

No... and neither have you IMO.... You gave me the same stuff they gave me.... just from the opposite side of The Upside-down Partisan World. Again, I did not... and have never voted for him... I made that clear.... No idea what makes someone else justify something....

Also no idea why anyone wouldn't want to completely scrap this 2 party system and have a "masked signer" kind of election... where billion dollar donors, special interest groups, lobbyist, and think tanks are taken out of the equation... and we vote for the smartest, brightest, talented and most qualified person committed to delivering for all Americans.... not just half of them. I know... Novel and Utopian thinking that we simply can't produce that in this country full of such exceptional people.... wonder why...

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I’ll give you one - because men and minorities are tired of being ignored by the left. Go read up on Barron Trump’s idea to push his dad to go on podcasts that had massive social media following. Harris made a HUGE mistake by not doing a Rogan interview. How little of a voting block can one think when the only reason the left gave for men to vote for Harris is “Trump is bad! Think of the women in your life who may need an abortion”. Nope. Not good enough

Here's the counter to that -- what policies of Harris are targeting men and minorities? When she proposes a child tax credit, do men and minorities not benefit from that? Would men and minorities not benefit from an expansion of housing supply? Is she proposing anything similar to an abortion ban only on something that effects men or minorities?

I get that what you're saying is that she didn't cater to them, and that's correct. The assumption is that since there aren't policies or laws on the books or historically that were designed to hurt men, therefore we don't need to spend a lot of time doing things specifically for that group. Which of course then makes people in that group feel left out, particularly when they might be struggling in a way that aligns closely with that male identity.

However, when I think what Lapaz was getting at, is there specifically a policy that is either by intention or just reality designed to hurt men proposed by the Harris campaign? Not a feelings thing, but actual concrete policies...

 

[bird]

I am asking you to answer the question... Nothing more.

You did so.... No one is saying he isn't an butt crevasse, or isn't someone that shouldn't be able to hold the title of Leader of the Free World... That's not the question I asked. He already has the Job, and he is that guy - Like it or not...

The question was... If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing? I.e. Claim like is gospel that everything we don't like about the person or the policy is either Nazi Hitler Fascism or Marxist Communist Socialism.

The question is meaningless. Why? Because it is not about Trump’s actions once he is inaugurated. It is about the people behind him. JD Vance is a helluva lot worse. Roger Stone, Stephen Miller et al are all smarter than Trump. And they know how to pull his strings. They will play to his vanity. They will play to his greed and ego. There has never been a president that I know of that is as emotionally and mentally frail and damaged as Trump. That simply makes him more dangerous. It is entirely possible that he would simply return to grifting but that is unlikely due to those around him. Elon Musk joining on a call to Zelenskyy underscores that. What foreign policy experience does that bag of pus have?

 

[not2rich]

Again, none of that is fact... It's is a POV.... One almost specifically derived from what News / Propaganda / Company you ingest or keep...

And calling ~70M people - (or a substantial number of them) - On either side... Stupid for having to make a binary pre-selected choice between one or the other after being bombarded with divisionary poisonous rhetoric - Is not only not going to fix the situation... It's going to push them further in the other direction. It has to stop.

You mean name-calling and condescension doesn't work at winning people over?

 

[coldseat]

No one answered my question... Just more "what about ism" and answering a question with a question (which is why I hate this system). I have addressed all that already... It's a shirt show...

The question was...

If in 12 months... We do not live in a Police State Dictatorship, where Democracy no longer exists, where there is a nation wide ban on abortion, where political opponents are jailed, where every migrant both legal and illegal is deported, etc etc etc... And the US just sort of just keeps being what it has been... Do any of you change your mind at all when presented with that evidence? Or do you just keep doing what you're doing?

There are a lot of receipts here... An both sides have repeatedly shown the ability to Lie, Say whatever it takes to sway voters, Change a Stance when what they say doesn't poll well, and never deliver on what they promise...

Again if none of that happens... Does it change your mind at all?

Your premise and question are flawed. Democrats never predicted what Trump will do during his second administration. Democrats said "Look at what Trump is saying he will do. Look at what those around him are saying he will do. Look at Project 2025 and the people around Trump that put it together. What Trump and those around him are saying they will do is authoritarian, Nazi like and will turn us into a police state."

If Trump doesn't do those things, then he and the people around him lied. I or any other Democrat supporter would have no reason to say we were wrong about anything.

 

[bird]

I’ll sort of answer your question. I’m a longtime lurker - 41, female with two kids who voted Republican my entire life until 2020. I was and still am worried about Trump winning, but I think people need to calm down. He’s not Hitler. I find it ironic that people are so panicked about things he has said when the number one thing he does is lie. I think the majority of what he said was just whatever he thought he needed to say to win.

Also, people have the attention span of a gnat. People are loyal to him because they think he benefits them. Even uneducated voters. They will all turn on him on a dime when they don’t see the benefit anymore.

Rich people have their wealth tied up in stock - especially Musk. All of this talk about crashing the economy is just talk because the value of Tesla goes poof if no one can afford to buy Teslas anymore.

The BIG problem is one no one is talking about - our national debt. Financially speaking we are bankrupt. If I was sitting in a country wanting to take us down I’d be doing everything I could to get the reserve currency off of the USD. That would do more damage to us than a nuke would. No one has the guts to even say it, but taxes need to go up and government spending needs to go down. I actually hope the project 2025 stuff about government shrinkage is true. The problem is no one on the world stage cares, then all of a sudden one day they will and it’s going to be ugly. The cuts we are going to have to face will be so large that most of the government we know exists today will have no money left. We’ve lost the ability to problem solve. We can’t talk to anyone who disagrees with us and come to a solution on anything. The giant elephant in the room isn’t Trump - it’s the debt.

The status of the dollar as reserve currency is far more important than the debt. As long as we control our currency any debt issued in our currency is less of a problem. Furthermore the bulk of our debt is held internally.

The reserve currency status is far more critical. If the dollar is removed as reserve currency buyers for our debt will becoming less willing to buy. Of course, there literally is no currency as of now which can replace the dollar. PRC faces severe demographic issues among other things. The Euro is too unstable do to the fact that too many countries in the EU are a drain on it.

The idea of a BRICS currency is lunacy. Russia IS broke. Brazil is a train wreck. India is too busy competing against the PRC.

 

[Infoman]

You mean name-calling and condescension doesn't work at winning people over?

Not last time I checked.... In fact, it pushes them further away in my experience...

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Not last time I checked.... In fact, it pushes them further away in my experience...

Trump won... and he does it a lot. Way more than Harris did -- so doesn't that mean Democrats should do it more? The winning strategy was one of constant grievances, name calling and so on....

I agree I want less of it, but this was a bad election to pick to say it doesn't work.

 

[Infoman]

Trump won... and he does it a lot. Way more than Harris did -- so doesn't that mean Democrats should do it more? The winning strategy was one of constant grievances, name calling and so on....

I agree I want less of it, but this was a bad election to pick to say it doesn't work.

Who picked this one... I have been saying this forever... It's hardly the first time.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Who picked this one... I have been saying this forever... It's hardly the first time.

Sorry, I guess to be more clear, we're doing a breakdown of this election and this was a point you brought up in respect to what the Democrats could do better. But it doesn't seem to fit. The election did not go to the more moderate person. It did not go to the more civil campaign.

Trump won by ratcheting up the rhetoric. By demonizing his opponent more often, more stridently and never, ever offering clarifications.

It basically seems like you are asking the Democrats to be absolutely perfect. To never give into a moment of anger, even if they clarify later. It isn't enough for them to talk about unity, and promising to add Republicans to their cabinet, and so on. They have to constantly make sure to never hurt anyone's feelings, no matter what they said first...

But the winning strategy did none of that. It leaned into the anger, the resentment and the name calling.

 

[Lapaz]

No, not correct. Rigging primaries is not a threat to America. It is a threat to the party. If the candidate that the party pushes is good, then it doesn’t matter.

 

[Lapaz]

I’ll give you one - because men and minorities are tired of being ignored by the left. Go read up on Barron Trump’s idea to push his dad to go on podcasts that had massive social media following. Harris made a HUGE mistake by not doing a Rogan interview. How little of a voting block can one think when the only reason the left gave for men to vote for Harris is “Trump is bad! Think of the women in your life who may need an abortion”. Nope. Not good enough

Thank you for trying to offer a valid reason, but it doesn’t make sense. Do you think it is a valid reason to vote for Trump because she didn’t do Rogan? BTW, she did agree, but wanted him to come to her. Regardless, I can’t understand how that is valid. Maybe you can explain how men and minorities were ignored. What is Trump going to do for men and minorities that is valid?

 

[Lapaz]

You mean name-calling and condescension doesn't work at winning people over?

Trump is the most condescending person I know and calls more names than anyone I know. Harris called Trump a fascist, but he had called her a fascist, low IQ, and many other things.

 

[coldseat]

Democrats didn't rig the primary for Harris. Joe Biden ran and won the primary. He then decided to withdraw after the primary was completed and the delegates voted for the only logical choice. None of that is rigging a primary.

And btw, Kamala had strong support from Democrats. Republicans talking points always seem to become wildly held belief even when the are objectively untrue.

 

[Lapaz]

No... and neither have you IMO.... You gave me the same stuff they gave me.... just from the opposite side of The Upside-down Partisan World. Again, I did not... and have never voted for him... I made that clear.... No idea what makes someone else justify something....

Also no idea why anyone wouldn't want to completely scrap this 2 party system and have a "masked signer" kind of election... where billion dollar donors, special interest groups, lobbyist, and think tanks are taken out of the equation... and we vote for the smartest, brightest, talented and most qualified person committed to delivering for all Americans.... not just half of them. I know... Novel and Utopian thinking that we simply can't produce that in this country full of such exceptional people.... wonder why...

So they didn’t have a valid reason, yet voted for him, so that makes them ignorant, stupid or immoral. There is only one reason I respect and that is anti-abortion. I don’t agree, but understand it.

I have given some of my reasons to support Harris, but I have far more reasons to oppose Trump. I like Harris’ tax plan, immigration plan, support for Ukraine, and expansion of drug negotiating. I’m not highly opposed to any proposal she had, but I’m highly opposed to Trump’s plans. I think most people that voted for Harris can give valid reasons, that’s why there aren’t 2 sides.

I would love reform of voting system to allow more parties, but that is not the choice we had. We had a good choice and an atrocious choice, and America chose the atrocious candidate.

 

[not2rich]

Trump is the most condescending person I know and calls more names than anyone I know. Harris called Trump a fascist, but he had called her a fascist, low IQ, and many other things.

I was more talking about everyday Americans and how we talk to or about each other. People like us talking to those we disagree with politically, and vice versa.

Why Trump seems to benefit from it (or at least not be punished for it) is probably a different discussion.

 

[Lapaz]

I was more talking about everyday Americans and how we talk to or about each other. People like us talking to those we disagree with politically, and vice versa.

Why Trump seems to benefit from it (or at least not be punished for it) is probably a different discussion.

Harris was not condescending. Biden was until he retracted it. Trump was often condescending.

Trump is just like the president in Idiocracy. He has converted America into WWE. Talk tough and appeal to the lowest of our nature.

 

[bird]

Heard this one from my wife. It apparently came from Germany.

What borders on stupidity?

Canada and Mexico.